TR Naval Programs

A

adenl

Guest
I wonder how all these naval developments are going to fit with one another in the naval doctrine. There seems to be a too much of overlap in capabilities and roles between the various ULAQ variants, FAC, Tuzla's, modernized Barbaros and Ada's. Add the anti-ship SOM variants, coastal Atmaca batteries, MRAShM carried by UAV's and helicopters and the Aegean is going to be a no-go zone.

Especially the Tuzla's are going to be undergunned boats while they are in the weight category of a FAC. They are too large and heavy for their role and need to be equipped with more capable weaponry than just some guns and depth charges to fully exploit their size. Perhaps a MLU with LW torpedoes and missiles will change their capability and role in the near future?
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,501
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,876
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I am sorry

I'm sorry, I didn't mean physically sinking, I meant conceptually not being useful anymore.

FYI: I am not a shipbuilder but I lived on the see for some of my life.
Conceptually you are right but imo simple usv + uuv combination will occupy a few decades.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,683
Reactions
7 7,389
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Conceptually you are right but imo simple usv + uuv combination will occupy a few decades.
Let me tell you something: Technology development is progressing exponentially, that speed can hit the seas sooner than most people think. From my major area of interest which is aviation I can say that the progression happened bewilderingly fast in the last couple of years. I have started trying to turn my fascination with aviation into products like a decade ago and I was designing incrementally better flying machines that achieved things better than its predecessors. I have made half a dozen designs like that and then a crazy man Mark Moore emerged from the bushes (which is NASA) and put forward the pinnacle of aviation, the end state of the quest for the perfect flying machine the eVTOL where the vehicle takes off vertically and flies forward like a plane and does it on electric battery. Quietly and affordably. The entire world had to follow his steps as any lesser tech wouldn't cut it anymore. And lastly yesterday a major American airline company has announced that they will buy 200 flying cars to shuttle their airline passengers from the city center to the airports. All of this is happening in 6 years from 2017 to 2023. It has to happen faster and I think it will.
 
Last edited:
T

Turko

Guest
If the semi-submersible boats were too complicated, even narco dealers wouldn't have used them.
Considering technological support of national defence industry , it wouldnt be a big deal. Anyway an another semi-submersible example from Canada.
1613159486352.png

At the bottom a torpedo could be applied.


 

Mustafa27

Committed member
Messages
215
Reactions
2 588
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Interview regarding ULAQ from 3 days ago done by savunmasanayist.

Google Translate:

Turkey's first Armed Unmanned Vessel (Sida) ULAQ, developed by ARES Shipyard with Meteksan Defense. As you will remember; The ULAQ was launched on October 28, 2020.

Meteksan Defense Deputy General Manager Dr. Erdal TORUN and General Manager of ARES Shipyard Özgün Utku ALANÇ answered the questions of SavunmaSanayiST about ULAQ Armed Unmanned Marine Vehicle after the launch.

SavunmaSanayiST : During the launch, a SİDA Prototype equipped with CİRİT and L-UMTAS Missiles welcomed us. However, it is known that the ULAQ will also have different configurations and even be equipped with an Anti-Ship Missile. What kind of planning is there? When will the Anti-Ship model launch the Anti-Ship Missile?

Özgün Utku Alanç: ULAQ is the name of our Unmanned Watercraft series. So it's actually a brand. ULAQ brand has different models. The Armed Unmanned Marine Vehicle (SİDA) is our prototype model. Besides; There is also a model that we are planning to equip with an Anti-Ship Missile, there is a firefighting boat model, a minesweeper / hunting boat, a submarine defense warfare (DSH) boat… All of these designs are at the preliminary design stage.

"When will an anti-ship model launch a missile?" The answer to the question is actually something that will be determined by the end user. We activated the SİDA prototype during the launch. I am sure we will complete it successfully. Then, if the end user tells us, "Let's throw a torpedo, throw an Anti-Ship Missile or not throw at all, let's do electronic warfare"; We wanted to give the message that we are ready in terms of a preliminary design for all of them.

Of course, while giving this ready message, the designs there are not empty. In other words, the platform we plan to use in the anti-ship model that can fire such a missile system is a platform that is 2 - 2.5 times the size of the ULAQ. When you double in size, you increase 3-4 times in displacement. In addition, the structural materials are different. While we use advanced composite materials in SİDA, we are now turning to aluminum in the anti-ship model. Therefore, these preliminary designs also have a certain infrastructure.

Turkish Navy and ULAQ​

SavunmaSanayiST : What is the request of the Turkish Navy regarding ULAQ?

Özgün Utku Alanç: We are in constant contact with our Naval Forces Command. If the Turkish Naval Forces chose ULAQ, it would be our greatest pleasure, and export would be much easier when the Navy chose. We have seen an example of this in UAVs.

SavunmaSanayiST: Since it is an unmanned system, communication is of high importance here. In the communication section, the control of the platform is generally focused on, but what kind of a path is being followed regarding the communication of the ammunition to be used on the platform ?

Dr. Erdal TORUN:
Modern armies tend to use such autonomous systems. Our army already has a modern inventory. Therefore, we inform the Turkish Armed Forces, the Ministry of National Defense and the Defense Industry Presidency in each of our works. Of course, we develop the product with our own resources, but we believe they will make use of it after the product is released.

If we come to your question; In the current SİDA prototype, we establish data communication over C-Band in a way that communicates Line-of-Sight (LOS) . This stands out as a system resistant to electronic warfare. Of course, in order for an autonomous system to be able to contact an area such as the Sea of Islands without data loss, different solutions must be put forward. Accordingly, our solutions for satellite communication (SatCom) will also come.

On the other hand, in order to get an effective efficiency from such systems, you need to use it in a network and integrated with many platforms. In this sense, you should be able to manage and manage more than one unmanned marine vehicle in a lot of logic, in contact with manned or unmanned vehicles, other ships, combat management systems, and operations centers on land. To achieve this, we will establish a tactical data link and establish an uninterrupted communication infrastructure. This is an issue that is among the works of Meteksan Defense for different platforms, and it is also included in our roadmap for ULAQ.

SavunmaSanayiST: When we look at the weapon load of the prototype product, the CİRİT Missile and L-UMTAS stand out. This can be quite dangerous for an enemy torpedo boat. Also, the radar cross-sectional area (RKA) is much lower than that of a torpedo boat or frigate. How do you evaluate this?

'ULAQ SİDA is unlikely to leave a radar mark'​

Özgün Utku Alanç: Due to the current conjuncture, we came to the fore with the aim of the Sea of Islands. This situation was quite effective in the selection of guided missiles.

The Sea of Islands is a region with many rocks. Here, we aimed not only to put a guided missile, but also to receive images from there and transmit them instantly, that is, to make reconnaissance / outpost and to collect intelligence. However, he had to be capable of hitting when he saw it. L-UMTAS is very powerful in this sense. The fact that CİRİT is also more in number is very deterrent for a torpedo boat on the opposite side. It is very, very unlikely that a platform in this profile will leave a mark on the radar. Especially in the Sea of Islands.

ULAQ SİDA's Locality Rate​

Savunmasanayist : Turkey, together with ULAQ Armed Unmanned Vessel (Sida) is assuming a pioneering role in the field. Therefore, it can be concluded that the export market will also be contested. Known embargo against Turkey in the field of critical subsystems. What is the locality rate of ULAQ?

Özgün Utku Alanç: In the prototype boat, we used a small number of foreign parts to prove the concept, and these were commercial products that did not require permission for military use. However, we are also in contact with local producers in order to localize the remaining systems. As of the stage we have reached, there will be no parts left that we will have to buy from abroad in the mass production stage.

Dr. Erdal TORUN: Let me add as follows; In fact, the talents and achievements we use now are based on systems that we do without being dependent on the outside. We use them in unmanned aerial vehicles, missile systems and ammunition systems. Both communication systems, navigation systems and mission computers… All of these are currently actively used in the field and are the main subsystems that will also be used in ULAQ. We build on this the SİDA logic. What is peculiar to us here is that all the communication systems we use are domestic, national, resistant to electronic warfare and have proven themselves.

At Meteksan Defense, there are mission computers that are used and tested for air platforms that can manage and manage many subsystems. In ULAQ, we will use mission computers that we designed and produced by us. Again, our anti-jamming (electronic warfare resistant) products will also be mounted on the platform.

DefenseSanayiST: When will ULAQ Armed Unmanned Marine Vehicle perform the first test firing with CİRİT and / or L-UMTAS Missiles?

Özgün Utku Alanç: During the first quarter of 2021, we will carry out intensive test / experience activities related to remote command and autonomy. A NOTAM should be issued with the permission of the Ministry of National Defense regarding the shooting. We aim to complete the firing tests in the first half of the year, following the approval of the permits and the official confirmation of field availability.

SavunmaSanayiST: Thank you very much for taking the time for us.
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,247
Reactions
141 16,264
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
@Ardabas34
“Can someone share the foreign equivalents of ULAQ? I want to compare it to them.”

There are no equivalents that I know of. These are not standard sized production units. There will be a number of boats with different sizes and different complements of armament To serve different end uses. They will form an attack group.
There may be one with Sungur and L-Umtas ER only to attack closer range ships and helicopters.
There may be one with a complement of 4 or 8 MRAShM or Atmaca missiles for longer range attack missions.
There may be one with ASW rockets for subs.
There may be one carrying AKYA or ORKA torpedoes.
There may be one carrying TRG122 guided missiles for land attack

So any number and any combination of these forming an attack group to make waters a no-go area is the idea. In short with one frigate, corvette or LST controlling a group of these like drones will give flexibility and fire power of multiple frigates.
 
Last edited:

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,857
Reactions
6 18,707
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Overtime the ulaq is going to evolve.

Unmanned warfare is already the reality. Crazy how something was seen as fiction becoming a reality.

I cant even keep up with defence news because the nature of warfare is evolving at such a fast pace. Could the infantry soldier be a relic maybe or maybe not. So many questions.

Engineers and scientists are now the backbone of armies.
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,247
Reactions
141 16,264
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Must be hard to detect on radar.
Not just hard! But just about impossible according to the Meteksan general manager for defence products.
Quote:
It is very, very unlikely that a platform in this profile will leave a mark on the radar. Especially in the Sea of Islands.
unquote.

pls see #129
 

Hexciter

Experienced member
Messages
2,575
Reactions
4 11,451
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Hard to detect & nearly impossible to distinguish from a civilian speed-craft without visual confirmation
 
Last edited:

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,247
Reactions
141 16,264
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Yalman is a CWIS system that Roketsan has developed. It works with Umtas, Lumtas, Cirit and Sungur.
Of these Umtas and Lumtas are 1.3 Mach in speed. (Copies of hellfire in essence)
Cirit and Sungur are 2.2 and 2.4 Mach missiles accordingly. (Hydra and Stinger derivatives)
So they will stop incoming missile threats as well.
Very logical move for Roketsan!
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,501
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,876
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

The article reveals valuable information and regarding to capabilities of HIZIR TKAS (torpedo detection, wake homing torpedo detection, array passive sonar), DUFAS (Low frequency active sonar) and allegedly about an OPV project which was signed in 2020 November.
It is known DUFAS was aimed for TF-2000 but expected for I-Class or Ada-Class, as well as that alleged class of OPV (contract signed for 2 hulls as stated by ibrahim sunnetci, but according to my hearing it will cover higher numbers ,+4 optional)
The OPV possibly will be lighter variant of Ada-Class focusing more on the patrol duties.
 

Tornadoss

Contributor
Messages
1,376
Reactions
4 2,624
Nation of residence
Czechia
Nation of origin
Turkey
What is the status of Hazar radar? Is it still in development or passed to the testing phase? Is there any info?
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom