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Spook

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One Question remains, where are the 3 other I-Class Milgems ? They were supposed to begin building soon after TCG ISTANBUL launched in 01/2021. I hope there is no monetary issue.

TCG-Istanbul will go through extensive testing as it the first ship its class. Many new systems being integrated for the first time. TCG-Istanbul has been under construction since 2017. It design, systems been revised few times. From MK41 to MDAS etc. Hopefully if everything goes alright it will enter service by 2023. For a high tech ship like this 4-5 year integration, tests is not bad. Next ship should start being built this or next year and enter service 2024. Rest will start being built with 1 year interval, enter service 2025, 2026.

Also Hopefully in 2027, TF-2027 Air Defence Destroyer will enter service. First ship should start being built soon.
 

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6008970c5542830a2c9e26e0.jpg
 
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TheInsider

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After the US embargo for phalanx, Mk41 VLS, Harpoon, fire control radar, torpedo tubes, and a few other subsystems the ship is redesigned and projects for national counterparts are launched. We can expect tests to start next year and the first I class will enter into the inventory in the second half of 2023
 

Anmdt

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One Question remains, where are the 3 other I-Class Milgems ? They were supposed to begin building soon after TCG ISTANBUL launched in 01/2021. I hope there is no monetary issue.
Wait for first one to mature and then launch all 3 at once.
In the past; I Class = Ada Class + 16 Cells
Now; I Class =/ Ada Class + 16 Cells.
Now it is, Ada Class +
- S Band Aesa volume search + X band Aesa radar.
- MIDLAS /EDAS
- Hisar-O Rf + G40 + Göktüğ
- IRST
- Sensor fusion
- Refurbished New mast with additional storage space
- LFAS
- Domestic Helicopter arrest and traverse system.
- A few more surprises.
 

Test7

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One Question remains, where are the 3 other I-Class Milgems ? They were supposed to begin building soon after TCG ISTANBUL launched in 01/2021. I hope there is no monetary issue.

Ships built first are the most problematic. For example, there are many technical differences between the F-511 and the F-514. Today, many ships of the Ada class can be built at the same time. Because the Ada class was technically perfected over time. I personally would not want to start the construction of other ships before the cruise tests of the I class begin. Because a lot of technical feedback will come in the first cruise test. Waiting is tiring but necessary. I wish all the systems to be used on the ship were ready and we could speed up the building.
 

Saithan

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Ships built first are the most problematic. For example, there are many technical differences between the F-511 and the F-514. Today, many ships of the Ada class can be built at the same time. Because the Ada class was technically perfected over time. I personally would not want to start the construction of other ships before the cruise tests of the I class begin. Because a lot of technical feedback will come in the first cruise test. Waiting is tiring but necessary. I wish all the systems to be used on the ship were ready and we could speed up the building.
This is also one another reason for why I believe we'd be better off having 1-2 more Ada class Corvette. Especially considering the existing vessels are like 40+ years old. If the first I-class frigates delivery is going to be delayed 2-3 years we're already behind in Naval power. Who's to say we won't have a war on our doorstep within those years.

Wouldn't it be better to have a few excess vessels that gives us room to laze about than always being on the edge.
 

Test7

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This is also one another reason for why I believe we'd be better off having 1-2 more Ada class Corvette. Especially considering the existing vessels are like 40+ years old. If the first I-class frigates delivery is going to be delayed 2-3 years we're already behind in Naval power. Who's to say we won't have a war on our doorstep within those years.

Wouldn't it be better to have a few excess vessels that gives us room to laze about than always being on the edge.

Instead of 1-2 extra corvettes, I would prefer the Ada class, which had somehow undergone a VLS modernization(For this, the Roketsan's VLS needs to be completed). Considering TCG Anadolu and the potential(!) AC idea, we need frigates. many frigates...
 

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Especially considering the existing vessels are like 40+ years
They are old yet well maintained and equipped with up to date solutions, especially the 4 Gabya (FFG+) is as well as good some of the modern frigates.
Barbaros going to get a nice MLU, Yavuz is going to retire and replaced with I-Class.
All we need is a new class of multi-purpose frigates to fill the gap between enormous TF-2000 and tiny I-Class at half at 1/2nd cost of TF-2000, to replace 8 Gabya and finally TF-2000 can be the ultimate AAW Destroyer for each flotilla.
 

TheInsider

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We should order 7 more I-class frigates and aim to commission 1 frigate per year after 2024 till 2030. TF-2000 works should be done in parallel. I'm hearing that the first steel cut of TF-2000 will be done in 2023. It means it will be commissioned in 2027 at the earliest and probably in 2028. We should launch a heavy frigate project(4500 tonnes class) by 2027-2028.

By 2030 we should have
4 Modernized Gabya class
8 i-class
4 modernized Barbaros class
1 TF-2000 commissioned +1 either commissioned or in trials.
1 Heavy frigate in subsystem installation and integration phase.
 

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Anmdt

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A few more vessels will be procured in near - future.
2 Ocean-going multi-purpose tugs; a few candidates:
By Desan &AMT
View attachment 19207

By TAIS:
View attachment 19208

By Istanbul Shipyard, offering a MPT based on RATSHIP.

At least one, Ocean-going hydro graphic vessel; two candidates i have came across.
By Dearsan
View attachment 19209

By TAIS, (Istanbul Shipyard), based on RATSHIP.
+hydro-graphic research vessel possibly by Desan&AMT
1623430839659.png
 
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Khagan1923

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Where there is smoke there is fire. Doesn't mean Turkey is the one asking. Could be the UK trying to offer their assistance in the future. In the end the UK is the most likely candidate if there will be a outside party.
 

Spook

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Rough translation

Future Threats Against Navy - Üsküdar Mühendishanesi

insansiz-muharip-hava-araclari.png

There is currently ongoing 3 important combatant UAV projects

Turkish Armed Forces showed how effective UCAVs can be. UCAV use by Navy has important differences. Currently UCAVs in Navy is limited to defensive purposes not offensive.

During Cold War, US and USSR extensively developed high altitude air defense systems. In 1960, U-2 flying at 20km altitude was shot in USSR using an V-750 Dvina missile. As opposed to this US developing very high altitude Mach 3.2 flying SR-71 and USSR developing Mig-31s. etc.

UCAVOriginLength (m)Wing Area (m)Takeoff weight (ton)
Altitude (km)
Thrust (kN)Speed
X-47BUSA11,618,919,012,2106Subsonic
S-70Russia14,019,020,018,0147Subsonic
NeuronEU9,512,57,014,040Subsonic
TaranisUK12,410,08,0?44?
CH-7China10,022,013,013,0?Subsonic

If can use a starting point for the new era. We can use the stealth, said to be 15km altitude flying B-2 strategic bomber. USA's long lean towards high altitude and stealth aircraft has rational reasons. With the level reached with B-2, and extensive resources allocated for unmanned technologies, US has become the country with the most capabilities in this field.

Countries following USA's long R&D activities has slowly started have similar lean. Currently, French, UK, Russia, China and India. If US allows, Japan and South Korea can be added to list too. If I write on offensive capabilities later, I will evaluate Turkey for similar aircraft.

roma-uzerine-fritz-x-isabetleri.png

46.000 ton armored Italian ship Roma was sunk after two hits by German guided munition (Fritz-X).

Foundations of this threat can go to Ruhrstahl SD1400 designed by Otto Kramer. First used in WW2.

Stealth and high altitude UCAVs combined with engineless, cheap, small. high attack angle (70-90 degrees) gliding munitions can leave surface level ships at very difficult state.

miha-gemi-hucum-senaryosu.jpg

Future skirmish scenario where high altitude stealth UCAV drops guided munition.

Current goal (for now) by gringos is to use high number of lightweight and cheap, smart munitions. While British are leaning towards miniature cruise missiles. Russians are focused towards hypersonic missiles. This is because of every countries has different needs and solutions.

Of course for a scenario like this to happen. It has to include early warning aircraft, UAVs, manned combatant aircraft, satellites, EW systems etc. to work in combined, complicated structure. If we were to try to get into these writings wouldn't end.

First generation example for its class. SDB-1 miniature bomb known as GBU-39/B was developed for F22. It has only GPS/INS guidance therefore it can only become a threat against ships that is on port or being built. GBU-39/B hits targets from 80+-5 degree angle.

While the development of the bomb SDB-2, GBU-53/B is designed for engaging moving targets. In addition to GPS/INS, it is suited with all weather, infrared homing using an uncooled imaging seeker, millimeter-wave radar and semi-active laser homing. Automatic target detection and recognition capabilities. Precision strike capable multi mode guidance.

MunitionOriginLength (m)Weight (kg)Launching Altitude (km)Range (nmi)Warhead Weight (kg)Explosive TypeExplosive Weight
Fritz-XGermany3,401.5606,02,71.400Amatol300
AGM-154CUSA4,00475?70227PBXN-10987
GBU-39/BUSA1,80129?6095AFX-75723
GBU-53/BUSA1,7693?40?AFX-75717
Spice 250Israel1,80130?5475??
Penguin Mk3120PBXN-10943
Harpoon224Destex98
Gliding munitions that can engage sea targets. Last two anti-ship missiles are provided for comparison.

When UCAVs that has very low radar signatures and very high operation altitude can engage sea targets with 40-70nmi gliding munitions. Ships are going to start having really serious issues.

For example;
  1. Ship will have serious difficulties detecting UCAV. If it doesn't have adequate systems it might not even detect it.
  2. Even if it detects it, countering it is very difficult
  3. For dozens of gliding munition can be launched from few UCAVs very difficult to detect for many reasons such as
  • Size of munition
  • No engines
  • Passive guidance
  • Approach from high altitude and angle
4. Very difficult to stop with the current ship-based air defense systems. In fact, when looked not possible.​

agm154c.jpg

JSOW variant AGM-154C developed against very small moving sea targets. Variant uses IIR seeker, an 475kg BLU-111/B penetrating warhead and FMU-152 smart fuze.

For UCAV + Guided Gliding Munition threat, Turkish Navy should;
  1. Capability of ÇAFRAD should be evaluated against this threat
  2. Current and future ships should be evaluated for capabilities against this threat
  3. Capabilities of national CIWS systems should be evaluated for these threats
Lastly, Navies manned and unmanned aircraft capabilities since it is direcltly related to this.

Aside to this, first generation naval warfare concepts like "Next Generation Fast Attack Craft Project" style programs is wrong. In the future, in the Adalar Sea. Fast attack crafts can get into same sitatution like Pantsir under Turkish UCAVs. Rather then spending billions to ships like in these domains. That money could be used for much effectively against developing counter systems.
 

Yasar_TR

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Presumavly, F515 İstanbul and a Milgem class Corvette in a Google Earth picture.
Not much going on aboard the F515. But MDAS seems to be in place.
That Corvette looks different somehow. Any guesses?
1623597268714.png
 

Anmdt

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Presumavly, F515 İstanbul and a Milgem class Corvette in a Google Earth picture.
Not much going on aboard the F515. But MDAS seems to be in place.
That Corvette looks different somehow. Any guesses?
View attachment 22839
It is a tent, not VLS, something going on inside of the F515.

Corvette is Ada class, being repainted after several repair jobs.
 

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