TR Naval Programs

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468116539811545090

Old news but verified by the class society that has certified TCG UFUK.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468605119096836100

SOF boat and submergible... is this a concept or finished design ?

25 knot speed on surface and 4 below in 30 m dept. 5,3tonnage

Posted about this in TN Conceptual design thread. It is a Submersible SOF boat with batteries included.

 

[corsair255]

I think you meant TCG Derya A1590. DIMDEG

TCG DERYA (A-1590)’yı ASELSAN GÖKDENİZ koruyacak

Denizde İkmal Muharebe Destek Gemisi (DIMDEG) Projesi kapsamında inşa faaliyetleri devam eden TCG DERYA, hava tehditlerine karşı ASELSAN GÖKDENİZ ile korunacak.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Yes, Project DIMDEG; A1590 Derya but, not "TCG" yet since it's not commissioned. But you may call her "Future TCG Derya" i guess.

 

[Anmdt]

TCG Yzb. Gungor Durmus(A-574) Logistic Support Ship formally delivered to the Turkish Navy

View attachment 36869 View attachment 36870 View attachment 36871

Maybe we could expect in future auxillary flotilla to be;
1 DIMDEG + 1 to support large flotilla operations,
2 Medium RAS Tanker to support patrol and escort operations at open seas,
2 Coastal Tanker + 2 to support FAC and Coastal patrol operations
2 Logistic Ships + 2 to support overseas operations

 

[Anmdt]

A transcript of Naval System Seminar (10th) in Turkish. I will translate it in portion as soon as i have sometime.

There are some important keypoints.

10'uncu Deniz Sistemleri Semineri: Tersanelerin bekası ülke bekası için de oldukça önemlidir

AFCEA-TR, ODTÜ-BİLTİR, TSS Haber Grubu ve Deniz Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı desteği ile bu yıl 10'uncusu düzenlenen Deniz Sistemleri Semineri 1...

www.marinedealnews.com

 

[Anmdt]

A transcript of Naval System Seminar (10th) in Turkish. I will translate it in portion as soon as i have sometime.

There are some important keypoints.

10'uncu Deniz Sistemleri Semineri: Tersanelerin bekası ülke bekası için de oldukça önemlidir

AFCEA-TR, ODTÜ-BİLTİR, TSS Haber Grubu ve Deniz Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı desteği ile bu yıl 10'uncusu düzenlenen Deniz Sistemleri Semineri 1...

www.marinedealnews.com

Keypoint #1;
In sum, TAIS military vessels department director calls on important matters related to joint bidding, prevention of bargaining between of the Turkish shipyards in export bidding and monitoring of the export bidding process by SSB and organization of the process. Also calls for increasing the JVs and joint bidding and sticking with initial plan on arranging shipyards per the experience and awarding with related projects. He also adds, the projects shouldn't simply be awarded at the cheapest bid for domestic projects, but to the shipyards which was selected to be dedicated shipyard by SSB based on their investment and capabilities. Projects also shouldn't be awarded to companies without a shipyard facility (referring to STM)

Taking such approaches as an example, I think that it would be beneficial for a similar approach to be implemented by the state authorities in our country.

♦ Close follow-up of military ship tenders in countries by attachés,

♦ Sharing the tender procurement documents obtained by the companies with the Defense Industry Presidency (SSB) by the Ministry of National Defense (MSB),

♦ If there is a company that has made significant progress in the aforementioned project, firstly supporting that company and preventing competitors from other companies in our country,

♦ If there is no company that has made progress in the projects, guiding the companies that can manufacture and export the products requested by the Ministry of National Defense in the tender,

♦ Forming consortia and participating in the tender with a single company of our country,

♦ Providing all kinds of government guarantees to the said consortium that will satisfy the other party,

♦ G2G agreements are important for preventing corruption. Agreements can lead to interstate agreements.

Although many countries in our target market have armament needs, credit needs to be provided because there is a shortage of resources. It is very important to research the state-guaranteed loan facility.

Despite the projects that the SSB has been trying to create for years to build naval ships by certain players, the fact that a new shipyard enters the naval ship business every year, as well as the fact that new formations try to find a place in the market, stands out as another factor that hinders the companies that have invested in the naval ship industry.

In this sense, it would be correct to classify the selected companies according to their qualifications and capabilities by determining the ship class and size they will work with.

It is not possible for a shipyard that has not built a ship for its own navy to gain a place in the international platform.

It is an obstacle to our military shipbuilding industry that the shipyard with the cheapest offer gets hired instead of the selected contractor shipyards.

Giving tenders especially to companies that do not have shipyards hinders the continuity of shipyard owner companies with existing investments. The survival of the shipyards is also very important for the country's survival. The USA first privatized its shipyards, but when they closed one by one, they had to take them all back. Shipyards are in a very strategic position for the future of the countries.

The high prices given by the shipbuilding sub-industry companies in our country in the tenders abroad put our shipyards in a difficult situation. If we want to export national systems, everyone should take responsibility, the primary goal should be to determine the sale of national systems.

Allowing the MİLGEM and I type frigates developed by our country to be marketed by our country's private shipyards is very important in terms of strengthening our hand in the international market and increasing the investments of shipyards.

Since defense industry projects are quite expensive, it is very difficult to be marketed and accepted without political support, whether they are affordable or technologically sufficient. In this sense, our companies that carry out defense industry projects should be in close contact with the MSB and SSB and receive their support.

 

[Anmdt]

A transcript of Naval System Seminar (10th) in Turkish. I will translate it in portion as soon as i have sometime.

There are some important keypoints.

10'uncu Deniz Sistemleri Semineri: Tersanelerin bekası ülke bekası için de oldukça önemlidir

AFCEA-TR, ODTÜ-BİLTİR, TSS Haber Grubu ve Deniz Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı desteği ile bu yıl 10'uncusu düzenlenen Deniz Sistemleri Semineri 1...

www.marinedealnews.com

Keypoint #2 by Turkish Naval Forces Technical Command Chief. He, in sum makes some remarks on OPV project that will be commissioned in 2024 after a simultaneous construction schedule. And calls on commonization of the UI and interface / mission management systems of the unmanned systens that are going to be introduced to Naval forces. He also points out the recurring R&D should be minimized and R&D inventory should be created for a synergy to form the future.

Again in this period, the offshore patrol ship project, which includes the construction of two ships, came into effect within the framework of meeting the new ship needs of the Naval Forces Command; The first weld of the first ship was also recently done. We plan to take delivery of both ships in 2024.

The planned timely construction of the TF-2000 Air Defense Warfare Destroyer is crucial for our LHD Anadolu ship to function effectively. Design activities are carried out by our Naval Technical Command Design Project Office Directorate. There is very little time left for the completion of the contract level of the design of our TF-2000 ship. As a result of a harmonious coordination between institutions, after the design is finalized, the detailed design and prototype construction activities will be started. Of course, the development of the experience gained in the construction of the national ship, the sustainability of its reciprocity and the maximum use of national resources are taken as the basis.

We are in a period in which we have acquired new aircraft in terms of both manned and unmanned platforms and that we are in a different league in the world due to the successes in the activities we perform.

One of the most important elements in the hybrid warfare concept of the 21st century is the unmanned platforms integrated as the power multiplier of the manned warfare platforms. The Naval Forces Command closely follows the developments in this regard, tries to direct it, and actually works in it. In this context, we consider that projects such as autonomous surface and underwater vehicles, and unmanned surface vehicle herd, which are being carried out in the SSB, are important steps towards the future. In addition, we follow NATO activities on unmanned naval systems, conduct continuous research and closely follow the developments in NATO activities, and try to ensure that the knowledge gained from there comes to our country. I want to draw your attention to an important issue. As Turkish engineers, we have the power to build the needed unmanned systems and the mission systems on them. We have already shown this to the whole world, both in our UAVs and in our IDAs. However, we are missing one point. I would like to point out that shortcoming and emphasize this with an example. Company A brings an unmanned system and says, "Here is my antenna, here are my consoles, let's put it on the ship". Then company B comes along and says, 'I've developed one, and I want to put it on the ship'. We are working to put this on the ship, if we put one on the ship, we will not be able to put the other one. This example I mentioned is valid for both the ship and our onshore systems. In short, we have problems that we can collect under the headings of interoperability and determination of standard interfaces waiting to be solved. In other words, we need to develop unmanned systems that do not work alone, but have the ability to work in full harmony with a command and control system that is actually in the inventory and in use. If we are able to set the rules in this league of unmanned systems that we have emerged from, we need to define and uniformize the communication infrastructures, messaging standards and control interface standards together and dictate to those who will develop new systems in order to carry out the problem areas I have mentioned.

Akın also talked about the ADVENT Combat Management System, which is a network-supported and integrated war management system, whose Processes are operated by the Research Center Command, and the vision they are trying to reveal, and said, "With ADVENT Müren, ADVENT Martı, ADVENT Ufuk and ADVENT Route, our engineering power is unnecessary for every subsystem. Instead of spending it on integration efforts, we will spend on perfecting the capabilities of the systems. In this way, non-recurring costs, reduced maintenance attitudes and user operator training will become very easy.

Let's work together with all stakeholders on the responsibility of setting standards, please create awareness of standard interfaces together and not waste our resources on this issue.

We need to work on working together and setting standard interfaces. We need the development of unmanned systems that will be fully compatible with existing command systems rather than working alone.

Let's get critical technologies shelf-ready before platforms. As for R&D, let's take a focused stance by not making repetitive efforts, let's put forward a complete R&D inventory, so that we deal with the problems of the future, not with today's problems,'' he said.

 

[Anmdt]

A transcript of Naval System Seminar (10th) in Turkish. I will translate it in portion as soon as i have sometime.

There are some important keypoints.

10'uncu Deniz Sistemleri Semineri: Tersanelerin bekası ülke bekası için de oldukça önemlidir

AFCEA-TR, ODTÜ-BİLTİR, TSS Haber Grubu ve Deniz Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı desteği ile bu yıl 10'uncusu düzenlenen Deniz Sistemleri Semineri 1...

www.marinedealnews.com

Keypoint #3 by DPO Manager Eng. Col. Timur Diler, the TF-2000 has a distributed sensor and command systems on two main masts, new ED/ET (likely AESA based) technologies will be introduced to be deployed on the integrated mast (the reason why the layout has changed). TF-2000 will be able to carry 2 medium-lift helicopter (up to 15 tons) and 2 G-IHA (Ship-Deployed UAV) simultaneously. (From here we can further deduct; 1 medium lift helicopter occupies space as much as 2 G-IHA.)

Along with the TF-2000, there are steps that need to be taken in some developments in the electronic warfare dimension. Electronic warfare, electronic support and electronic attack antennas will all be located in the integrated mast designed by us. Laser ET system in the bow, other firing and laser warning systems will be equipped all over the ship. Combat and navigation systems, which constitute the other important structures of the ship, will be scattered on the bow and stern mast.


As the TF-2000 HSHM Combat Management System, it will have a nationally and locally developed GENESIS ADVENT Combat Management System (SYS), which responds to the needs of the network-supported operational approach and will facilitate the tactical decision maker to make quick and accurate decisions with integrated decision support systems.


On board the TF-2000 HSHM, 2 Medium Load Transport Helicopters with a maximum take-off weight of at least 15 tons and 2 Ship-Deployed Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (GIHA) with fixed or rotary wing for reconnaissance/attack purposes can land and take off day and night. and service platform and hangar support, as well as a reserve weapon arsenal and JP-5 fuel supply. (helicopter) platform to be on board; It will have Level-1 certification, which allows operations to be carried out in instrument meteorological conditions day and night, and Class-2 certification, which provides service for the deployment area.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Any information about Istanbul 2nd ship if start to build and 1st TF 2000 ??

 

[Anmdt]

Any information about Istanbul 2st ship if start to build and 1st TF 2000 ??

They will likely launch bidding process of 2-4th I-Class before the TF-2000's.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

They will likely launch bidding process of 2-4th I-Class before the TF-2000's.

-So the 2nd ship is not yet start building ! What goverment waiting ?
It was espected that 4 warships will be launched in sea/duty 1 year one after another , 1 was lunched 2021 , 2nd 2022 and so on ... active duty 2023/2024/2025...

 

[Anmdt]

-So the 2nd ship is not yet start building ! What goverment waiting ?
It was espected that 4 warships will be launched in sea/duty 1 year one after another , 1 was lunched 2021 , 2nd 2022 and so on ... active duty 2023/2024/2025...

Steel construction takes a year or so, they might lay the keel in 2022, and ships will be in the 2025, 2026 and 2027 respectively.

 

[Anmdt]

The implications of a multi-purpose frigate class is getting stronger, i am speculating this entirely based on open-source available information or things spoken in seminars / meetings.



#1 Milgem project was 12 hulls, last 4 hulls were supposed be the I-Class or TF-100 (people says these are the same,however may not be). 4 Ada-Class and 4 I-Class but we have heard none about the last 4 hull which was important in Navy's future fleet plan.

#2 Navy symphatizes large hulls for longer deployment. The way TF-2000 evolved is the example. Also they openly declare the need for 5000+ tons ships to have a long term deployment / presence at sea.

#3 Apart from the initially planned 4 hulls, Navy also will need 4 more hulls to be constructed throughout the 2030-2040 to replace Barbaros Class. Construction plan of 4 planned + 4 replacement well fits if it commence in 2025-2030. Note that I-Class replaces Yavuz Class.

#4 TF-2000 is an expensive asset but it can be further shrunk in size or grow larger, also majority of the cost is occupied by Radar. Thus a common design line may fill the gap from. 6000 tonnes to 10000 tonnes. (Ie. Featuring CAFRAD MFR and CENK-S combo)

#5 TF-2000's current propulsion plant and funnel arrangement allows for 2+2 diesel configuration, also the machinery room is being planned such to allow further modifications.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

When the fleet structures of countries with similar navies are examined, it is seen that there is a structure similar to what you describe bro. While Turkey is preparing to build a powerful warship like the Tf2000, it will also take a 5000-6000t displacement class frigate into its inventory, which can fill the capability gap between this ship and the I class.

Italian Navy

• Maestrale class 3000t
• Bergamini class 6700t
• Orrizzonte class 7000t
• DDX 11000t

French Navy

• Floreal class 2950t
• La Fayetta class 3700t
• Aquitaine class 6000t
• Horizon class 7000t

Future Turkish Navy

• Milgem class 2400t
• I class 3000t
• Multi-purpose frigate (~5000-6000t)
• Tf2000 class 8000t

 

[TheInsider]

Good news guys. Both Siper Block-1 and Siper block-2 can be used in double pack configuration from the national VLS. The combat load of I Class will be 32x ESSM+16 Siper Block I/II.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Good news guys. Both Siper Block-1 and Siper block-2 can be used in double pack configuration from the national VLS. The combat load of I Class will be 32x ESSM+16 Siper Block I/II.

I like what you are saying. It is music to my ears. But what happened to the statement : “ Our national VLS will only be using indigenous missiles. No foreign missiles will be suitable. Likewise no indigenous missiles will be compatible with foreign VLS systems” ?

 

[Anmdt]

I like what you are saying. It is music to my ears. But what happened to the statement : “ Our national VLS will only be using indigenous missiles. No foreign missiles will be suitable. Likewise no indigenous missiles will be compatible with foreign VLS systems” ?

Those arguments are rumored by a user in Sadfor,likely he took the statements made in Naval Systems Seminar as granted in terms of mixed use of ESSM etc. Meanwhile these arguments rely on 'use of existing ESSM stock' those people tends to forget those stocks are meant for use in Barbaros Class and Gabya.

Also the same person claims there will be 16 Gezgin on TF-2000, however there is no limit on this. All VLS are identical on TF-2000 of the full length and if Navy desires they will carry 32 Gezgin, or 48 or just 8,4 or none depending on the mission profile.

It would be nice if people links the source so that we can know if it is a rumor, or a personal deduction, or a true inside information.

So far what is officially going on; Roketsan trying to pull out a single cell approach for tests, then signing a contract with SSB/STM for delivery to first I-Class. And after the contract they will continue tests at the sea. SSB is tighter on information leak than ever and started to scan the internet and social media for those 'leaks' as well, so we shouldn't expect to hear much before things mature.

 

[Nutuk]

I think that has to do with integration, also foreign VLS systems can be made suitable for our missiles but that has to be done with the US. There are always some modifications needed like for instance the umbilical cord, interconnection etc.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Those arguments are rumored by a user in Sadfor,likely he took the statements made in Naval Systems Seminar as granted in terms of mixed use of ESSM etc. Meanwhile these arguments rely on 'use of existing ESSM stock' those people tends to forget those stocks are meant for use in Barbaros Class and Gabya.

Also the same person claims there will be 16 Gezgin on TF-2000, however there is no limit on this. All VLS are identical on TF-2000 of the full length and if Navy desires they will carry 32 Gezgin, or 48 or just 8,4 or none depending on the mission profile.

It would be nice if people links the source so that we can know if it is a rumor, or a personal deduction, or a true inside information.

So far what is officially going on; Roketsan trying to pull out a single cell approach for tests, then signing a contract with SSB/STM for delivery to first I-Class. And after the contract they will continue tests at the sea. SSB is tighter on information leak than ever and started to scan the internet and social media for those 'leaks' as well, so we shouldn't expect to hear much before things mature.

Below statement says differently:
”Aslında MDAS Projesi, bir dikey atım sisteminden çok daha fazlasını ifade ediyor. SavunmaSanayiST.com tarafından elde edilen bilgiye göre; Türkiye’nin, MDAS sistemine hiçbir yabancı füzenin entegre edilmemesi ve hiçbir yerli füzenin de Mk41 gibi yabancı atım sistemlerine entegre edilmemesi gibi bir tutumu var. Dolayısı ile Türkiye, TCG İSTANBUL Fırkateyni’nin envantere alınacağı 2020 tarihine kadar MDAS’da kullanılacak yerli füzeleri de üretmeyi amaçlıyor. Füze alanında hem Roketsan hem de TÜBİTAK-SAGE çalışmalar gerçekleştirmekte.”

Roketsan'dan Milli Dikey Atım Sistemi (MDAS) Açıklaması

ROKETSAN, Milli Dikey Atım Sistemi (MDAS) geliştirme faaliyetlerini son hızla sürdürüyor. MDAS, sıcak atış (Hard-Launch) konseptine sahip olacak.

www.savunmasanayist.com

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1471041579628515330

 

[TheInsider]

I like what you are saying. It is music to my ears. But what happened to the statement : “ Our national VLS will only be using indigenous missiles. No foreign missiles will be suitable. Likewise no indigenous missiles will be compatible with foreign VLS systems” ?

TN wants existing ESSM missiles to be fired from the national VLS system. There is a big amount of ESSM missiles in stock and they have a lot of life left in them. This requirement came directly from the TN. Talks are going on between Roketsan and TN about which missiles will be integrated into national VLS. Meanwhile, studies will be conducted for a quad pack version of Hisar-O+, Hisar-RF, G-40/G-60, etc. BTW i was talking about the combat load of the first I class.