TR Naval Programs

[uçuyorum]

Where is the source? Edit: however Siper could be launched earlier than Hisar-N since it has longer range.

With SIPER you first need to fire the booster and then they will separate and second burn will begin. That alone takes precious seconds. An anti ship cruise missile will be sea skimming, your radar won't notice it before 20-30km due to curvature of earth. Therefore quick reaction of hisar / essm will still be needed.

 

[UkroTurk]

With SIPER you first need to fire the booster and then they will separate and second burn will begin. That alone takes precious seconds. An anti ship cruise missile will be sea skimming, your radar won't notice it before 20-30km due to curvature of earth. Therefore quick reaction of hisar / essm will still be needed.

Horizon is 70km.You could detect it earlier. İf it were 30km, ESSM would be useless.

İ will agree with you about booster but still we don't know about SİPER block 2 to have a booster. I think Siper Block 2 will equal to PAC 3 MSE.

Anyway you all seem to have not noticed:" i offered 4 x Gökdeniz ER launcher."

Gökdeniz ER will have longer range than 10km RİM-116.
Gökdeniz ER/Levent missiles will reach 15km range.
Our plain simple SUNGUR can reach 8-10km.

On the other hand currently I-Class has korkut-d and 16 VLS, so do you mean the frigate is naked?
What would put in MİDLAS?

 

[uçuyorum]

Horizon is 70km.You could detect it earlier. İf it were 30km, ESSM would be useless.

İ will agree with you about booster but still we don't know about SİPER block 2 to have a booster. I think Siper Block 2 will equal to PAC 3 MSE.

Anyway you all seem to have not noticed:" i offered 4 x Gökdeniz ER launcher."

Gökdeniz ER will have longer range than 10km RİM-116.
Gökdeniz ER/Levent missiles will reach 15km range.
Our plain simple SUNGUR can reach 8-10km.

On the other hand currently I-Class has korkut-d and 16 VLS, so do you mean the frigate is naked?
What would put in MİDLAS?

Detection range depends on height of radar and how high the target is flying. 4x Gökdeniz ER is like, what 100 million usd more per ship? Isn't a single istif around 250 - 300 million usd?

 

[UkroTurk]

Detection range depends on height of radar and how high the target is flying. 4x Gökdeniz ER is like, what 100 million usd more per ship? Isn't a single istif around 250 - 300 million usd?

I don't think Gökdeniz would cost more than 10million. You don't have to load in launcher 14 Gökdeniz missiles.You could combine with SUNGURs. Also There is also LEVENT launcher which seems without AESA Plates. LEVENT launcher could work with main CENK-S radar so it would sharply decrease the price.

Ok i have changed my mind, instead of Gökdeniz ER launcher let it be 2 additional LEVENT launchers with 16 cell VLS and Korkut-D.

IMO Korkut-D's rotating radar is waste of money. İnstead of one big rotating radar, i would prefer 4 x compact AESA around plates the frigate.

 

[Afif]

Horizon is 70km.You could detect it earlier. İf it were 30km, ESSM would be useless.

Modern AShM cruise at 3-5 meter or lower.
They usually appear on radar screen at 20-30km depending on how high your radar's placement is and the altitude AShM is cruising at.
But you simply don’t detect them beyond 35km with ship's sensors. (Unless you have ISR assets in the sky above)

How ESSM is useless?

İ will agree with you about booster but still we don't know about SİPER block 2 to have a booster. I think Siper Block 2 will equal to PAC 3 MSE.

SIPER block ii seems to be without booster. (the mock up has been posted) That is why i previously said-

Maybe when SIPER block ii is inducted you model would be more effective as I suspect SIPER block ii (without booster) would have same reaction time as HISAR-N.

 

[UkroTurk]

But you simply don’t detect them beyond 35km with ship's sensors

Nope

 

[Afif]

Nope

Yes. Unless they are flying at high altitude, which they don’t when approaching the target.

 

[uçuyorum]

Yes. Unless they are flying at high altitude, which they don’t when approaching the target.

It is simple geometry but you can also type radar horizon calculator on google which accounts for refraction etc. , 50 meter radar height and 3 meter target height gives around 29-36 km detection

 

[Afif]

It is simple geometry but you can also type radar horizon calculator on google which accounts for refraction etc. , 50 meter radar height and 3 meter target height gives around 29-36 km detection

Exactly.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Horizon is 70km.You could detect it earlier. İf it were 30km, ESSM would be useless.

Horizon distance depends entirely on how high you are or where your radar is.
As a quick calculator let me give you a simple formula:

Horizon distance = 3.57 √eye height

So if you stood on a cliff 33.5m high with your eyes at 36m;

Horizon distance = 3.57 x √36 = 21.4km

Due to atmospheric refraction the radar horizon is further; and the constant to multiply is 4/3 , which gives you:
horizon distance = 4.76 x √36 = 28.5km

36m is more or less how high a frigate’s radar is.

If you were standing at the beach level by the sea:
horizon distance = 3.57 x √1.65 = 4.6km

Edit:
With a missile travelling 3-50 m above sea you have to add that extra height to the overall distance calculation.

 

[UkroTurk]

horizon distance = 4.76 x √36 = 28.5km

So calculating reaction time of your air defense systems, RIM-116 ( Levent missile)is enough against antiship missiles.

Because any SAM couldn't reach sea-skimming missiles more than 20km.

ESSM( 50km range) never finish its rocket fuel chasing sea skimming missiles. On the other hand ESSM couldnt cope with fighters. So the missile is waste of limited space.



ESSM ER / SIPER seems to more useful as could hit higher, fighters can't escape.

The worst solution is absolutely Aster 15 . İnstead of aster 15, Mica VL is smarter.

 

[Afif]

1. ESSM's motors burns out before it reaches 20km.

And even if it were still running, this would've been a good thing given it will allow the missile to take advantage of its TVC and maintain 60g maneuverability until the very last moment.


2. Fighter does not need to come within 100km to launch its AShM.
Or after getting radar lock-on it could just dive to a low altitude and break the radar lock.

3. ASTER-15 is actually the best MRSAM out there. (It is the only MRSAM that can guarantee a hit to kill shot thanks to its unique 'dart')

 

[UkroTurk]

if it were still running

ESSM's motors burns out

Running or burns out?

60g maneuverability until the very last moment.

Still running or burns out?

Fighter does not need to

frigates must not block flight corridors?

Why do you think fighters attack on ships with just antiship missiles?


Or antiship missiles must be launched not closer than 100km?

unique 'dart'

That's why Mica VL appeared.

 

[Afif]

Running or burns out?

Still running or burns out?

My bad, i meant 'if it were still burning.'
And the point is still valid.

And even if it were still burning, this would've been a good thing given it will allow the missile to take advantage of its TVC and maintain 60g maneuverability until the very last moment.

frigates must not block flight corridors?

What??

Why do you think fighters attack on ships with just antiship missiles?

No, I don't think that.

Or antiship missiles must be launched not closer than 100km?

There is a thing called stand-off range.

Ships equipped with long range SAM like ASTER-30, BARAK-8 ER or SIPER II would be very lethal if Fighters get within its NEZ.

That's why Mica VL appeared.

Yeah, that is why French navy doesn't use them on their ships.

In reality, it is a cheap solution for export customers.

 

[Yasar_TR]

ESSM( 50km range) never finish its rocket fuel chasing sea skimming missiles. On the other hand ESSM couldnt cope with fighters. So the missile is waste of limited space.

ESSM is one of the most potent air defence missiles around today. It is supposed to stay in service well in to latter part of 2030’s.
No one in public domain really knows what it’s maximum altitude and range is. Most educated guesstimates are with a possible effective range of up to 80km. Any missile that can have an effective range of that much will have a decent effective altitude as well. But it has to be remembered that it was designed as a short to medium range air defence missile.
It has a maximum speed of 4+ Mach. It has a dual thrust engine on board. This is a fire and sustain type of rocket motor. The fuel tank contains two types of fuel. One that burns fast and gives a high top speed very quickly. And another fuel that is slower to burn but sustains the speed and power delivery of the motor. So it’s engine stays on longer than other standard rocket engines.
It can engage short range ballistic missiles as well as sea skimming subsonic and supersonic anti ship missiles. The ESSM provides the capability to counter high G manoeuvring anti-ship missiles. It can be used in cases where supersonic anti ship missile interception is needed. The missile is equipped with an insensitive munition (IM)-compliant, annular blast fragmentation warhead, weighing 40.5kg, and offers high lethality against anti-ship missiles. It can also engage attack aircraft, helicopters as well as ships.
US Aegis cruisers and destroyers as well as Japanese mega destroyers all have batteries of these missiles in their inventories; some as their main defence mechanism. So it would be, to say the least, presumptuous and even wrong to underestimate the capabilities of this missile.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1677300742766448640

The second ship of the Logistics Support Ship Project has started the ship acceptance tests.

 

[TR_123456]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1677300742766448640

The second ship of the Logistics Support Ship Project has started the ship acceptance tests.

Whats the tonnage?

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Whats the tonnage?

8400ton , 106 meter.

Aslo another 2 x bigger logitic ships are building TCG DERYA Dimdeg type
26000 ton 195 meter , This ship type as dar as i know aslo won the Indian tender to build 5 i think . Together with Anadolu will be two heaviest ships in Turk navy .

 

[Osman]

After this one and Dimdeg, Turkish navy will become 10th largest navy in the world in terms of tonnage, leaving taiwanese navy behind.

 

[TheInsider]

Akhisar, Hisar Class high sea patrol ship (ADKG).
It will probably be launched soon.