TR Naval Programs

[BaburKhan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1812198835084468348

Maybe something the german Delay ?

 

[TheInsider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1812198835084468348

Maybe something the german Delay ?

Nope. It is related to the helicopter capture and transfer system.

 

[AlterUnd]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1811826795630723250

According to President Erdoğan Germans are blocking machinery (probably related to propulsion) for Turkish frigates, turbines for the Akkuyu nuclear plant, and the Eurofighter deal.

Germans are also slowing down the Reis class submarine project.

They did block MTU engines and STM & DzKK agreed to switch with MAN engines. Renk cross connect gears are, however, delivered or ordered with no further issues. This is strange, to my opinion the gearbox is much more crucial since it is custom made and would cause delays in the project since there is no alternative supplier.
MTU either tells 'there is no engine in stock' and postpones the delivery to two to three years later, while it is known that they have a stock, or they tell that there issues with the customs, regulations and export regulations.

Anyone who is slightly familiar with German bureucracy would understand these much better, if they don't desire to sell a nut, they would find a regulation as an alibi.

 

[AlterUnd]

I am totally on this page, likely TN thinks the same. They have had a great and indispensable input for 76mm project and i don't think they would be willing to allocate additional resources for a 127mm project. We should improve 76mm as far as possible to the SR level and equip it with multi-purpose smart munitions. From there on we may work on 127mm smart munitions for 127mm to be supplied from foreign partners.

76mm could be even meaningful for the multi-purpose frigates. Twin 76mm configuration would provide a better protection and higher fire of rate and easier integration. 76mm goes one deck level depth, 127 occupies 3 deck levels.

Let's just focus on 40mm and 76mm and make these as compact and responsive as possible, equipped with variety of smart munitions, and with optional non-penetrating variants.

To enrich this with this;

The multi purpose frigate will likely be derived from TF-2000, just like how Hisar Class derived from ada class. A 76 mm will be much easier to integrate, operate, maintain on a multi-purpose frigate. Sapomer munition could provide a decent shore bombardment range.

 

[Anmdt]

To enrich this with this;

The multi purpose frigate will likely be derived from TF-2000, just like how Hisar Class derived from ada class. A 76 mm will be much easier to integrate, operate, maintain on a multi-purpose frigate. Sapomer munition could provide a decent shore bombardment range.

Indeed, the TF-2000 is based on a much more flexible idea and philosophy than the Ada class design. Size and dimensions are another factor here. I believe the current design can be scaled down to a 6500+ tonne hull that can serve as a multi-purpose frigate, equipped with MFR and CENK-S, or a scaled down UMR radar combined with MFR.

 

[Kaan Azman]

After the whole SAPAN talk, I felt like I could drop in an idea of what might SAPAN 1 and SAPAN 2 look like (Too lazy to take a render at the time, need some sleep)

 

[Anmdt]

View attachment 69506
After the whole SAPAN talk, I felt like I could drop in an idea of what might SAPAN 1 and SAPAN 2 look like (Too lazy to take a render at the time, need some sleep)

I would make the booster slimmer and longer and possibly introduce TVC fins.

 

[Anmdt]

You guys are missing this out? I waited a while for a young member to take duty of taking these screenshots out of the video
(reference video by Kaner Kurt)
(Author Cansın Özden, 1 and 2)

ÇAMD - MPMS (Multi-purpose mini submarine) and possible variants to be derived.

Pressure hull, manufactured at a factory:

Under the skin, and transportability by 20-foot trailer

Adaptability, to begin with a "test platform" for all needs that TN and SSB affiliated companies, or private companies may need to test at open seas, as well as paving a way to be studies for unmanned underwater vehicles.

Operated by 4 crew, 2 core crew for the submarine (one captain, one technician) and affording space for 2 onboard test personnel. Also has capability to supply 5 kWh for tested equipment. We also see a detailed see-through image here with the possible maximum layout.

A cut-view of the hull, and brief structural layout:

A detailed structural view for whom could see:

DSRV version:

SDV version:

New bonus, a midget submarine by DATUM AS, also transportable by a low-bed truck.

 

[Anmdt]

You guys are missing this out? I waited a while for a young member to take duty of taking these screenshots out of the video
(reference video by Kaner Kurt)
(Author Cansın Özden, 1 and 2)

ÇAMD - MPMS (Multi-purpose mini submarine) and possible variants to be derived.
View attachment 69648

Pressure hull, manufactured at a factory:
View attachment 69649

Under the skin, and transportability by 20-foot trailer
View attachment 69650


Adaptability, to begin with a "test platform" for all needs that TN and SSB affiliated companies, or private companies may need to test at open seas, as well as paving a way to be studies for unmanned underwater vehicles.
View attachment 69651

Operated by 4 crew, 2 core crew for the submarine (one captain, one technician) and affording space for 2 onboard test personnel. Also has capability to supply 5 kWh for tested equipment. We also see a detailed see-through image here with the possible maximum layout.
View attachment 69661

A cut-view of the hull, and brief structural layout:
View attachment 69653

A detailed structural view for whom could see:
View attachment 69654


DSRV version:
View attachment 69655


SDV version:
View attachment 69657
View attachment 69658

New bonus, a midget submarine by DATUM AS, also transportable by a low-bed truck.
View attachment 69659
View attachment 69660

My personal comment would be that concepts are worth a day or two, but turning them into products takes years and a solid team behind it. A single mind cannot achieve everything, nor master all knowledge. He is enthusiastic, he has no doubts, but over-enthusiasm has its own shortcomings. For example, he should leave CONOPS to those who master it, it cannot be studied simply by using Google Maps and distance measurement. He has great knowledge of the history of submarines and mini-submarines, and he also knows the best way in which those submarines were used, or were used close to shore, depending on regulated resupply, and without having to dive so much. Rather to be made enmasse and to make green water inaccessible, not to "control". Control is the duty of what we know as submarines, which can sustain operations and extend them to months in a single shot.

Over-enthusiasm is often accompanied by the delusion of having all the knowledge, trusting no one and controlling tiny bits, which does not make for a solid team.

I hope he succeeds and I know he has great support for his vision from TN and SSB. All he needs to do is build a solid and good team, and communicate properly without provoking those who really know few subjects but master it.​

 

[Sanchez]

You guys are missing this out? I waited a while for a young member to take duty of taking these screenshots out of the video
(reference video by Kaner Kurt)
(Author Cansın Özden, 1 and 2)

ÇAMD - MPMS (Multi-purpose mini submarine) and possible variants to be derived.
View attachment 69648

Pressure hull, manufactured at a factory:
View attachment 69649

Under the skin, and transportability by 20-foot trailer
View attachment 69650


Adaptability, to begin with a "test platform" for all needs that TN and SSB affiliated companies, or private companies may need to test at open seas, as well as paving a way to be studies for unmanned underwater vehicles.
View attachment 69651

Operated by 4 crew, 2 core crew for the submarine (one captain, one technician) and affording space for 2 onboard test personnel. Also has capability to supply 5 kWh for tested equipment. We also see a detailed see-through image here with the possible maximum layout.
View attachment 69661

A cut-view of the hull, and brief structural layout:
View attachment 69653

A detailed structural view for whom could see:
View attachment 69654


DSRV version:
View attachment 69655


SDV version:
View attachment 69657
View attachment 69658

New bonus, a midget submarine by DATUM AS, also transportable by a low-bed truck.
View attachment 69659
View attachment 69660

It's on my watch later tab since it was announced. Will have at it as soon as i have the time.

 

[Zafer]

I listened to this talk yesterday, they are making small submarine designs to experiment concepts as it is cheaper to fail in small size. For the Turkish Navy we need stuff that will be taken seriously by the world navies.

 

[zio]

TCG alemdar needs personel recovery vehichle from sub

 

[Sanchez]

I listened to this talk yesterday, they are making small submarine designs to experiment concepts as it is cheaper to fail in small size. For the Turkish Navy we need stuff that will be taken seriously by the world navies.

If the costs can be kept low, we can both have Milden and this in numbers tho.

 

[Zafer]

If the costs can be kept low, we can both have Milden and this in numbers tho.

These are small subs so they can justify the cost in any case as they are cost effective to experiment with. However TN needs to expand its operational reach and this can be achieved with nuclear propulsion. Also we need the subs to be able to shoot ballistic missiles to be deterrent. We basically need world class subs and not ones that can barely do basic functions in a limited capacity. Nuclear propulsion is a must for Turkiye.

 

[Anmdt]

If the costs can be kept low, we can both have Milden and this in numbers tho.

I haven't watched the whole video to be honest, just the images, but at some point I caught a comparison with TB-2 and whether it could be vis-a-vis for submarines. Well I happened to notice they missed one factor, in order to be a TB2 it should both rely on COTS components, or components that can be easily procured domestically and produced by domestic sources, ease of maintenance and ease of operation to an extent that a navy or a country with no submarine force should be ready within weeks of training (with mission specialists such as weapons sensors going through an extensive training programme of course) and operate the machine safely.​

 

[uçuyorum]

These are small subs so they can justify the cost in any case as they are cost effective to experiment with. However TN needs to expand its operational reach and this can be achieved with nuclear propulsion. Also we need the subs to be able to shoot ballistic missiles to be deterrent. We basically need world class subs and not ones that can barely do basic functions in a limited capacity. Nuclear propulsion is a must for Turkiye.

Idea is they can be transported by cargo ships or cargo planes so you could deploy them anywhere and defend the shores of a remote region. And I think we need them even more in aegean.

 

[Sanchez]

These are small subs so they can justify the cost in any case as they are cost effective to experiment with. However TN needs to expand its operational reach and this can be achieved with nuclear propulsion. Also we need the subs to be able to shoot ballistic missiles to be deterrent. We basically need world class subs and not ones that can barely do basic functions in a limited capacity. Nuclear propulsion is a must for Turkiye.

Not in the Med, we don't. In the Med it might even be a disadvantage. I don't think any nuclear powered subs are related to these tiny boats tho. They wouldn't even exist on the same plane. We can discuss it separately from midget subs i think.

I haven't watched the whole video to be honest, just the images, but at some point I caught a comparison with TB-2 and whether it could be vis-a-vis for submarines. Well I happened to notice they missed one factor, in order to be a TB2 it should both rely on COTS components, or components that can be easily procured domestically and produced by domestic sources, ease of maintenance and ease of operation to an extent that a navy or a country with no submarine force should be ready within weeks of training (with mission specialists such as weapons sensors going through an extensive training programme of course) and operate the machine safely.​

A manned platform, a submarine nonetheless can never be like the TB2. Yes it's basically a buzzword at this point, but very off putting comparison that.

 

[Zafer]

Idea is they can be transported by cargo ships or cargo planes so you could deploy them anywhere and defend the shores of a remote region. And I think we need them even more in aegean.

Waters around Turkiye are not really remote places. We may need them for overseas operations though. The gist of the talk is that they can experiment technologies on small subs before they are deployed on full size ones.

 

[Zafer]

Not in the Med, we don't. In the Med it might even be a disadvantage. I don't think any nuclear powered subs are related to these tiny boats tho. They wouldn't even exist on the same plane. We can discuss it separately from midget subs i think.


A manned platform, a submarine nonetheless can never be like the TB2. Yes it's basically a buzzword at this point, but very off putting comparison that.

That's because there is mention of Milden in the same post.

 

[Sanchez]

That's because there is mention of Milden in the same post.

First Milden class will definitely be AIP diesel electric. We have older boats that will need replacing by the time Milden is in building phase and they will use the tech they will have known by then, not nuclear with which we have no experience. In the future tho, I also think there will be attempts at SS(B)Ns under the continuation of Milden.