TR Naval Programs

[uçuyorum]

First Milden class will definitely be AIP diesel electric. We have older boats that will need replacing by the time Milden is in building phase and they will use the tech they will have known by then, not nuclear with which we have no experience. In the future tho, I also think there will be attempts at SS(B)Ns under the continuation of Milden.

Yeah SSBN would be like TF2000 of milden, where first ones are like ADA class

 

[Zafer]

First Milden class will definitely be AIP diesel electric. We have older boats that will need replacing by the time Milden is in building phase and they will use the tech they will have known by then, not nuclear with which we have no experience. In the future tho, I also think there will be attempts at SS(B)Ns under the continuation of Milden.

We have came a long way on Kaan project we can do a similar progress in nuclear propulsion when the time comes.

 

[Anmdt]

Yeah SSBN would be like TF2000 of milden, where first ones are like ADA class

Milden = TF2000
SSBN = Aircraft carrier

 

[Quasar]

One year after GE Aerospace signed an agreement with TAIS OG-STM İş Ortaklığı in Istanbul, Türkiye, to provide LM2500 marine gas turbines for the İstif-Class frigates number 6 - 8 in the MILGEM project, an order for frigates number 9 – 12 has been initiated. GE Aerospace’s LM2500 will supply 23 MW of power to each frigate.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1818649412555399455

 

[Sanchez]

Great news.

-
I still don't understand why they go with this numbering scheme. All it does is to confuse the reader. Yes, Istif is the continuation of Milgem and Ada Class ships. But Ada Class is completed with all ships delivered. Just use one or the other. A layperson directly understands this as if Istif will be a 12 ship class instead of 8. Add Hisars and Ufuk and it becomes a soup with somewhere between 15 and 23 hulls. It's just confusing.

 

[Quasar]

Great news.

-
I still don't understand why they go with this numbering scheme. All it does is to confuse the reader. Yes, Istif is the continuation of Milgem and Ada Class ships. But Ada Class is completed with all ships delivered. Just use one or the other. A layperson directly understands this as if Istif will be a 12 ship class instead of 8. Add Hisars and Ufuk and it becomes a soup with somewhere between 15 and 23 hulls. It's just confusing.

agreed...but kind of enjoying it as well.... MILGEM... guess this numbering scheme will continue till we accept the fact/ get used to the fact that now we are a ship building nation... and most probably this will coincide with the deliveries of TF 2000... I mean getting used to otherwise as you stated they have their offical designations ADA İSTİF HİSAR

 

[Sanchez]

Or they could number them like the Koreans do. Call them Milgem-I, II, III, whatever. Navy probably have their reason to call them as such but they also have a responsibility to clear confusions. Milgem as a program grew so much, we are now talking about somewhere between 24 and 35+ projected ships with exported ones, not even counting the TF2000.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Great news.

-
I still don't understand why they go with this numbering scheme. All it does is to confuse the reader. Yes, Istif is the continuation of Milgem and Ada Class ships. But Ada Class is completed with all ships delivered. Just use one or the other. A layperson directly understands this as if Istif will be a 12 ship class instead of 8. Add Hisars and Ufuk and it becomes a soup with somewhere between 15 and 23 hulls. It's just confusing.

Milgem stands for national ship so ada and istanbul class or Hissar class both are MILGEM

 

[Sanchez]

Milgem was a great thing when it was started 20 years ago with Heybeliada, now it's a family of many vessels. "National Ship" doesn't hold the same meaning when we will have 17/25+ of them in service in 2030. Sadly the naming is now outdated, no one nowadays doubts we can build our own warship and we should also get with the times.

Milden however is different, as we are yet to prove our mettle in building our own submarine. It is still relevant. "Milgem" isn't.

 

[Quasar]

@Anmdt there was this memorandum of understanding with GE and TEI about '' localization regarding the production, assembly, testing, maintenance, inspection, repair and revision of the LM2500 and LM500 gas turbine families, both within the scope of export programs and programs in Turkey. it was also including opportunities to involve TEI in various design processes for potential naval programs'' and later GE Marine has signed a license agreement with TEI

For this agreement of GE Aerospace and TAIS OG-STM what is the role of TEI?

 

[Anmdt]

@Anmdt there was this memorandum of understanding with GE and TEI about '' localization regarding the production, assembly, testing, maintenance, inspection, repair and revision of the LM2500 and LM500 gas turbine families, both within the scope of export programs and programs in Turkey. it was also including opportunities to involve TEI in various design processes for potential naval programs''

For this agreement of GE Aerospace and TAIS OG-STM what is the role of TEI?

TEI will cover the aforementioned duties as a contractor. It doesn't mean that TEI may collect orders for gas turbines, it is still of GE's product and responsibility. Here, TEI is being a contractor.

 

[Anmdt]

Great news.

-
I still don't understand why they go with this numbering scheme. All it does is to confuse the reader. Yes, Istif is the continuation of Milgem and Ada Class ships. But Ada Class is completed with all ships delivered. Just use one or the other. A layperson directly understands this as if Istif will be a 12 ship class instead of 8. Add Hisars and Ufuk and it becomes a soup with somewhere between 15 and 23 hulls. It's just confusing.

Guess they stick with the initial plan; "It used to be a 12-ship programme let's keep it that way". Navy seems to have an habit for fulfilling belated promises, either that way or this way. You have your 12 Milgem on the main line and rest of the naming is whatever the contractor call them. Such as TCG Ufuk was not a hull to be counted with Milgem, it is TVEG. Pakistan's orders were called as PN-Milgem / Milgem-PN and some others called this way while Hisar class was not ever referred as Milgem but ADKG, despite being based on that design.

Initial Milgem line; 12 ships (Corvette + Frigate sum) and 4 (+3) TF-2000. Beyond that there is no real Milgem, we are counting the hulls within this main line. There are three Milgem-s in context, one referring to the design of Ada Class, another referring to the line of initially planned 12 hulls and latest refering to a programme which covers up to realization of TF-2000.

 

[Sanchez]

I wonder what could they be. New batch of Hisars would be the most expected I think. Maybe something bit more special?

"DEARSAN Shipyard will produce 2 warships for the Turkish Navy.

The cost of the two ships is estimated to be in the range of 300-400 million dollars."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820544582787944801

 

[boredaf]

I wonder what could they be. New batch of Hisars would be the most expected I think. Maybe something bit more special?

"DEARSAN Shipyard will produce 2 warships for the Turkish Navy.

The cost of the two ships is estimated to be in the range of 300-400 million dollars."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820544582787944801

Maybe FAC? I mean if that price is for both of them 150-200 million for a ship make it sound like something smaller to me.

 

[dBSPL]

Maybe FAC? I mean if that price is for both of them 150-200 million for a ship make it sound like something smaller to me.

Probably. Since it is said that there will be combat systems on, it does not seem to be a large enough contract for a frigate in that purpose. For the very same reason, also conclude that it is not a patrol boat either. A high-speed and relatively low tonnage combatant ship class seems to be the most plausible guess.

However, there is a situation: Even if we put Cyprus in separate brackets, Libya, Qatar and especially Somalia are the countries where the naval forces will increase their activities in the coming period. Therefore, in line with these basing and developing doctrines, there may be talk of a Corvette project that will proceed in parallel with the current official main modernization plan and include the mission needs in these territorial waters. Considering Dearsan's current design-build and outfitting activities, they have achieved significant experience and success, especially in this relevant range.

Of course, if I had a wish, I would wish to have started serial production in a midget class combat submarine project rather than a surface combatant ship. lol.

 

[boredaf]

, I would wish to have started serial production in a midget class combat submarine

You're going to make me tear up with that, I'm still hoping navy will order STM 500.

there may be talk of a Corvette project that will proceed in parallel with the current official main modernization plan and include the mission needs in these territorial waters.

Still too low a price imo. But, I think Dearsan's FAC 65 (or a design similar to that) could probably cover those waters, couldn't it?

Dearsan

dearsan.com

 

[Yasar_TR]

It has to be remembered that the Hisar Class ships are designed with the concept of Fitted But Not With . In other words, they are clean slates ready to receive additions. Hence their initial costs were in the region of 110-120 million dollars each when they were being conceived. (That may have gone up significantly since)
They do not have the expensive gas turbines as the Milgem ships that they were based on. Their radar systems are more economical versions to start with. They come with a very basic armament complement. Probably with less number of Atmaca anti ship missiles. May even have CAKIR missiles instead.
That makes these ships much cheaper to produce.
If needed they can be equipped with better radars and sensors and more effective weapons systems at short notice.
So the more weapons and control systems you add to the ship the more expensive it will become. Also it has to be remembered that having produced 4 hulls for ADA Class, 4 Hulls for Pakistan, 2 Hulls for Ukraine, 2 Hulls for Hisar and now getting ready to produce 3 Hulls for Malaysian LMS and 8 more Hisar ships, the Milgem production line and the eco system that supports it will be fairly efficient and cost effective.
Dearsan may be given the work for the Hisar Class OPVs.

 

[Anmdt]

I wonder what could they be. New batch of Hisars would be the most expected I think. Maybe something bit more special?

"DEARSAN Shipyard will produce 2 warships for the Turkish Navy.

The cost of the two ships is estimated to be in the range of 300-400 million dollars."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820544582787944801

Minesweeper and i think price estimate is highly based on an average corvette price with no further "information".

• 4x Istif
• 4x Hisar OPV
• 1x TT Assault Boat
• 8x LCT
• 1x Mine Hunter
• 1x Military Tug

View attachment 64941

Let's note this, i am certain that minesweeper is there, and the tug or FAC is optional. Since we seem to talk about a contract directly given to the Dearsan it should be a design with no STM involvement, that brings us down to: Tug and Minesweeper. Why not the OPV? Because those hulls will be built by shipyards who has experience on Ada-Class design, possibly Istanbul Naval Shipyard since ASFAT wouldn't prefer to work with RMK&IS.

(Although i am certain Ada shipyard will get a project through STM but still can not name it)

So, $300-400m is a totally made up number.

 

[Anmdt]

It has to be remembered that the Hisar Class ships are designed with the concept of Fitted But Not With . In other words, they are clean slates ready to receive additions. Hence their initial costs were in the region of 110-120 million dollars each when they were being conceived. (That may have gone up significantly since)
They do not have the expensive gas turbines as the Milgem ships that they were based on. Their radar systems are more economical versions to start with. They come with a very basic armament complement. Probably with less number of Atmaca anti ship missiles. May even have CAKIR missiles instead.
That makes these ships much cheaper to produce.
If needed they can be equipped with better radars and sensors and more effective weapons systems at short notice.
So the more weapons and control systems you add to the ship the more expensive it will become. Also it has to be remembered that having produced 4 hulls for ADA Class, 4 Hulls for Pakistan, 2 Hulls for Ukraine, 2 Hulls for Hisar and now getting ready to produce 3 Hulls for Malaysian LMS and 8 more Hisar ships, the Milgem production line and the eco system that supports it will be fairly efficient and cost effective.
Dearsan may be given the work for the Hisar Class OPVs.

I think most of the combatant projects*(except TF-2000 and Hisar) run through STM and the shipyards they are collaborating with. (TAIS, RMK, IS) so i wouldn't expect Dearsan to be named alone if it was the OPV, moreover the minesweeper and FAC** was also hinted in the earlier given breakdown (It was announced in January, i suppose).

*For these two, ASFAT is currently the main contractor and if the ships are built in any privately owned shipyard then we would heard it by ASFAT.

** FAC is continuing by STM, will be constructed by STM in any selected shipyard so, same applies for here.

 

[neosinan]

I wonder what could they be. New batch of Hisars would be the most expected I think. Maybe something bit more special?

"DEARSAN Shipyard will produce 2 warships for the Turkish Navy.

The cost of the two ships is estimated to be in the range of 300-400 million dollars."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820544582787944801

This could be hull price of Hisar but More likely İ class. Ukraine's milgem hull price was lower than this range, 137m$ per ship. Like Usual, Radars and SAM's will have different contracts thus It wont be included in Dearsan's contract.