TR Navy Naval Programs

[Quasar]

Great news.

-
I still don't understand why they go with this numbering scheme. All it does is to confuse the reader. Yes, Istif is the continuation of Milgem and Ada Class ships. But Ada Class is completed with all ships delivered. Just use one or the other. A layperson directly understands this as if Istif will be a 12 ship class instead of 8. Add Hisars and Ufuk and it becomes a soup with somewhere between 15 and 23 hulls. It's just confusing.

agreed...but kind of enjoying it as well.... MILGEM... guess this numbering scheme will continue till we accept the fact/ get used to the fact that now we are a ship building nation... and most probably this will coincide with the deliveries of TF 2000... I mean getting used to otherwise as you stated they have their offical designations ADA İSTİF HİSAR

 

[Sanchez]

Or they could number them like the Koreans do. Call them Milgem-I, II, III, whatever. Navy probably have their reason to call them as such but they also have a responsibility to clear confusions. Milgem as a program grew so much, we are now talking about somewhere between 24 and 35+ projected ships with exported ones, not even counting the TF2000.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Great news.

-
I still don't understand why they go with this numbering scheme. All it does is to confuse the reader. Yes, Istif is the continuation of Milgem and Ada Class ships. But Ada Class is completed with all ships delivered. Just use one or the other. A layperson directly understands this as if Istif will be a 12 ship class instead of 8. Add Hisars and Ufuk and it becomes a soup with somewhere between 15 and 23 hulls. It's just confusing.

Milgem stands for national ship so ada and istanbul class or Hissar class both are MILGEM

 

[Sanchez]

Milgem was a great thing when it was started 20 years ago with Heybeliada, now it's a family of many vessels. "National Ship" doesn't hold the same meaning when we will have 17/25+ of them in service in 2030. Sadly the naming is now outdated, no one nowadays doubts we can build our own warship and we should also get with the times.

Milden however is different, as we are yet to prove our mettle in building our own submarine. It is still relevant. "Milgem" isn't.

 

[Quasar]

@Anmdt there was this memorandum of understanding with GE and TEI about '' localization regarding the production, assembly, testing, maintenance, inspection, repair and revision of the LM2500 and LM500 gas turbine families, both within the scope of export programs and programs in Turkey. it was also including opportunities to involve TEI in various design processes for potential naval programs'' and later GE Marine has signed a license agreement with TEI

For this agreement of GE Aerospace and TAIS OG-STM what is the role of TEI?

 

[Anmdt]

@Anmdt there was this memorandum of understanding with GE and TEI about '' localization regarding the production, assembly, testing, maintenance, inspection, repair and revision of the LM2500 and LM500 gas turbine families, both within the scope of export programs and programs in Turkey. it was also including opportunities to involve TEI in various design processes for potential naval programs''

For this agreement of GE Aerospace and TAIS OG-STM what is the role of TEI?

TEI will cover the aforementioned duties as a contractor. It doesn't mean that TEI may collect orders for gas turbines, it is still of GE's product and responsibility. Here, TEI is being a contractor.

 

[Anmdt]

Great news.

-
I still don't understand why they go with this numbering scheme. All it does is to confuse the reader. Yes, Istif is the continuation of Milgem and Ada Class ships. But Ada Class is completed with all ships delivered. Just use one or the other. A layperson directly understands this as if Istif will be a 12 ship class instead of 8. Add Hisars and Ufuk and it becomes a soup with somewhere between 15 and 23 hulls. It's just confusing.

Guess they stick with the initial plan; "It used to be a 12-ship programme let's keep it that way". Navy seems to have an habit for fulfilling belated promises, either that way or this way. You have your 12 Milgem on the main line and rest of the naming is whatever the contractor call them. Such as TCG Ufuk was not a hull to be counted with Milgem, it is TVEG. Pakistan's orders were called as PN-Milgem / Milgem-PN and some others called this way while Hisar class was not ever referred as Milgem but ADKG, despite being based on that design.

Initial Milgem line; 12 ships (Corvette + Frigate sum) and 4 (+3) TF-2000. Beyond that there is no real Milgem, we are counting the hulls within this main line. There are three Milgem-s in context, one referring to the design of Ada Class, another referring to the line of initially planned 12 hulls and latest refering to a programme which covers up to realization of TF-2000.

 

[Sanchez]

I wonder what could they be. New batch of Hisars would be the most expected I think. Maybe something bit more special?

"DEARSAN Shipyard will produce 2 warships for the Turkish Navy.

The cost of the two ships is estimated to be in the range of 300-400 million dollars."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820544582787944801

 

[boredaf]

I wonder what could they be. New batch of Hisars would be the most expected I think. Maybe something bit more special?

"DEARSAN Shipyard will produce 2 warships for the Turkish Navy.

The cost of the two ships is estimated to be in the range of 300-400 million dollars."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820544582787944801

Maybe FAC? I mean if that price is for both of them 150-200 million for a ship make it sound like something smaller to me.

 

[dBSPL]

Maybe FAC? I mean if that price is for both of them 150-200 million for a ship make it sound like something smaller to me.

Probably. Since it is said that there will be combat systems on, it does not seem to be a large enough contract for a frigate in that purpose. For the very same reason, also conclude that it is not a patrol boat either. A high-speed and relatively low tonnage combatant ship class seems to be the most plausible guess.

However, there is a situation: Even if we put Cyprus in separate brackets, Libya, Qatar and especially Somalia are the countries where the naval forces will increase their activities in the coming period. Therefore, in line with these basing and developing doctrines, there may be talk of a Corvette project that will proceed in parallel with the current official main modernization plan and include the mission needs in these territorial waters. Considering Dearsan's current design-build and outfitting activities, they have achieved significant experience and success, especially in this relevant range.

Of course, if I had a wish, I would wish to have started serial production in a midget class combat submarine project rather than a surface combatant ship. lol.

 

[boredaf]

, I would wish to have started serial production in a midget class combat submarine

You're going to make me tear up with that, I'm still hoping navy will order STM 500.

there may be talk of a Corvette project that will proceed in parallel with the current official main modernization plan and include the mission needs in these territorial waters.

Still too low a price imo. But, I think Dearsan's FAC 65 (or a design similar to that) could probably cover those waters, couldn't it?

FAC 65 - Dearsan

dearsan.com

 

[Yasar_TR]

It has to be remembered that the Hisar Class ships are designed with the concept of Fitted But Not With . In other words, they are clean slates ready to receive additions. Hence their initial costs were in the region of 110-120 million dollars each when they were being conceived. (That may have gone up significantly since)
They do not have the expensive gas turbines as the Milgem ships that they were based on. Their radar systems are more economical versions to start with. They come with a very basic armament complement. Probably with less number of Atmaca anti ship missiles. May even have CAKIR missiles instead.
That makes these ships much cheaper to produce.
If needed they can be equipped with better radars and sensors and more effective weapons systems at short notice.
So the more weapons and control systems you add to the ship the more expensive it will become. Also it has to be remembered that having produced 4 hulls for ADA Class, 4 Hulls for Pakistan, 2 Hulls for Ukraine, 2 Hulls for Hisar and now getting ready to produce 3 Hulls for Malaysian LMS and 8 more Hisar ships, the Milgem production line and the eco system that supports it will be fairly efficient and cost effective.
Dearsan may be given the work for the Hisar Class OPVs.

 

[Anmdt]

I wonder what could they be. New batch of Hisars would be the most expected I think. Maybe something bit more special?

"DEARSAN Shipyard will produce 2 warships for the Turkish Navy.

The cost of the two ships is estimated to be in the range of 300-400 million dollars."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820544582787944801

Minesweeper and i think price estimate is highly based on an average corvette price with no further "information".

• 4x Istif
• 4x Hisar OPV
• 1x TT Assault Boat
• 8x LCT
• 1x Mine Hunter
• 1x Military Tug

View attachment 64941

Let's note this, i am certain that minesweeper is there, and the tug or FAC is optional. Since we seem to talk about a contract directly given to the Dearsan it should be a design with no STM involvement, that brings us down to: Tug and Minesweeper. Why not the OPV? Because those hulls will be built by shipyards who has experience on Ada-Class design, possibly Istanbul Naval Shipyard since ASFAT wouldn't prefer to work with RMK&IS.

(Although i am certain Ada shipyard will get a project through STM but still can not name it)

So, $300-400m is a totally made up number.

 

[Anmdt]

It has to be remembered that the Hisar Class ships are designed with the concept of Fitted But Not With . In other words, they are clean slates ready to receive additions. Hence their initial costs were in the region of 110-120 million dollars each when they were being conceived. (That may have gone up significantly since)
They do not have the expensive gas turbines as the Milgem ships that they were based on. Their radar systems are more economical versions to start with. They come with a very basic armament complement. Probably with less number of Atmaca anti ship missiles. May even have CAKIR missiles instead.
That makes these ships much cheaper to produce.
If needed they can be equipped with better radars and sensors and more effective weapons systems at short notice.
So the more weapons and control systems you add to the ship the more expensive it will become. Also it has to be remembered that having produced 4 hulls for ADA Class, 4 Hulls for Pakistan, 2 Hulls for Ukraine, 2 Hulls for Hisar and now getting ready to produce 3 Hulls for Malaysian LMS and 8 more Hisar ships, the Milgem production line and the eco system that supports it will be fairly efficient and cost effective.
Dearsan may be given the work for the Hisar Class OPVs.

I think most of the combatant projects*(except TF-2000 and Hisar) run through STM and the shipyards they are collaborating with. (TAIS, RMK, IS) so i wouldn't expect Dearsan to be named alone if it was the OPV, moreover the minesweeper and FAC** was also hinted in the earlier given breakdown (It was announced in January, i suppose).

*For these two, ASFAT is currently the main contractor and if the ships are built in any privately owned shipyard then we would heard it by ASFAT.

** FAC is continuing by STM, will be constructed by STM in any selected shipyard so, same applies for here.

 

[neosinan]

I wonder what could they be. New batch of Hisars would be the most expected I think. Maybe something bit more special?

"DEARSAN Shipyard will produce 2 warships for the Turkish Navy.

The cost of the two ships is estimated to be in the range of 300-400 million dollars."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820544582787944801

This could be hull price of Hisar but More likely İ class. Ukraine's milgem hull price was lower than this range, 137m$ per ship. Like Usual, Radars and SAM's will have different contracts thus It wont be included in Dearsan's contract.

 

[No Name]

Does the Turkish navy operate any of Dearsan's Corvette C92?





/

 

[Scott Summers]

Turkish I-Class MILGEM Project Gets a Power Boost with Additional LM2500 Engines - Naval News

GE Aerospace has announced that it signed an agreement with the TAIS-STM partnership in Istanbul to supply LM2500 marine gas turbines for the following three I-class frigates.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Khagan1923]

@Anmdt

Looks like again no decision on TF-2000.

At least they decided to aquire new Coastal Tugboats...

 

[Anmdt]

As I have explained here before, TF-2000 is at the functional design stage (some might call it contract design, as it is the crucial step for clarifying the contract and realising the things included in the original contract for the buyer).

This decision was taken by SSIK a year ago and the budget was allocated to ASFAT to be the main contractor for the functional design phase. It's been TN's own decision to shift the design and remove some elements, as well as SSB's contribution to the project in the conceptual design phase, so first of all we had a reset in the conceptual design stage. Overall, therefore, the project is still in the functional design phase and we will not get a mention of the project at the SSIK meeting until this phase has been completed and an estimated budget for the production-construction phase has been finalised.

I am quite in favor of Babcock's AH140 design if our design resources will be allocated entirely for TF-2000 to accelerate the design phase. among those the least importance is on TT-FAB. I find Milgem MLU, ADKG construction and modular unit designs much more meaningful within the given short term - mid term setting.

TF-2000 will start in Naval Shipyard, this is for sure. But the 2nd-4th hulls will be produced by a private shipyard (likely TAIS). CAFRAD will and may continue on the side as long as TF-2000s contract design stage has been completed (which is going on nowadays).

@Anmdt

Looks like again no decision on TF-2000.

At least they decided to aquire new Coastal Tugboats...

Besides the TF-2000 we have got a clear information on the which ship will be constructed by Dearsan, it is coastal tugboat that they have also delivered earlier. (Should be named as Kızılırmak). So Dearsan will construct one coastal tug and one minesweeper, or simply two coastal tug at once and minesweeper will be postponed to next year.

 

[UkroTurk]

which ship will be constructed by Dearsan, it is coastal tugboat that they have also delivered earlier. (Should be named as Kızılırmak). So Dearsan will construct one coastal tug and one minesweeper, or simply two coastal tug at once and minesweeper will be postponed to next year.

What a pity, there won't be F142