TR Navy Naval Programs

[Fatman17]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2090402317858144714

 

[Sanchez]

It's possible that he misspoke and meant Milgem total including Adas. We haven't heard of any follow up order for 4 more.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2091121455874383982

We really do not need 12 Istifs. We need larger, maybe similarly equipped 16-32vls 8 ASM mid size frigates to replace older Gabyas that we can send over for long duties like off Libya.

 

[Pokemonte13]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2091121455874383982

We really do not need 12 Istifs. We need larger, maybe similarly equipped 16-32vls 8 ASM mid size frigates to replace older Gabyas that we can send over for long duties like off Libya.

Maybe there is a flight 2 configuration

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2091121455874383982

We really do not need 12 Istifs. We need larger, maybe similarly equipped 16-32vls 8 ASM mid size frigates to replace older Gabyas that we can send over for long duties like off Libya.

Possibly they intend to sell 2 more istifs on the go remember 2 is already sold to Indonesia, thus adding 4 more to the orders.
On top of that, this also proves neither serial production of TF-2000 is as close as advertised.

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2091121455874383982

We really do not need 12 Istifs. We need larger, maybe similarly equipped 16-32vls 8 ASM mid size frigates to replace older Gabyas that we can send over for long duties like off Libya.

I fully agree with you. If the intention is to sail our flag in blue waters, then İstif class is a limited platform. Long endurance and open seas performance capable 135+ metres long 4500 to 5500 ton frigates are needed.
The aircraft carrier will need at least one may be two tepe class destroyers to accompany it. Also two mid class frigates that can sail in blue waters.

Gabya class frigates are specially built for ocean going duties. But their endurance regarding range is less than İstif and their endurance regarding going without replenishment is similar to İstif.

So we need a frigate that can go long without replenishment and withstand the arduous sailing conditions of open oceans.


EDIT

@Anmdt ’s last post makes sense.
They have sold 2 İstif ships already. So they need to replace those. Add 2 more with a view to sell (if not already promised to another country) . That makes 12 altogether.

 

[UkroTurk]

Gabya class frigates are specially built for ocean going duties. But their endurance regarding range is less than İstif and their endurance regarding going without replenishment is similar to İstif.

So İstif class frigates happened ideal platform for Turkish Navy as well as for others. Do we really need open ocean frigates?

 

[Pokemonte13]

So İstif class frigates happened ideal platform for Turkish Navy as well as for others. Do we really need open ocean frigates?

yes

 

[Yasar_TR]

So İstif class frigates happened ideal platform for Turkish Navy as well as for others. Do we really need open ocean frigates?

Well, you can extend that question to:

Do we really need Aircraft carrier?
Do we really need destroyers?
Did we really need an LHD.?

The simple answer to yours and to mine are NO!
We are not a rich country to spend 1.5 billion dollars on each destroyer and in excess of 4billion for a carrier.

We do not have overseas territories to protect. We do not have direct access to open oceans. So no need for ocean faring ships.

However there is a more complicated answer.

There is the issue of protecting our country’s air power beyond land-based airbases through a carrier.
Also to secure the long Mediterranean-Aegean-Blacksea coastline and protect critical maritime trade routes nearby or off shore, and fulfill strategic defense obligations for NATO in a more expanded capacity.
When majority of your neighbours are not your friends you need to have more say in global matters and exert your influence in regional matters.

Also there is the fait accompli situation that we already have an LHD.
We are already building a carrier and a destroyer. So it is only natural to ask for the correct and suitable ships that should accompany such platforms.
Already there is a base being set up in Somalia and a presence in Qatar. So small İstif frigates will not cut it.

 

[UkroTurk]

Well, you can extend that question

No need to expand further. Regarding information ( İstif class range is as same as Gaby )given by you, I made conclusion İstif class is very capable frigate while covering Mediterranean sea. I just wanted underline Turkish Navy created great optimal solution.

2 or 3 X İstif class frigates could give air defense to LHD or aircraft carrier Incase of Mediterranean operations.

 

[Sanchez]

2 or 3 X İstif class frigates could give air defense to LHD or aircraft carrier Incase of Mediterranean operations

Remain debatable when every possible adversary have both naval and air launched ASMs and soon lots of drones. 16 VLS really won't cut it. Self defense and light convoy duties sure, actual long range air defense outside 25nm is hard, expensive and while Cenk is a nifty search radar, their FCRs are also, eh. They are cheap, we have that going for us. Will work pretty well as part of a group, not at all enough by itself.

 

[Yasar_TR]

No need to expand further. Regarding information ( İstif class range is as same as Gaby )given by you, I made conclusion İstif class is very capable frigate while covering Mediterranean sea. I just wanted underline Turkish Navy created great optimal solution.

2 or 3 X İstif class frigates could give air defense to LHD or aircraft carrier Incase of Mediterranean operations.

That is a little blinkered way of looking at it.
You may ask yourself; Why does Italy have a carrier and a LHD?
Italy doesn’t have overseas territories.
Why do they build 6600 ton Bergamini class frigates?
They have those because of the reasons I gave in previous post.

In the seas west of Greece and Italy, the Mediterranean can develop waves over 10 metres in height. In the Balearic seas wave heights can reach 8 metres quite often with a 100 to 200 metre distance between crests.

To give stability to ships, the beam and length of ship has to be at an optimum value.

Your ships that will protect your carrier and LHD have to be built to withstand the adverse conditions well to be able to accompany your Carrier and LHD.

Istif class is really good for littoral waters. Not for open seas.

 

[Sanchez]

In the seas west of Greece and Italy, the Mediterranean can develop waves over 10 metres in height. In the Balearic seas wave heights can reach 8 metres quite often with a 100 to 200 metre distance between crests.

All modern "warfighting" ships of Italy are 5500+ ton vessels, FREMMs, Orrizontes, the new PPA. Only the lighter armed flag carrying vessels like OPVs and few remaining corvettes are below 2500 ton. With the future PPX and EPC, even those patrol dutied ships are coming close to 3000 ton.

If we are to see 8 Tepe, then fine. 8 destroyers can do anything we do and more; if they are to stay at 4, current planning doesn't exactly cover all our future needs.

 

[Pokemonte13]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2091526927416762701

new orders or construction start?

 

[Pokemonte13]

I don't know if anyone has already said this but Tf 2000 will also get dedicated laser weapon from aselsan stated by akyol.

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2091526927416762701

new orders or construction start?

Man, i wake up to a new day and these guys pump up the number. At least consider omitting the delivered or completed and yet to be delivered ships.

 

[Anmdt]

All modern "warfighting" ships of Italy are 5500+ ton vessels, FREMMs, Orrizontes, the new PPA. Only the lighter armed flag carrying vessels like OPVs and few remaining corvettes are below 2500 ton. With the future PPX and EPC, even those patrol dutied ships are coming close to 3000 ton.

If we are to see 8 Tepe, then fine. 8 destroyers can do anything we do and more; if they are to stay at 4, current planning doesn't exactly cover all our future needs.

I believe we need I-classes especially for blacksea and nearby seas for patrol and protection duties mainly and for escort duties, yet i can't seem to understand strike length VLS for gezgin and siper-2ER.

We need a mid-size frigate, yet also we are quite reluctant to develop one. Too much eggs the basket, the aircraft carrier is definitely not today's business.