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2 old girls and Arif Ekmekçi are returning back to Turkey after more than 8 months. After a much needed maintenance, rest and recuperation, it should make the naval planning a bit easier. Hopefully if there's a second activation of the task group we'll see Hisars instead, though they lack the air defence capabilities Gabyas have.
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It seems that a smaller Turkish company has displayed some smart and cost effective solutions towards increasing threat of swarms of kamikaze USVs and rouge sea mines.
Mr. Özberk who was at Indo Defence tells the system(s) in detail.
“Perhaps the most interesting but not very noticeable product of the Indo Defence fair was SARPAN and THORN, developed by a Turkish company, Aeromac Electronics, to counter drifting mines and kamikaze drone attacks.
SARPAN is dropped on top of the mine by rotary wing drones to neutralize the detected drifting mines. The SARPAN that sticks to the mine is fired remotely to destroy the mine. Thanks to this product, there is no need for EODs or MCM ships to approach the mine, reducing the risk.
THORN is actually a tiny mine. A water anchor coupled to the mine prevents the mine from drifting and the mine swings in a short area. Especially around critical bases and infrastructures, a large number of THORNs are dropped to prevent kamikazes or other purposeful UAVs from entering the area. This is an important countermeasure, for example, to prevent a fleet from being caught off guard while resting. This system, which is quite cheap, can be dropped in hundreds both at sea and on the shore in a few hours and in the event of a mission cancellation, all mines can be neutralized with a single click.
It is a very impressive solution, it shows an out of the box approach against current threats. For more information, I definitely recommend watching the @navalnewscom video I shared below.”
Principle operational process of THORN
*image courtesy of Mr. Tayfun Özberk @TayfunOzberk
Principle operational process of SARPAN
*image courtesy of Mr. Tayfun Özberk @TayfunOzberk
Mr. Özberk who was at Indo Defence tells the system(s) in detail.
“Perhaps the most interesting but not very noticeable product of the Indo Defence fair was SARPAN and THORN, developed by a Turkish company, Aeromac Electronics, to counter drifting mines and kamikaze drone attacks.
SARPAN is dropped on top of the mine by rotary wing drones to neutralize the detected drifting mines. The SARPAN that sticks to the mine is fired remotely to destroy the mine. Thanks to this product, there is no need for EODs or MCM ships to approach the mine, reducing the risk.
THORN is actually a tiny mine. A water anchor coupled to the mine prevents the mine from drifting and the mine swings in a short area. Especially around critical bases and infrastructures, a large number of THORNs are dropped to prevent kamikazes or other purposeful UAVs from entering the area. This is an important countermeasure, for example, to prevent a fleet from being caught off guard while resting. This system, which is quite cheap, can be dropped in hundreds both at sea and on the shore in a few hours and in the event of a mission cancellation, all mines can be neutralized with a single click.
It is a very impressive solution, it shows an out of the box approach against current threats. For more information, I definitely recommend watching the @navalnewscom video I shared below.”
Principle operational process of THORN
*image courtesy of Mr. Tayfun Özberk @TayfunOzberk
Principle operational process of SARPAN
*image courtesy of Mr. Tayfun Özberk @TayfunOzberk
boredaf
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Similar concept can also be applied to USVs with canister launcher drones that could possibly have even longer range to hunt moving targets even further out from the ship.
Also, I wonder if the idea of adding drone launcher to TF2000 is still being considered. Whether in this concept or not, it could have a really interesting impact on survivability of ships.
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76mm, 35mm and 25mm tests of İstanbul to surface and air targets, as well as decoy launches
Fairon
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I hate this kind of videos.
I'd liked to see clear, uninterrupted shots instead of constant cuts in every second.
boredaf
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Yeah, I kept expecting Liam Neeson to come out and start "jumping" a fence while watching.
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İf Houthis use hydrogen in their drones, the fuel cell technology has become totally cheap. So our future midget submarines will have fuel cell technology.
Turkiye is working on multipurpose mini submarine project - Naval News
Turk Loydu Conformity Assessment Services Corporation recently unveiled a new multipurpose mini-submarine project developed by DATUM Submarine Engineering Company.
www.navalnews.com
[Hot Item] 1000W Hydrogen Fuel Cell Pem Fuel Cell for Uav
Height: High Altitude Operating Radius: Remote Size: Small Usage: Multiple Structure: Fixed-Wing UAV Transport Package: Sea Worthy Package
m.made-in-china.com
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MILDEN will have both PEM fuel cell-based AIP and Li-ion batteries.
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I don't understand why there's battery where the submarine has fuel cell?? battery also occupies space and weights. Instead of batteries, they could add more hydrogen fuel??
My smart friend enlightened me:
Elbette! Aşağıda verdiğin bilgiyi İngilizce olarak, teknik bir forumda paylaşmaya uygun şekilde düzenlenmiş haliyle bulabilirsin:
---
Why Do AIP Submarines Still Use Batteries Alongside Fuel Cells?
I've been studying Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems, especially fuel-cell-based ones, and one thing puzzled me: If fuel cells can generate electricity using hydrogen, why do submarines still carry large batteries? Wouldn't it be better to use that space for more hydrogen fuel instead?
Here’s what I’ve learned:
---
1. Batteries Handle Peak Power Demands
Fuel cells produce electricity at a constant and relatively moderate rate. However, submarines often require sudden bursts of high power, such as:
Rapid acceleration or evasive maneuvers
Torpedo launches or activating high-energy systems
Emergency surfacing procedures
Fuel cells can't instantly deliver such high loads — they respond slowly and are designed for endurance, not peak output. That’s where batteries come in. They act as a buffer, delivering large amounts of power in a short time.
---
2. Silence and Stealth
Silence is vital for submarines. Fuel cells are already very quiet, but batteries are even quieter — they have no moving parts and produce zero noise during discharge. This makes them ideal when absolute stealth is required, such as near enemy sonar arrays or in contested waters.
---
3. Hydrogen Storage Limitations
Hydrogen is difficult and risky to store in large quantities:
It’s extremely flammable
Requires high-pressure tanks or cryogenic storage
Takes up valuable internal volume
So, simply "adding more hydrogen" isn't a practical solution. Submarine space is already at a premium, and increasing hydrogen storage introduces safety and design challenges.
---
4. Operational Flexibility
Batteries can be charged and discharged quickly, and they respond instantly to changes in power demand. Even during normal operations, excess electricity from the fuel cells often goes into charging the batteries, so they work together as a hybrid system — much like hybrid electric vehicles.
---
Conclusion:
AIP submarines use both systems for complementary reasons:
Fuel cells provide efficient, silent endurance
Batteries handle short-term, high-power needs and critical stealth scenarios
This hybrid setup gives modern submarines the flexibility and survivability they need in complex underwater environments.
My smart friend enlightened me:
Elbette! Aşağıda verdiğin bilgiyi İngilizce olarak, teknik bir forumda paylaşmaya uygun şekilde düzenlenmiş haliyle bulabilirsin:
---
Why Do AIP Submarines Still Use Batteries Alongside Fuel Cells?
I've been studying Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems, especially fuel-cell-based ones, and one thing puzzled me: If fuel cells can generate electricity using hydrogen, why do submarines still carry large batteries? Wouldn't it be better to use that space for more hydrogen fuel instead?
Here’s what I’ve learned:
---
1. Batteries Handle Peak Power DemandsFuel cells produce electricity at a constant and relatively moderate rate. However, submarines often require sudden bursts of high power, such as:
Rapid acceleration or evasive maneuvers
Torpedo launches or activating high-energy systems
Emergency surfacing procedures
Fuel cells can't instantly deliver such high loads — they respond slowly and are designed for endurance, not peak output. That’s where batteries come in. They act as a buffer, delivering large amounts of power in a short time.
---
2. Silence and StealthSilence is vital for submarines. Fuel cells are already very quiet, but batteries are even quieter — they have no moving parts and produce zero noise during discharge. This makes them ideal when absolute stealth is required, such as near enemy sonar arrays or in contested waters.
---
3. Hydrogen Storage LimitationsHydrogen is difficult and risky to store in large quantities:
It’s extremely flammable
Requires high-pressure tanks or cryogenic storage
Takes up valuable internal volume
So, simply "adding more hydrogen" isn't a practical solution. Submarine space is already at a premium, and increasing hydrogen storage introduces safety and design challenges.
---
4. Operational FlexibilityBatteries can be charged and discharged quickly, and they respond instantly to changes in power demand. Even during normal operations, excess electricity from the fuel cells often goes into charging the batteries, so they work together as a hybrid system — much like hybrid electric vehicles.
---
Conclusion:AIP submarines use both systems for complementary reasons:
Fuel cells provide efficient, silent endurance
Batteries handle short-term, high-power needs and critical stealth scenarios
This hybrid setup gives modern submarines the flexibility and survivability they need in complex underwater environments.
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Then next question 
---
Can Lithium-Ion Batteries Replace Hydrogen Fuel Cells in Submarines?
Short answer:
Not yet. Lithium-ion batteries offer significant advantages, but they cannot fully replace hydrogen fuel cells in terms of underwater endurance for now. Let’s break it down:
---
1. Lithium-Ion Batteries: Big Leap Over Lead-Acid
Modern lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries — like those used in Japan’s Taigei-class or Germany’s upgraded Type 212CD — are a major improvement over old-school lead-acid batteries:
Higher energy density (more energy in less space/weight)
Faster charging/discharging
Longer cycle life
Lower maintenance and thermal issues
This allows submarines to stay underwater longer than with traditional batteries — in some cases a few days at low speeds — and operate more stealthily due to silent running.
---
2. Fuel Cells Still Win in Endurance
Despite all that, fuel cells still provide longer underwater endurance because:
They generate electricity continuously as long as hydrogen and oxygen are available.
They can keep the sub submerged for 2 to 3 weeks without needing to snorkel or surface.
Lithium-ion batteries are storage devices, not generators. Once they’re drained, you must surface or snorkel to recharge them — which compromises stealth and survivability.
---
3. Hybrid Future: Not Either-Or
Many future submarine designs combine both:
Fuel cells for long-duration silent patrol
Lithium-ion batteries for high-power bursts and rapid response
This hybrid system maximizes flexibility and mission adaptability.
---
Summary:
Lithium-ion batteries are superior to traditional batteries and enable longer submerged operation.
But they don’t match the underwater endurance of hydrogen fuel cell AIP systems — especially for extended patrols.
The future likely lies in hybrid architectures combining both.
-
---
Can Lithium-Ion Batteries Replace Hydrogen Fuel Cells in Submarines?Short answer:
Not yet. Lithium-ion batteries offer significant advantages, but they cannot fully replace hydrogen fuel cells in terms of underwater endurance for now. Let’s break it down:
---
1. Lithium-Ion Batteries: Big Leap Over Lead-AcidModern lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries — like those used in Japan’s Taigei-class or Germany’s upgraded Type 212CD — are a major improvement over old-school lead-acid batteries:
Higher energy density (more energy in less space/weight)
Faster charging/discharging
Longer cycle life
Lower maintenance and thermal issues
This allows submarines to stay underwater longer than with traditional batteries — in some cases a few days at low speeds — and operate more stealthily due to silent running.
---
2. Fuel Cells Still Win in EnduranceDespite all that, fuel cells still provide longer underwater endurance because:
They generate electricity continuously as long as hydrogen and oxygen are available.
They can keep the sub submerged for 2 to 3 weeks without needing to snorkel or surface.
Lithium-ion batteries are storage devices, not generators. Once they’re drained, you must surface or snorkel to recharge them — which compromises stealth and survivability.
---
3. Hybrid Future: Not Either-OrMany future submarine designs combine both:
Fuel cells for long-duration silent patrol
Lithium-ion batteries for high-power bursts and rapid response
This hybrid system maximizes flexibility and mission adaptability.
---
Summary:Lithium-ion batteries are superior to traditional batteries and enable longer submerged operation.
But they don’t match the underwater endurance of hydrogen fuel cell AIP systems — especially for extended patrols.
The future likely lies in hybrid architectures combining both.
-
Strong AI
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I hope this can be modified enough to statisfy the needs of our navy.
Pokemonte13
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is this for Mugem or second LHD
boredaf
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My bet would be on Trakya, since he mentions talks with Spain about it. One that is specialised in being a drone carrier most likely.
TF2000 in a fresher mood
BalkanTurk90
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(Almost corvette size
)- National Fast Attack Boat Technical Specifications
Length: 68.00 m
Maximum Beam: 9.3 m Displacement: 700 tons
Maximum Speed: 39+ knots Transport Speed: 20 knots
Cruise Range: Minimum 800 Nautical Miles
Accommodation for 36 personnel
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This is not a FAC (Fast Attack Craft). This is a light corvette or we can call it a heavy gunboat, to bring back gunboat legacy.View attachment 76572
(Almost corvette size
- National Fast Attack Boat Technical Specifications
Length: 68.00 m
Maximum Beam: 9.3 m Displacement: 700 tons
Maximum Speed: 39+ knots Transport Speed: 20 knots
Cruise Range: Minimum 800 Nautical Miles
Accommodation for 36 personnel
IMHO, Navy still needs a true FAC design to complement this, optimized for speed and firepower instead of endurance and tonnage. It can be either manned or unmanned. Speed around 55 knots 8x SSM+smaller tactical missiles, 35mm CIWS at the front, RAM at the back. 400-450 tonnes displacement.
Pokemonte13
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So let me get this straight navy is getting in the next 10 years or so 7 new frigates min. 4 destroyers an aircraft carrier another larger LHD 6-10 Hissar Opv ,10 Fac plus 7 new submarines(5 Reis + 2 Milden) or did i miss something
