Pakistan Pakistan Navy Milgem Project

[Waz]

Bro, The ranges are as Combat told. Addition to Hisar-O+ variants, Siper missiles will be joined to inventory in 2022/23 and This missile will be integrated to Naval platforms like Tf2000 and maybe I class frigates. I am expecting a range much longer than 120-130km. Acc to Mr. Ismail DEMIR, Turkish institutes will reveal a new missile that is going to fill the gap between Siper and Hisar-O+ as well.

Oh no doubt brother, and this all coincides with the development of the large Turkish ship classes. Pakistan would opt for everything to be Turkish on their own ships.
The 130km range target for the HISAR-O is very eagerly awaited.

 

[Waz]

What about training,are there PN personnel in China and Türkiye?

Yes have been for a few years now.

 

[Bilal Khan(Quwa)]

Looks it, although it would better if they kept in line with international categories.
Jinnah class frigate will certainly be a piece of work. I have a feeling it will be a variant of the large TF2000 Turkish frigate.

The PN actually is following international conventions:

e.g., Qatar's al-Zubarah-class 'corvette' is 3,250 tons: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/11/qatars-new-air-defense-corvette-starts-sea-trials/

e.g., Egypt's Gowind 2500 'corvette' is 2,500 tons: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...-first-locally-built-el-fateh-class-corvette/

 

[Waz]

The PN actually is following international conventions:

e.g., Qatar's al-Zubarah-class 'corvette' is 3,250 tons: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/11/qatars-new-air-defense-corvette-starts-sea-trials/

e.g., Egypt's Gowind 2500 'corvette' is 2,500 tons: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...-first-locally-built-el-fateh-class-corvette/

There's a variation, but usually anything near 3,000 tones or above has a frigate designation e.g. Floreal Class, Bremen Class, MEKO 200, Daegu Class etc.
But you also get Kamorta class and of course the examples above.

 

[Hexciter]

Hisar-ORf

Hisar-OIIR

Bro, there’s significant structural difference on the front canard structure and placement. Due to easy manufacturing both missile in a single manufacturing line, it’s better to have same propulsion section. So I’m expecting structural change in Hisar-O+ IIR

 

[Hexciter]

The PN actually is following international conventions:

e.g., Qatar's al-Zubarah-class 'corvette' is 3,250 tons: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/11/qatars-new-air-defense-corvette-starts-sea-trials/

e.g., Egypt's Gowind 2500 'corvette' is 2,500 tons: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...-first-locally-built-el-fateh-class-corvette/

Naming decision depends what the user want to call them as. There’s no rules over there. They can name a 800 t ship as frigate. But the international reporters call them after as very small corvette sized frigate

 

[Bilal Khan(Quwa)]

There's a variation, but usually anything near 3,000 tones or above has a frigate designation e.g. Floreal Class, Bremen Class, MEKO 200, Daegu Class etc.
But you also get Kamorta class and of course the examples above.

Sounds like ship classifications built after 2018 changed to cover bigger ships.

 

[ekemenirtu]

Pakistan Navy may want to look into acquiring more surface combatants with adequate VLS cells. A simplified target may be to acquire about 200 VLS cells by 2030 and expand the count to 300 by 2035.

Perhaps, that may appear implausible at this time. I would be eager to know what numbers Pakistani or other members think would be easier to attain by 2030 and 2035.

How many VLS cells do you think Pakistan Navy should aim for by 2030 and by 2035?

 

[adenl]

Pakistan Navy may want to look into acquiring more surface combatants with adequate VLS cells. A simplified target may be to acquire about 200 VLS cells by 2030 and expand the count to 300 by 2035.

Perhaps, that may appear implausible at this time. I would be eager to know what numbers Pakistani or other members think would be easier to attain by 2030 and 2035.

How many VLS cells do you think Pakistan Navy should aim for by 2030 and by 2035?

Well, 4x type 054AP has 32*4=128 and 4 Jinnah class have 4*16=64. Add this together and you have 128+64=192 VLS cells by 2025. So the 200 number could be easily reached by 2030 and depending on what the PN requirements are, they could expand that to 300 VLS by 2035.

 

[Anmdt]

The PN actually is following international conventions:

e.g., Qatar's al-Zubarah-class 'corvette' is 3,250 tons: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/11/qatars-new-air-defense-corvette-starts-sea-trials/

e.g., Egypt's Gowind 2500 'corvette' is 2,500 tons: https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...-first-locally-built-el-fateh-class-corvette/

Since when Qatar defines the international norms, actually since when they have an actual navy?

Corvettes are up to 3000 tonnes,
Frigates are from 2500 -6000
Destroyers from 5000 - xx

There isn't any rule on how these classes are defined but it is a general understanding. Not accurate to sharply divide it at some tonnage.

Tonnage is not the single indicator either some countries insists on calling frigate sized vessels because of the fact that they are going to be used in coastal waters.

While others may call a 2500 tonnes vessel frigate because it is used in blue waters.

Well, 4x type 054AP has 32*4=128 and 4 Jinnah class have 4*16=64. Add this together and you have 128+64=192 VLS cells by 2025. So the 200 number could be easily reached by 2030 and depending on what the PN requirements are, they could expand that to 300 VLS by 2035.

Dont forget power of quad packing.

 

[Bilal Khan(Quwa)]

Since when Qatar defines the international norms, actually since when they have an actual navy?

Corvettes are up to 3000 tonnes,
Frigates are from 2500 -6000
Destroyers from 5000 - xx

There isn't any rule on how these classes are defined but it is a general understanding. Not accurate to sharply divide it at some tonnage.

Tonnage is not the single indicator either some countries insists on calling frigate sized vessels because of the fact that they are going to be used in coastal waters.

While others may call a 2500 tonnes vessel frigate because it is used in blue waters.


Dont forget power of quad packing.

My point was more on the fact the PN isn't using the terms randomly, but seems to be mirroring some current trends elsewhere.

 

[Waz]

Well, 4x type 054AP has 32*4=128 and 4 Jinnah class have 4*16=64. Add this together and you have 128+64=192 VLS cells by 2025. So the 200 number could be easily reached by 2030 and depending on what the PN requirements are, they could expand that to 300 VLS by 2035.

On top of this we have the 6 ship project which will be built with Turkey, I guess modelled on the TF2000. That's also additional VLS capacity, although that may not be met by the 2030 timeline.

 

[Anmdt]

 

[Siper>MMU]

View attachment 18467

These AShM canisters are so long and wide compared to other AShMs. What missiles are these?

 

[Nutuk]

Is that how the Ukrainian Milgem will be?

Damn even Ukraine gets a better milgem than us.

 

[Siper>MMU]

Is that how the Ukrainian Milgem will be?

Damn even Ukraine gets a better milgem than us.

Ours will receive MLU in next years (5-7 years I guess). But problem is what to fit? There is not enough space for VLS.

 

[Anmdt]

Is that how the Ukrainian Milgem will be?

Damn even Ukraine gets a better milgem than us.

That is PN Milgem project,
They haven't yet shown Ukrainian Milgems but in a RfP document it had same dimensions as Ada-Class.
And since Ukrainian sources has told they have chosen MICA as AD missiles, and MICA is pretty short ~ 3 meters so i wonder where they are going to fit it, there are some options.
For Ukraine's Ada-class i had the following info as it was written on a document, however some parts of the document may not be up to date:

Corvette production might have started in first week of April (according to a RfP file i have seen) in a private shipyard.
The shipyard might be a little surprising.
Turkish personnel will also be working in Ukraine for construction/assembly/integration in most of the jobs. System Integration of 1st and 2nd vessel will be carried out by Turkish personnel in Ukraine.
Dimensions are exactly same as Ada-Class, if the data on RfP is accurate or an estimation.
Contract is only made for the first ship so far.

 

[Anmdt]

These AShM canisters are so long and wide compared to other AShMs. What missiles are these?

MILGEM Corvette

On 05 July 2018, the Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) signed a deal with Turkey’s Military Factory and Shipyard Corporation (ASFAT A.Ş.) for the purchase of four customized MILGEM Ada corvettes for the Pakistan

quwa.org

Fast Attack Craft Test-fired 'Harbah' Missile - C4 Defence

Fast Attack Craft Test-fired 'Harbah' Missile

www.c4defence.com

Quwa says it may be Harbah dual-purpose cruise missile.

 

[Bilal Khan(Quwa)]

The PN MILGEMs will likely use Harbah or the in-development supersonic-cruising ASCM.

There's also a ship-based ASBM program (P282).

 

[Test7]

Keel Laying Ceremony of third PN MILGEM Class Corvette for Pakistan Navy Held in Istanbul​

Keel laying ceremony of the second PN MILGEM-Jinnah Class Corvette being constructed for the Pakistan Navy was Held today at Istanbul Naval Shipyard, Turkey.​

April 30, 2021

Commodore Ehsan Ahmed KHAN, Chief Naval Overseer of Turkey of Pakistan Navy stationed at Istanbul Naval Shipyard was the chief guest. Senior management of MSB ASFAT, INSY, representatives from Turkish Loyd and other dignitaries as well as Naval Attache of Pakistan Embassy Ankara Captain Mazhar BASHIR attended the ceremony.

While addressing guests at the ceremony, Commodore EHSAN said today’s event is a defining moment to further cement the bonds of brotherhood and friendship between the two strategically aligned nations with common values, culture and faith. He acknowledged the commitment and dedication of ASFAT, Istanbul Naval Shipyard and Turkish Ministry of National Defence for meeting the challenging construction schedule despite ongoing global pandemic.

The event marked an important milestone in the construction schedule for the 2nd MILGEM Corvette for the Pakistan Navy. Pakistan Navy has concluded a contract with ASFAT for construction of four corvettes out of which two are being constructed at INSY whereas the remaining two are being constructed at Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works.

These corvettes will be fitted with state of the art surface, sub-surface and anti-air weapons and sensors integrated through an advanced Network Centric Combat Management System.

The induction of MILGEM corvettes will significantly enhance maritime defence and deterrence capabilities of Pakistan Navy which will ensure secure and stable seas. These corvettes will become a core element of Pakistan Navy’s kinetic response to traditional and non-traditional challenges and to maintain balance of power in the Indian Ocean Region.

Source:

Keel Laying Ceremony of 2nd PN MILGEM Class Corvette for Pakistan Navy Held in Istanbul

Keel laying ceremony of the second PN MILGEM-Jinnah Class Corvette being constructed for the Pakistan Navy was Held today at Istanbul Naval Shipyard, Turkey.

www.defenceturkey.com