Pakistan turning Gwadar into open prison on China’s order

Saithan

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If it helps develop the city /area then it's great. As it looks quite nice.

I think it's important to pay attention that the elected people responsible for the area with the help/support could make the place shine.

Now if only you could have officials who're autocrats that process might speed up.

Also you'd need to have bars/cafe and restaurants and other nice stuff that attracts people.

@Kaptaan is right that blond babes from countries like Ukraine would be nice addition to that place especially if it makes the sheiks sail across and spend some money in 5 star all inclusive hotels :)

However some investments are needed before that dream can take off.

@Saiyan0321 I agree that cam and checkpoints are necessary in countries where you have militia / terrorists hurting local community.

I've driven through some of these checkpoints in Philippines (Mindanao) and they're there to give people some security.

I'm all for implementing street camera in the most exposed provinces, areas. Both Turkey and Pakistan is in severe need of increase security for the local population that wants peace.
 

Saiyan0321

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@Kaptaan is right that blond babes from countries like Ukraine would be nice addition to that place especially if it makes the sheiks sail across and spend some money in 5 star all inclusive hotels :)
Yeah to do that, we are gonna have to remove alot of Islamic from Pakistan. The elite would love nothing else as they will be enjoying it over there however the rest will be declaring jihad against the state if we make gwadar into nevada and las vegas.
 

Madokafc

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When other countries wanna to attract foreign talent and building a working government with better economy policy and free movements access toward their population to increase mobility of goods and services, Pakistani instead build fence around large port city (build in the first place as Central for export hub port) and restrict the movements of their own people to protect their Chinese "friend". The logics to build them, Gwadar Port" in the first place is bust the moments the fence being erected and 15,000 military personnel being deployed.
 

Nilgiri

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This is not just the need of the hour but an absolute necessity not just in Gwadar but in quetta and other places as well. Sensitive places must be protected. Here is the thing, the militants will always target areas which are most likely to get coverage which means that they are more likely to attack lahore than Sheikhupura or Kasur which means that Lahore must have greater security and protection and it does. We cannot forget that Pakistan has come out of an era of extreme militancy and baluchistan especially.

When lahore was being made home to a bunch of check posts, i remember fences and barriers being placed on a whole road outside IG office or secretariat or court or the ministry of agriculture, all these were near Rewaz garden where we have property. Infact some of my friends would joke that you are living at strike zone due to close proximity of highly highly sensitive places and i should leave for Cantt or Bahria Town, which were extremely fenced areas of lahore and still are. My answer to that was, not leaving this place no matter what. I saw first hand the difficulties these barriers created however that entire setup, worked and Lahore actually became secure. There are, to this day, checkposts at the entrance of the city and i cannot deny their effectiveness and how they have helped secure the city.

in 2018 there came another problem whioch was discussed which was whether lahore's safe city project was a violation of one's fundamental right most notably the cameras which violated the right to privacy. All this was argued then and even then, those that be walking on the streets or going to college and would hear that a bombing had happened in lahore or even hear the sound of blast or the sounds of ambulances and police to this day sends the signals to the brain that something has happened even if its just a protocol of a Minister :p. All of them argued that safe city projects are necessary and they also contributed in greater investigation of crime as well as in security of the city.

Gwadar, whether CPEC is a failure or not, is an important city and project and if nothing else, the limelight alone will see the city targeted again and again thus these areas must be secured, Lahore is naturally enclosed due to the river ravi whereas areas like bahria town are enclosed fences and we should do something similar for Gwadar. Fence the city and secure it and if it saves one life, then it was successful. We also need to consider that there is, as in all things, nationalist politics and vested interests. When we were building check points and torkham custom policy the most resistance was faced from the traders which repeatedly fought against the secure policy and visa policy of the border terminal.

The difference between an enclosed fence and not. back in 2010 my friend from bahria town would say two things that pissed everyone off

That there is no loadshedding. what is that? 12 hour outages? what!?? You guys are jesting, that doesnt happen

insecurity? i read about the attacks but i often go for walks at 1 am or to cinema for the post midnight show and its all secure. what crime?

From this aspect, completely agree. Provision of security, law and order is a must.
 

Zapper

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Chinese President Xi Jinping is known for his assertiveness and aggression to install his country at the top in the global pecking order. He has started this long and arduous mission, with a usual clandestine Chinese vision, since his coming to power in 2012.
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His gargantuan “China Dream” to rejuvenate the nation and the most ambitious “Belt and Road Initiative” (BRI) have together caused geopolitical concerns, particularly for Asian powers like India.

Undoubtedly, Xi could rightly be called as the reincarnation of late Chairman Mao Zedong. Xi has become the only Chinese leader who has accumulated so much power and position, either in the name of launching China as a global leader or curbing corruption and misgovernance both within and outside the Communist Party of China (CPC).


So today, what is fast unfolding in Pakistan’s Gwadar Port, located in its western province of disturbed Balochistan, is just the tip of an iceberg, which is uncovered in front of the international community.

The very presence of China in this port city is absolutely decried by the locals and especially by the Baloch nationalists, who have already been fighting a long war with the federal Government of Pakistan, on various other issues.

Gwadar Port is a warm water deep seaport situated on the Arabian Sea. It is strategically located between South Asia, Central Asia and West Asia at the mouth of the Persian Gulf, just outside the Strait of Hormuz. This critical port has been leased to China by the Pakistani Government for a period of 43 years i.e. up till 2059, starting from 2015.

As per Chinese media reports, the port was upgraded at a cost of $1.62 billion. Most importantly, Gwadar is at the vortex of $50 billion (41 billion Euro), much talked about and controversial China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC). Further, the CPEC is an integral part of Xi’s signature initiative of the BRI.

Gwadar Port came to light way back in the year 1954. During the regime of former President Pervez Musharraf, he launched the construction of the port in 2007, at a cost of $248 million. However, in 2015, the port was made a part of the CPEC to connect western China and northern Pakistan. This port will also be a site for a floating liquefied natural gas as a part of the larger $2.5 billion Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline project, connecting Gwadar with Nawabshah.

The CPEC is a 3,218 kilometre long route that is aimed to link Gwadar to Xinxiang Province in western China. And this corridor consists of highways, railways and gas pipelines that could trigger an economy of billion dollars once it is completed.

The Gwadar Special Economic Zone is built around an area of 2,292 acres near the Gwadar Port. The project of Gwadar Sea Port became operational on November 14, 2016 during the time of former Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. But it is worthwhile to see how this port area could serve China’s long term strategic interests.

In a China Maritime Report on Gwadar, the port has been described as a “Strategic Strong point” in the Indian Ocean. The officials, military officers and civilian analysts of China typically employ the “Strategic Strongpoint” concept to describe certain strategically valuable foreign ports with terminals and commercial zones owned and operated by Chinese firms. The top Chinese policy-makers believe that Gwadar, an inchoate point in friendly Pakistan which may certainly support as a major platform for their countries economic, diplomatic and military interactions around the northern Indian region.

China’s strong presence in the Gwadar Port area and in the CPEC across the POK will boost Beijing’s security and business interests in the long run. In reality, China has responded to America’s grand Indo-Pacific strategy that has been long there in place in this zone, apart from its presence in Gwadar Port, Beijing has taken a number of crucial steps to develop its own network around the Indo-Pacific and specifically in the Indian Ocean Rim region. Further, the Indo-Pacific is a strategic area through which two-thirds of the global trade and 80 per cent of the Chinese oil passes. And the most important element in the Indo-Pacific is that all the countries such as India, China, Australia, Japan and the US which are zealously guarding their interests here geographically falls in the region only.

But now the fast-changing geopolitical scenario has made it so that India, Japan, Australia and the US are coming together under the banner of the Quad Group to counter China in the Indo-Pacific. US President Donald Trump has pushed the Sino-US rivalry to all time high. And in the midst of the Covid-19 global pandemic and last American presidential poll, Trump has got another opportunity to brand China as its grand enemy in the globe. It is expected that even now, under the President-elect Jo Biden, the Sino-US relations may not return to normalcy. However, the Team Biden may easily stitch up a working relationship between Washington and Beijing for sure.

These all will have serious impact on Beijing’s future grand strategy towards expansionist game across the world, particularly along the BRI nations. With a belligerent US, a constant border clash with neighbouring India and massive disturbances constantly emerging from Hong Kong, Xinjiang, South China Sea and from Taiwan, Xi will be certainly bolstering his mission to reach out to countries such as Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal and of course Pakistan. And herein, the developments in Gwadar Port will be very critical for China.

It is noted that Pakistan has been gradually moving into Chinese arms. This has happened both because of Trump’s decision to cut all funding to that country and an army-backed Imran Khan Government’s decision to play a junior partner role in China’s BRI. Regional experts say that China is soon replacing America as its most important security partner and guarantor. What Beijing expects from Islamabad is an unhindered access to the Indian Ocean as the former is trying to encircle India from all corners. It is estimated that Chinese investment in Pakistan is going to cross $46 billion by 2030. It is simply a serious course change for Pakistan as it is increasingly relying on China for its economic and military assistance instead of the US. This is a game-changing narrative in the power positioning on India’s North-Western frontier.

The current Gwadar Fencing Project launched by the Pakistani Government around the CPEC corridor in the city is sending strong negative vibes to the locals. It is done under the supervision of the federal and provincial authorities. It is hoped that the fencing project, once completed will completely change the security dynamics of the port city. The Balochistan Provincial Government aims to fence off around 24 square kilometre area that is devoted to the building of the CPEC project. It is learnt that there will be only two entry points to the fenced parts of the city and nearly 500 surveillance cameras will be installed to monitor the movements of people in and around the project area. This will turn the city into a fortress, ironically to secure Chinese business and security interests, not to promote the welfare of the poor Baloch people.

The primary objective of fencing is to safeguard the project from the Baloch nationalists who has been voicing concerns against Chinese grand strategy from the beginning. Again, this new design of security network might force many locals to relocate from the port area.

Now the raging argument in Balochistan is that why Islamabad is allowing Beijing to make one of its provinces a Chinese colony? Is that so that the Imran Government is intentionally pushing its belligerent province of Balochistan to the debt-trap of China? It is true that with strong Chinese presence in the port city, Pakistan will be assured that for the coming 43 years (lease time period of the port), there will some signs of development in the most neglected region of the country.

Despite being the most resourceful province of the country, Islamabad has simply ignored the concerns of the Baloch people for decades since independence. Today, Balochistan is recorded as a law and order problem in the lexicon of Pakistan’s establishment. And it is the responsibility of the country’s “Deep State” i.e. the Army to oversee, manage and put down the flames of civil unrest in this part of Pakistan. The successive civilian administrations in Islamabad have directly ignored the local demands for which a constant rage against the federal Government has grown over the years.

Above all, when China has landed up in Gwadar Port, one of crucial cities of the province, the locals see no end of their longstanding problems. Rather, with increasing fortification of the city, will certainly create an atmosphere of fear and alienation among the people of the port city in particular and the Baloch in general.

Truly speaking, it is a disturbing signal. Very soon, Pakistan will realise how it will turn out to be a new protectorate zone of China.

https://www.dailypioneer.com/2020/columnists/pak-falling-into-china---s-imperial-design.html
 

xizhimen

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What is this " dailypioneer"? Some people hate to see the close friendship between China and Pakistan, it's not a secret.
 

xizhimen

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China and Pakistan have a hand and glove friendship for 7 decades already, and Pakistan used to be much richer than China 30 years ago, what do you call the friendship during that period?still imperial design? by which side?
 

Kaptaan

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China and Pakistan have a hand and glove friendship for 7 decades already, and Pakistan used to be much richer than China 30 years ago, what do you call the friendship during that period?still imperial design? by which side?
Honestly, I wish Gwadar was given to the Chinese. I am a British born, British educated person whose outlook is very western-centric. I am loyal to queen and country. My brother serves in the police, my son is a tax specialist in HMRC [Her Majesties Revenue and Customs], my daughter is employed by DFE [Department for Education] and is policy advisor. I lead a very comfortable life.

However my origins are from Pakistan and naturally I feel for those connections. I hate seeing Pakistani's [most are proud people] risking life and dignity to reach Europe as illegal migrants. Just to be sure there are superpower Indians also hiding in trucks to Europe but my thoughts are for the Pakistani's.

This tells me a lot. The human need for economic survival is major force and need. They are nopt chasing Islam, they are not chasing god but chasing a chance to live a economically secure life and for that they will risk their lives.

I believe sincerely that China offers Pakistan a way to a future economic development. Thus despite my natural bias against China which is congruent to having been brought up in UK feel China is force for good for Pakistan. So if a a rock and sand on the Arabian Sea event was given to China I would be happy with that as it helps Pakistan in one small way to reach economic fruition. And hopefully the day young Pakistani don't have to risk their lives to go abroad.

In the meantime if Indian's who we all know are not exactly Pakistan's well wishers cry crocodile tears it tells me something good is going on. It is negative validation by the enemy.
 

Saithan

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Honestly, I wish Gwadar was given to the Chinese. I am a British born, British educated person whose outlook is very western-centric. I am loyal to queen and country. My brother serves in the police, my son is a tax specialist in HMRC [Her Majesties Revenue and Customs], my daughter is employed by DFE [Department for Education] and is policy advisor. I lead a very comfortable life.

However my origins are from Pakistan and naturally I feel for those connections. I hate seeing Pakistani's [most are proud people] risking life and dignity to reach Europe as illegal migrants. Just to be sure there are superpower Indians also hiding in trucks to Europe but my thoughts are for the Pakistani's.

This tells me a lot. The human need for economic survival is major force and need. They are nopt chasing Islam, they are not chasing god but chasing a chance to live a economically secure life and for that they will risk their lives.

I believe sincerely that China offers Pakistan a way to a future economic development. Thus despite my natural bias against China which is congruent to having been brought up in UK feel China is force for good for Pakistan. So if a a rock and sand on the Arabian Sea event was given to China I would be happy with that as it helps Pakistan in one small way to reach economic fruition. And hopefully the day young Pakistani don't have to risk their lives to go abroad.

In the meantime if Indian's who we all know are not exactly Pakistan's well wishers cry crocodile tears it tells me something good is going on. It is negative validation by the enemy.
Something like Hong Kong for Gwadar ? But that would require the chinese to really invest in it like how the brits did.

I honestly do not know how much production investment the chinese does compared to the brits.

I do however think that Gwadar should be policed by Pakistan and the judiary system and city council as well.

This is due to keeping it in line with rest of the country.

What I would hate to see is that Pakistan is used as transit for goods from China to Gwadar bypassing everything else, thus in princip everything is produced in China and they use Gwadar port for export to Africa, EU etc.
 

Waz

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When other countries wanna to attract foreign talent and building a working government with better economy policy and free movements access toward their population to increase mobility of goods and services, Pakistani instead build fence around large port city (build in the first place as Central for export hub port) and restrict the movements of their own people to protect their Chinese "friend". The logics to build them, Gwadar Port" in the first place is bust the moments the fence being erected and 15,000 military personnel being deployed.

No one has "restricted" the movement of the people who live there, aside sensitive installations/areas, every nations has that. It's for security. I couldn't even comment on the rest of your post as it made no sense.
 
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Kaptaan

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I do however think that Gwadar should be policed by Pakistan and the judiary system and city council as well.
It will be. One of the issues with Pakistan and a major impedimemt in my opinion is they are way too touchy and sensitive about foreign countries, particularly non Muslim prescence within Pakistan. They will go and start rioting over percieved 'foreign hands' inside Pakistan. Even size of embassies in Islamabad are subject of much conspiracy theories. If few dozen visas are given to American officials, Pakistani's will start talking of threat to Pakistan's security. If a major corporation like PIA hires a German director there will be screams of national security threat. Pakistani's are disgustingly xenophobic to non-Musims. And athiests are so low in the collective Pakistani psyche that fall below the minus scale.

Pakistani's would never for instance accept NATO Incirllik style base in Pakistan. Even if such a base was allowed by the government it would need a entire infantry division to guard it. No government in Pakistan would last very long if it agree to this.

Given this reality it is inconceivable that Gwadar would be given to Chinese. Inconceivable. In fact Chinese are more at home Istanbul then Islamabad. So when I hear this propaganda by a certain country using the "China threat" I find it hilarious. I wish Pakistan was more open to the outside world. It could do with some Chinese influence. But that is not the case.

It's one thing for Premier Xi to shake hands with PM Imran Khan or diplomats of both countries sing songs. The reality is Chinese people are so alien to Pakistani culture that the tw will never mix. For most Pakistani's Chinese are 'long distance love'. They have never mingled with them and just hear the hype. However recently because of major CPEC projects there has been increase in Chinese engineers and workers working on projects. For the first time the two people mingled. Guess what happened? Fist fights, stabbing. The Chinese began snorting pork or looking for good time girls. That brought them in direct confrontation in the conservative rural areas where they were working. The Chinese required police escort after that. There were even reports of scuffles with the police and Chinese.

With regards to Gwadar it should noted that this region [Balochistan] is extremely sparesly populated. Much of it is desert [geographically it is extension of Middle East] and cold high altitide mountain with limited precipitation other than snow in the winter. Gwadar town's population is only slightly over 100,000 and was a tiny fishing village only a decade ago.

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Saithan

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It will be. One of the issues with Pakistan and a major impedimemt in my opinion is they are way too touchy and sensitive about foreign countries, particularly non Muslim prescence within Pakistan. They will go and start rioting over percieved 'foreign hands' inside Pakistan. Even size of embassies in Islamabad are subject of much conspiracy theories. If few dozen visas are given to American officials, Pakistani's will start talking of threat to Pakistan's security. If a major corporation like PIA hires a German director there will be screams of national security threat. Pakistani's are disgustingly xenophobic to non-Musims. And athiests are so low in the collective Pakistani psyche that fall below the minus scale.

Pakistani's would never for instance accept NATO Incirllik style base in Pakistan. Even if such a base was allowed by the government it would need a entire infantry division to guard it. No government in Pakistan would last very long if it agree to this.

Given this reality it is inconceivable that Gwadar would be given to Chinese. Inconceivable. In fact Chinese are more at home Istanbul then Islamabad. So when I hear this propaganda by a certain country using the "China threat" I find it hilarious. I wish Pakistan was more open to the outside world. It could do with some Chinese influence. But that is not the case.

It's one thing for Premier Xi to shake hands with PM Imran Khan or diplomats of both countries sing songs. The reality is Chinese people are so alien to Pakistani culture that the tw will never mix. For most Pakistani's Chinese are 'long distance love'. They have never mingled with them and just hear the hype. However recently because of major CPEC projects there has been increase in Chinese engineers and workers working on projects. For the first time the two people mingled. Guess what happened? Fist fights, stabbing. The Chinese began snorting pork or looking for good time girls. That brought them in direct confrontation in the conservative rural areas where they were working. The Chinese required police escort after that. There were even reports of scuffles with the police and Chinese.

With regards to Gwadar it should noted that this region [Balochistan] is extremely sparesly populated. Much of it is desert [geographically it is extension of Middle East] and cold high altitide mountain with limited precipitation other than snow in the winter. Gwadar town's population is only slightly over 100,000 and was a tiny fishing village only a decade ago.

View attachment 10172

View attachment 10173
Holds massive potential though, and I can’t really fault the mistrust of foreigners especially western countries. As companies from these countries seldomly invest for the betterment of a country, but mostly because of profit.

Whilst the alternative like China is state sponsored investment with clear strategic goal. Comparing it with Turkish TIKA, and ppl would say it’s the same thing. Only important difference is, Turkey is a democracy, and politicians are swapped out in this system, which guarentees some kind of security to beneficiary countries.
 

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