Personal concepts - Sea

Anmdt

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Everything ok but SUNGUR .
Sungur is just pedestal mounted MANPAD which is very limited capacity and range.
How could engage SUNGUR anti-ship missiles which maneuver and skim?
How could patrol vessels engage with SUNGUR onto MALE UAV that flying over 7000m altitude.

Türkish variant of C-Dome ( it is said to be developing) which has compact shape Linked with MAR-D will be horror for any AShMs, MALE UAVs, Helis even it will be horror for fighters.
In my opinion naval sungur won't have restrictions on weight and size thus can get larger.
With Mar-d being able to detect even small kamikaze uavs, a ciws to eliminate top-attacking kamikaze and SAL ( detected through laser warning) smart munition, can be stopped by CIWS and sungur-d can target UAVs.
Laser warning systems or IRST systems are rather easy to install on naval platforms (since they can tolerate some additional weight), and since Aselsan is able to produce those it gives an upper hand to equip even patrol vessels to further detect loitering munition at a greater distance.
 

UkroTurk

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In my opinion naval sungur won't have restrictions on weight and size thus can get larger.
With Mar-d being able to detect even small kamikaze uavs, a ciws to eliminate top-attacking kamikaze and SAL ( detected through laser warning) smart munition, can be stopped by CIWS and sungur-d can target UAVs.
Laser warning systems or IRST systems are rather easy to install on naval platforms (since they can tolerate some additional weight), and since Aselsan is able to produce those it gives an upper hand to equip even patrol vessels to further detect loitering munition at a greater distance.
If Turkey developed more capable SAM that C-Dome or RAM equivalent, wouldn't be it great applying it on YTKBs?
Look even old M60 tanks have expensive APS, but we all don't question its necessary so Tuzla-Class which patrol vessels Turkish Navy relies on for secure EEZ and shores need decent real SAM system, don't they?



Engaging cruise missiles with SUNGUR seems unlikely to me.
Nonetheless we all agree that UAVs dominate current battles, in combat scenario Patrol vessels will meet a lot of medium - high altitude long endurance UAVs such as Heron, Bayraktar, Akıncı. Greeks also have those .

I suppose neither 40mm bofors nor SUNGUR could engage an UAV at 7000m altitude.

Long in short if Türkiye developing advanced point defence systems like C-Dome why don't use them?

YTKBs deserve decent SAMs.
 

UkroTurk

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İ was wondering if Turboprop aircraft could use ski-jump and i found the answer.
Because I also tried imagining that Vestel Karayel style UAVs were on TCG ANADOLU.
But still need to be figured out that turboprop UAV could land on LHD.

Look first ski-jump which was made from wood appeared on HMS Furious in order to heavily loaded Fairey Barracuda to take off.
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Design of Vestel Karayel more closer to navalized turboprob aircrafts.
Making several changes such as tail hook, lifted front wheels , they could be operational on LHD?
 

Spook

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Somehow need to add Unmanned submarine or naval vessel with sonar since it doesn't have a helicopter.

Someone had a comment on how a very good fusion can be made on a compact size like this with national systems. This concept does include an sonar along with DSH, Tork. If a platform like this can work well with unmanned systems like Aksungur and Ulaq, UUV it could make up for some of its disadvantages in that area. Platforms have different roles, not all should be armed like an frigate. Aim of a platform like this is cost-effective power projection capabilities. This can take many roles which would be normally done by a corvette or frigate and do it a lot less cost.
 

Spook

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Tolga's concept for cost-effective replacement for older fast attack craft classes. I wonder something like royal wingman can be done with FACs using Ulaq. Basically create confusion with having USVs that look very similar to the manned craft.

Fast attack craft concept needs to evolve to suit current threats. We still haven't seen the final design of FAC-55, I believe air defense capability will be prioritized. We could see something a lot different. 4 panel AESA radar. MDAS along with CIWS. FAC-55 is very expensive fast attack craft. It is wrong to call FAC-55 exactly a fast attack craft as it has very advanced systems/capabilities. FACs in concept supposed to be cheap and in large quantities. First design of FAC-55 we see it inheriting bad air defense capabilities of an FAC, it is not worth the cost if its going to have such disadvantage. If I am not wrong Navy wants something advanced like FAC-55 to make up for the delays in the national ship projects.

Ibrahim Sunnetci's Analysis

"In line with the Term-I Agreement Design Contract in the Turkish Type Fast Attack Craft Project, I expect STM engineers will make a series of modifications in the existing weapons and sensors configuration of the FAC-55 design to meet the TNFC’s changing requirements. In this context at least two alternative designs would be prepared each containing different weapons and sensors (one with some outsourced ITAR-Free equipment and indigenous weapon and sensor systems the other would contain both indigenous and foreign-origin weapon and sensor systems) layout pursuant to the CAATSA sanctions imposed in mid-December 2020 as well as the embargoes placed for several years. The modified FAC-55 design with indigenous weapon and sensor systems shall feature an X-Bant Multifunctional AESA Radar (scaled version of Aselsan ÇAFRAD CFR or HAZARD 3D) with a fixed or rotating antenna, ALPER LPI Navigation Radar, X-Band or Ku-Band SatCom Terminal, PIRI or PIRI-ES Infrared Search and Tracking (IRST) System, ARES-2N Radar ESM and AREAS 2NC Radar Electronic Attack Systems, ATMACA or OMGS Anti-Ship Guided Missiles with KEMENT Data Link System, AKR-D Block I (AKREP) Fire Control Radar, Laser Warning Receiver Systems (LWRS) and ADVENT Combat Management System (CMS). In case the 21-cell Mk49 Mod 3 RAM Launcher and RIM-116 Block IA/HAS or Block II Missiles could not be procured due to the CAATSA sanctions or the ongoing exports license embargo being imposed at least for the last three years, an alteration on the design can be proposed to enable the integration of either the 35mm GÖKDENİZ CIWS or the SUNGUR PMADS or SAPAN/ HİSAR A+ air defense missile systems"
 

UkroTurk

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Someone had a comment on how a very good fusion can be made on a compact size like this with national systems. This concept does include an sonar along with DSH, Tork. If a platform like this can work well with unmanned systems like Aksungur and Ulaq, UUV it could make up for some of its disadvantages in that area. Platforms have different roles, not all should be armed like an frigate. Aim of a platform like this is cost-effective power projection capabilities. This can take many roles which would be normally done by a corvette or frigate and do it a lot less cost.
The Submarines seem biggest threat for warships nonetheless Unfortunately sonars have very limited range. That's why corvettes use helicopters for ASW. Unmanned vessel ULAQ with sonar and ASW rockets would fit with this compact corvette.
 

Spook

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The Submarines seem biggest threat for warships nonetheless Unfortunately sonars have very limited range. That's why corvettes use helicopters for ASW. Unmanned vessel ULAQ with sonar and ASW rockets would fit with this compact corvette.

ASW exceed my knowledge. What I am trying to say is just not every ship needs state of the art capabilities. Cost-effectiveness is key. They have different roles, different needs. Best example is Tuzla-class, it has a sonar that performs better for close shore ASW very cost effectively. It's a very successful ship in its special role. Believe or not, it uses an commercial sonar and it works very well for that role as commercial sonar tech developed a lot faster due to competition. ULAQ's ASW variant would also use commercial sonar.

Not to forget in a war scenario, a ship like in the concept or Tuzla-class wouldn't be used alone.

With new advancements, so many things are changing. Unmanned systems will deeply affect all platforms. Also looking at future submarine capabilities, missile like IDAS, LPI radars, drones can give submarines air defense capabilities. It will change how ASW aircraft operate.
 

UkroTurk

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ASW exceed my knowledge. What I am trying to say is just not every ship needs state of the art capabilities. Cost-effectiveness is key. They have different roles, different needs. Best example is Tuzla-class, it has a sonar that performs better for close shore ASW very cost effectively. It's a very successful ship in its special role. Believe or not, it uses an commercial sonar and it works very well for that role as commercial sonar tech developed a lot faster due to competition. ULAQ's ASW variant would also use commercial sonar.

Not to forget in a war scenario, a ship like in the concept or Tuzla-class wouldn't be used alone.

With new advancements, so many things are changing. Unmanned systems will deeply affect all platforms. Also looking at future submarine capabilities, missile like IDAS, LPI radars, drones can give submarines air defense capabilities. It will change how ASW aircraft operate.
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We were discussing with you above posted compact design ship then you jumped on TUZLA class.
This compact design doesn't make the ship cheaper, given the fact that She has Hisar SAM system,MDAS, Korkut CİWS, MAR-D, AKR radars, 8 ATMACA, ASW torpedoes, rockets.

Those systems cost almost a price of TUZLA class.

You also asked if believed TUZLA Class had commercial radar. My answer suggestively is "yes".
 

UkroTurk

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İ found interesting solutions from PLAN.

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Notice the front HQ-10 how embellished old frigates
don't know if the pictures are Photoshopped either they are just mockups.Screenshot_2021-11-22-02-06-48-664_com.android.chrome.jpg
 
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