TR Politics

[UkroTurk]

And you think that an automatic firing system is the answer? To shoot at kids, women?
Is that an appropriate reaction?

Why do carry soldiers gun? Why do we produce unmanned platforms?For Killing kids and women?

 

[what]

Why do carry soldiers gun? Why do we produce unmanned platforms?For Killing kids and women?

I was responding to a user that suggested automatic firing systems against refugees.
Totally different things.

 

[UkroTurk]

refugees

Again.
Refugees what a lovely word...

I would prefer land mines as in old good days.

 

[YeşilVatan]

And you think that an automatic firing system is the answer? To shoot at kids, women?
Is that an appropriate reaction?

Well, my proposal is more about rapid reaction. Towers spot, then fire warning shots. If tower itself is threatened or the intruders are armed (or too fast) it becomes a military affair. If the group appears determined, a group of soldiers/gendarmerie/police quickly swoop in to process them Greek style. Women and children would naturally be subjected to a more lenient treatment. But ultimately they go back and get the message: you can't border hop. If they come through a legit border crossing, that can be arranged within the law and civil governance.

And if they zerg rush the border fence, why can't we respond with fire? The alternative is letting them in, which would destroy this nation in a few decades. I don't want to fight a gruesome civil war decades later, I'd just deter invaders with lethal force now.

Again.
Refugees what a lovely word...

I would prefer land mines as in old good days.

Land mines harm the environment and locals. A pair of eyes (optics?) are better. It' the 21st century after all...

 

[what]

Again.
Refugees what a lovely word...

I would prefer land mines as in old good days.

You can have all the views in the world that you like, but one day someone is going to walk into that field. Whether its a Turkish child, because children dont read signs or a women that has fled the Mullahs because she didnt want to put on her hijab anymore.

If you can live with that, that says a lot about you and everyone that agrees with it.
We are still humans and so are they.

 

[what]

Well, my proposal is more about rapid reaction. Towers spot, then fire warning shots. If tower itself is threatened or the intruders are armed (or too fast) it becomes a military affair. If the group appears determined, a group of soldiers/gendarmerie/police quickly swoop in to process them Greek style. Women and children would naturally be subjected to a more lenient treatment. But ultimately they go back and get the message: you can't border hop. If they come through a legit border crossing, that can be arranged within the law and civil governance.

And if they zerg rush the border fence, why can't we respond with fire? The alternative is letting them in, which would destroy this nation in a few decades. I don't want to fight a gruesome civil war decades later, I'd just deter invaders with lethal force now.

Land mines harm the environment and locals. A pair of eyes (optics?) are better. It' the 21st century after all...

Regarding the first part: You know who did that? The GDR, they had auto-gun that shot people at sight.

Regarding the latter part: That sounds more reasonable.

 

[Stimpy75]

 

[UkroTurk]

You can have all the views in the world that you like, but one day someone is going to walk into that field. Whether its a Turkish child, because children dont read signs or a women that has fled the Mullahs because she didnt want to put on her hijab anymore.

If you can live with that, that says a lot about you and everyone that agrees with it.
We are still humans and so are they.

You know what:

I was also a refugee, me and my wife and my little son were waiting 24 hours in front of Polish border and the weather was freezing.

We could have infiltrated to Poland illegaly but we didn't.

And 10 millions citizenz of Ukraine haven't passed into Poland illegaly.

Everyone knows that there is a border and you must be checked and registered.

everyone knows that Poland is a different country and The polish have every rights to protect their borders.

if i had been shot while trying to infiltrate, i wouldnt have complained . Because i did know : there were armed soldiers!

why on earth a peaceful person would infiltrate another country if border gates were open?

 

[what]

I was also a refugee, me and my wife and my little son were waiting 24 hours in front of Polish border and the weather was freezing.

We could have infiltrated to Poland illegaly but we didn't.

And 10 millions citizenz of Ukraine haven't passed into Poland illegaly.

Everyone knows that there is a border and you must be checked and registered.

everyone knows that Poland is a different country and The polish have every rights to protect their borders.

if i had been shot while trying to infiltrate, i wouldnt have complained . Because i did know : there were armed soldiers!

why on earth a peaceful person would infiltrate another country if borders were open?

You say you would have not complained if the soldiers had shot at you? I doubt it.
What if the Russians were bombing the border and you and your family walked into a minefield as you suggested?
Would you not have complained? I mean, if you were still alive, of course.

There is a difference between refugees from Afghanistan or elsewhere and Ukraine.
I would very much like to replace every Middle Eastern refugees with refugees from Ukraine.

They are better behaved, better educated - we see that every day. Many of them already have jobs here in Germany and contribute by paying taxes etc. - only 25% of Syrian refugees work in Germany even after 10 years of civil war.

We dont have to discuss the socio-economic backgrounds of the refugees coming to Turkey.
My argument is that shooting people is bad, violence needs to be proportionally.
And yes there are legal border gates, so people that cross illegally should be treated as such.

Even war has its laws, Geneva conventions and such you know.
Peacetimes have even stricter laws. This is still a country of rule and law, at least a bit of it.



Everyone has the right to have their own opinions, but not all opinions kill civilians.
This will be my last comment on this topic.

 

[demir283]

View attachment 56752
Why 25m.? With ATOM unmanned gun pods and compact radars, İn Every 1 Kilometer is enough to stop infiltrations however Turkish soldiers aren't allowed shoot illegal migrants even face to face.

Suriyeliler sınırdaki hendeği istemedi. Sınırda Türk askerine tekbirli saldırı

Türkiye-Suriye sınırındaki kaçak geçişleri önlemek amacıyla sınır duvarının önüne hendek kazma işlemi yapan iş makinelerine ve onları koruyan Türk askerine, Suriyeliler tekbir getirerek saldırmak istedi.

www.yenicaggazetesi.com.tr

- Sir you suggested a cheap method which is why i calculated the cheapest way to show how significant the investments will be that even US would not sponsor. let alone every 1 km such unmanned weapon poses much more treats than securing places. lates information about the security and many issues are findled on internet. they also have smart towers and many other options to find, detect for trespassing etc. those are more sufficiant and effective way to deal with it.
- as for deportees there are lot's of information on Göç İdaresi Başkanlığı website also data's which you can find. People make video doesn't mean a thing. because you don't know aftermat and how the treat dealt with...

 

[YeşilVatan]

You know what:

I was also a refugee, me and my wife and my little son were waiting 24 hours in front of Polish border and the weather was freezing.

We could have infiltrated to Poland illegaly but we didn't.

And 10 millions citizenz of Ukraine haven't passed into Poland illegaly.

Everyone knows that there is a border and you must be checked and registered.

everyone knows that Poland is a different country and The polish have every rights to protect their borders.

if i had been shot while trying to infiltrate, i wouldnt have complained . Because i did know : there were armed soldiers!

why on earth a peaceful person would infiltrate another country if borders were open?

This whole debate is always getting stuck in the same old arguments.

Prof. Jonathan Haidt has a really good book (and a TED Talk if you don't like reading). It's called "The Righteous Mind". In this book he talks about how people care about different things, and how these are mostly inborn traits. These are mostly about triggering the feeling of disgust and discomfort in a person. He gives out five metrics of inborn political disposition/sensibility.

1- Harm/care: people who have a high enough of this sensibility get triggered by people or things getting harmed or neglected. A supermajority (>%80) of any given society have this disposition.
2- Equality: This sensibility makes people really hate undeserved wealth/positions, and a trong sense of discomfort when faced with poverty or things like that. Again, a supermajority have this.

Now here we get to the hairy bits:

3- Authority: People who have this disposition are the guys who say "why would he run from the police in the first place?" They innately venerate and like to obey instruction by authority figures. about %50 have this.
4- Purity/Sanctity: This is more nebulous. This dispoition is all over the place, because things that are considered pure and holy change from person to person. Some believe sexuality is impure and get triggered by pride parades, some get triggered by forests being cut.
5- Tribalism/ingroup preference: Us vs. them. "We are we, they are them, and it should stay that way." These people support their own, whatever "their own" means to them. This sensibility can be expressed as football hooliganism or racism. It's a wide range. about 40 to 50 percent have this disposition.

There are also liberty which basically is the "get off my lawn" people.

Now, the numbers fluctuate, but this is the gist of it. These are inborn stuff. If you are high in equality disposition, more distributionist policies make more sense to you. If you are high in purity/sanctity, you tend to ascribe a spiritual value to things or people that you feel affinity towards.

This is why I don't really try to change minds on the issue of the use of violence. People get triggered by it. I simply value my nation more. It is what it is, what can I say?

 

[demir283]

You know what:

I was also a refugee, me and my wife and my little son were waiting 24 hours in front of Polish border and the weather was freezing.

We could have infiltrated to Poland illegaly but we didn't.

And 10 millions citizenz of Ukraine haven't passed into Poland illegaly.

Everyone knows that there is a border and you must be checked and registered.

everyone knows that Poland is a different country and The polish have every rights to protect their borders.

if i had been shot while trying to infiltrate, i wouldnt have complained . Because i did know : there were armed soldiers!

why on earth a peaceful person would infiltrate another country if border gates were open?

Sir that's totally irrelevant . Because you knew that you get to pass through . if war very close at border, marching army was closer in the borders, those 10 millions would create chaotic events unimaginable way . So it depends on situations. that's why many Ukrainian waited in the borders . Also, there hundreds of thousand illegal Ukrainian pass through Poland after Male population restriction.

you were lucky but not all people have the same issues like you, even not in Ukrainian. That's why they chose too illegally.

 

[Ryder]

Why do so called refugees infiltrate into Türkiye over the walls, instead of passing legally through borders under the control of Turkish police ?

There are checkpoints and border gates which welcome Syrians.

"Refugees" should be checked and registered by border officers. Their behavior is not peaceful and civilized.
An İnnocent ordinary refugee doesn't have to worry about controls.

Turkiye is a bridge they use to cross into Europe.

Refugees are mainly men once they start making money they bring their families over.

Refugees are getting jobs because they are more willing to work for cheap even in awful jobs to make ends meet.

You had users here on this forum mocking Turkish kebab caravans or even toilet cleaners.

I was anti refugee artik I try to take a fair stance by looking at the factors of what is going on what is causing such issues.

Its easy to get caught with the whole racism issue.

In Australia we keep them in awful detention centres in remote islands many have killed themselves alledgedly being used for slave labour.

Pretty awful shit. When refugees and asylum seekers also start committing crimes and pissing off the locals this also gives them a bad image as a result.

No country can actually accomodate millions of mass migrants its impossible especially for developibg countries.

Turkiye no matter how much it done for refugees is a developing country and newly industralised.

 

[Ryder]

I feel like South Park despite being hilarious and controversial seems to nail the issue of immigration and refugees.

 

[I_Love_F16]

At this point they’re not even refugees but economic migrants, which is a complete different thing.

 

[Bozan]

I dont know what to say to people that want to kill refugees at the borders.
The moment you start thinking like that, you have lost your humanity.

So please no more of that, be civilized and yes its totally okay to be against refugees but think before you post.

And anyone approaching our soldiers like that should be arrested on the spot and returned home.

There is a serious problem with dehumanisation in the country.

 

[Bozan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1651710812363411456

Soylu calling the elections a political coup attempt

 

[Tornadoss]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1651710812363411456

Soylu calling the elections a political coup attempt

this is pathetic. Their whole campaign is based on fear.

 

[Lool]

Why would he even do something so stupid
Giving it to US-based cronies just because their owners are turks doesnt mean that this is an improvement for gods sake
So now the CIA has a military airport within the heart of Turkey to conduct all of their undercover operations
Truly, a by the manual implementation of how to give your own balls to your opponent

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1651699975942819850

 

[Ryder]

At this point they’re not even refugees but economic migrants, which is a complete different thing.

You have refugees from asia and africa too.

Lots of conflict there but also lots of economic migrants.

Migration can be triggered by wars, upheavals, economic and persecution.

In my opinion there is also lots of smugglers in Turkiye who get them in.

You alsp have smugglers who ferry them across Europe its a big business.

Guess what most of the children are being kidnapped for slavery, sex slavery and for their organs.

Its pretty tragic.

I believe the refugee crisis is an international issue.

Instead of making countries take millions most countries should work together to take a certain number. Why should Turkiye hold like 3 million or so then you have unofficial figures.

Eu deal screwed Turkiye in the long run. Refugees dont have much opportunity to stay in Turkiye hence why they use it as a bridge to cross into Europe.

Interesting how the Israelis are not condemned for keeping a racist state but even sterlilising Refugees.

If Turks said we want to keep the Turkish character of our country the Europeans and American liberals will cry racism or fascism.

When Jews say we want Israel to stay a Jewish state you will hear "crickets".