Unfortunately a lot of times when you argue with people, esp. on the internet, there's no way to show and prove that you're right and they're wrong and those who are wrong can go on thinking they're right. I argued a lot with this Z Kuşağı over their delusions about Zafer. They not only thought I'm pitifully wrong, now that they've been proven wrong they have no critical faculties to analyze why they were wrong. Because of the lack of those critical faculties, there's also no hope of them ever finding it out.