TR Propulsion Systems

Afif

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Afif

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What we know is that the AL-31 needs maintenance every 100/200 hours,what would this mean for the WS-15?

AL-31 has MTBO of 1000 Hours. And total lifespan of 3000 hours.
Which was increased to 4000 hours in AL-41 for SU-57.
 
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Radonsider

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The service life of a AL-31 is about 2000 hours,the WS-15 3600 hours(so they say).
What we know is that the AL-31 needs maintenance every 100/200 hours,what would this mean for the WS-15?
The F-119(F-22) has a lifespan of 8650 hours,maintenance of hot section every 2000 hours,cold section every 4000 hours.
Our engine when ready has to be on par with the F-119 at least.
So,i dont believe in this WS-15 engine,never seen it fly.
Its all vage.
it is not exactly hours for the US engines, they are cycles. For some cases it will be more than 15 and for some it will be less than 2 (per hour). For ferry flights you won't use much cycles, for airshows and training you will use much more
 

Afif

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it is not exactly hours for the US engines, they are cycles. For some cases it will be more than 15 and for some it will be less than 2 (per hour). For ferry flights you won't use much cycles, for airshows and training you will use much more

F119 has 8650 TAC.
 

Huelague

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He reminds me of “Scotty” from the original Star Trek series. Captain Kirk used to ask, how long before warp power availability. He would say 12 hours. Kirk used to say get it ready in 2 hours. And he used to do it in two.
In one hour! That was the funny point.
 

Hasanrize

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I would rather take Mr Kotil's words as a credible source as he hasn't failed to keep any of his promises so far.
Take the word of Mahmut Akşit instead, as he is the most knowledgeable guy in Türkiye when it comes to aviation engines.
 

Strong AI

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Ibrahim Sünnetci on Twitter:

"The most striking feature of the TF-6000 and its afterburner version TF-10.000, which was initiated with TEI's own resources, is that it is designed to be easily interchangeable with the AI-322 and its afterburner version 322F, which will operate on the KIZILELMA MIUS and ANKA III TISU/MIUS. ..."


"... Good luck to the TS3000 Engine that will power the ATAK II T929 and 10 Ton GM Helicopter. According to what I learned there, the work could not be started because there is still no contract. However, it is rumored that the Ukrainian company has not been able to make any commitments for the next 14 engines ordered, painting a pessimistic picture..."

 

UkroTurk

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Ts1400 is turboshaft engine, you can make it turboprop but not turbofan engine.
İndeed you could but fans would be larger.

On the other hand fans of civil aircrafts are large.

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Baryshx

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Ibrahim Sünnetci on Twitter:

"The most striking feature of the TF-6000 and its afterburner version TF-10.000, which was initiated with TEI's own resources, is that it is designed to be easily interchangeable with the AI-322 and its afterburner version 322F, which will operate on the KIZILELMA MIUS and ANKA III TISU/MIUS. ..."


"... Good luck to the TS3000 Engine that will power the ATAK II T929 and 10 Ton GM Helicopter. According to what I learned there, the work could not be started because there is still no contract. However, it is rumored that the Ukrainian company has not been able to make any commitments for the next 14 engines ordered, painting a pessimistic picture..."

Damn, we made the engine and then we shape it according to the demand and the situation.

That's a bit much for me. Normally we have to do it according to our own wishes and thoughts. This restricts and challenges us.

The same seems to be happening with the TF35000. We'll make it based on the F110 engine.

It is unfortunate for us that such an environment and conditions existed. It is very frustrating to have time and size constraints for our own unique and perfect product.
 

Bürküt

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Ahlatshah

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Dış Mihraklar are so happy right now. Because when we build the engine they will be able to say Turks had the engine built by the Ukrainians 🥴 .
Frankly, I dont care who and what they say. We need engine, we need it fast, we need it to be indigenous and for that reason we should get as many help as we can.
 

Yasar_TR

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Ukraine’s engine technology is so antiquated that I doubt they will be of any use to TEI. They are still using turbine blades cast with directionally solidified blade tech. TEI is however able to produce 3rd generation single crystal blades which are of the same quality as those used in F119 engine when they were building the f22 planes.
Soviet Era engines have shorter combustion chambers that results in smoky engines. TEI uses additive technologies and Blisk Fan in their engines.
In short their systems are not compatible. Yes when TAI needed an APU for the KAAN they may have used Ukrainian MotorSich through TRMotor. But the cooperation probably didn’t go any further.

A more meaningful cooperation would be with GE, when TEI starts building F110 engines for the first couple of squadrons of KAANs. Apart from the 14 prototypes of KAAN, IsmailDemir mentioned (they will need 28 engines - 5 are already delivered ) we will need approximately 90 more engines.
During the manufacturing of these engines if TEI should adopt a policy of indigenising as many parts of the engine as they can, like they have been doing whilst manufacturing T700-TEI-701D engines, this will give them a basis of building an eco system for building a f119 size engine. This would be an invaluable exercise and experience that will help TEI later on when they launch the serial production of TF35000 engine.
 

moz68k

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What's wrong with getting assistance from Ukraine? Manufacturing capability is one thing, what Swiss watchmakers call "Savoir-Faire" (know-how) is another. Know-how is accumulated, sometimes over centuries; capability can be transferred. Ukrainians have a long history of designing and manufacturing aviation engines and they can probably teach us a few things that GE isn't so eager to share. I think it's a good idea.
 

Yasar_TR

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What's wrong with getting assistance from Ukraine? Manufacturing capability is one thing, what Swiss watchmakers call "Savoir-Faire" (know-how) is another. Know-how is accumulated, sometimes over centuries; capability can be transferred. Ukrainians have a long history of designing and manufacturing aviation engines and they can probably teach us a few things that GE isn't so eager to share. I think it's a good idea.
Do you want to learn how to produce a Lada when you are geared up to produce and being taught how to produce a Mercedes S class ?

Our only deficiency is the lack of an eco system to produce a complete jet engine. You need a long line of manufacturers/subcontractors that can produce every bit of small accessories and parts that are too costly for TEI to produce in house.
Unfortunately we don’t have it. But the Ukrainians do.
Manufacturing of Ukranian engines will not teach us anything. It will not teach TEI how to produce a Blisk Fan or a combustion chamber that can be produced by additive technologies. Soviet era technology is few decades behind the tech TEI is using. TEI will never get their hands on technology on how to integrate CMC parts in to an engine by producing Ukrainian engines.
Since the collapse of Soviets, Ukrainian Motor Sich or Ivchenko Progress have not successfully produced/developed a new engine. They still produce what they were producing in Soviet Era.
 

what

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Not an expert, more from a business point of view. Even if they have not developed something high-tech in a while, I'm sure they have engineers and manpower that could be used and that could share valuable input on our own engine. Similar to how Brazils Akaer contributed to KAAN. Anything, really, if we want to keep the tight schedule.

Ukrainians engineers might not cost thousands of Euros per hour as the BAE engineers probably did.
 
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