TR Propulsion Systems

[TheInsider]

I am not saying this is a classified information.

"outline the picture, and fill in the gaps with some basic statistical calculations"

Kale is the only cruise missile engine supplier to Turkey. Take the production values declared and distribute it based on your other assumptions for engine models would be ordered, you can get a rough estimate of Turkey's cruise missile inventories by types and I think that has to be classified information. It won't be 100% accurate, but it will be more accurate than if that production numbers wouldn't announced openly.

You can narrow the gaps between the higher and lower ends of your future forecasts about Turkish defense statistics with this much declared information. Get an more accurate picture.

View attachment 70372

Turkish cruise missile inventory is not classified information. It can be deducted without Kale's production rate data.

 

[somegoodusername]

Turkish cruise missile inventory is not classified information. It can be deducted without Kale's production rate data.

Yes, that is the problem, it should be. Kale was just one example.

 

[Huelague]

Turkish firms overcome challenges in engine manufacturing with rapid technological advancements

The most difficult product to produce in the world is high-power engines. By high-power engines, we mean jet and passenger plane engines and those that power land, sea and air vehicles with a minimum of 1,000 horsepower. To be more specific, an F-16 engine, a Boeing 737 engine or a Howitzer engine all use 1,000 horsepower.

It is said that producing an aircraft engine is more complex than an atomic bomb. So much so that when the U.K., Germany, France and Spain came together to make the engine for the Tornado jet, they probably did not expect it to take 17 years.


Today, the U.S., the U.K., Russia and France alone can produce a jet engine. Let us remember that France produced one in cooperation with other European countries at the beginning of the process. On the other hand, Germany and Japan have the production capacity and potential. However, China and India, both mentioned as superpower candidates, have not yet been able to produce jet engines. China tried to do so with the support of Russia and Ukraine, while India failed and gave up.

Türkiye is working relentlessly to produce such difficult-to-produce and state-of-the-art engines. So, what has the Turkish defense industry done so far in engine production?


Currently, the Turkish defense industry has produced some engines, while others are being tested or under development. Let us look at them one by one.

Engines already in the inventory;

TUNA (400 HP): Produced by BMC Power, this engine is used in the same company's armored vehicles, such as Vuran and Kirpi.

PD170: Produced by TEI, a subsidiary of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), this engine, which powers Anka, Aksungur and Bayraktar TB3 drones, has wholly ended the foreign dependence on these UCAVs in terms of engines.
PG50: Produced by TEI, it is used in Kargı UCAVs.

KTJ3200: Produced by KALE ARGE, a private company, it has started to be used in Atmaca and SOM missiles with a range of 280 kilometers (170 miles).
KTJ1750: This engine is also produced by KALE ARGE and is powering a guided Çakır missile with a 150-kilometer range.

KTJ3700: The first test firing of the KARA ATMACA missile was recently conducted with this engine, again produced by KALE ARGE. Pakistan is said to be interested in the engine.
TS1400: Produced by TEI, it is being tested in the Gökbey helicopter nowadays. It is expected to receive the necessary certificates and enter the inventory within a few years. Moreover, since the same engine will be installed in the Atak helicopter, more Ataks are expected to be sold abroad.
Engines under development or testing;

UTKU (1,000 HP): The engine developed by BMC Power will be used in new generation light armored vehicles and the Fırtına howitzer.

BATU (1,500 HP): It is being developed by BMC Power and its transmission. Altay, the first Turkish national tank, will use it. Tests of the engine are ongoing. Türkiye was planning to power the indigenous tank with the engine and transmission produced by the German company MTU. However, production was delayed due to the German embargo on engine sales. As an interim solution, the manufacturer BMC purchased the engine and transmission from South Korea. After 250 tanks are produced with the aforementioned engine, the 1,500-horsepower BATU engine and transmission will be installed in Altay tanks from 2026 onward.

PD222: Being developed by TEI, it will be used in Anka, Aksungur and Bayraktar TB3 UCAVs.
AZRA (600 HP): Being developed by BMC Power, it is planned to be used in tank carrier vehicles, cargo and personnel vehicles.

LEVEND (600 HP): The engine developed by BMC Power will be used in the unmanned naval vehicle Marlın.
BLUE BATU (1400 HP): The engine developed by BMC Power will be used in Milgem and SG600-type warships.
X7 SERIES (460-530 HP): The engine developed by Tümosan will be used in wheeled armored vehicles.

MARIN X7 (95-105 HP): The engine developed by Tümosan will be used in the unmanned naval vehicle ULAQ.
TF6000: TEI has produced the prototype of the turbo-prop engine, which will be used in the Anka-3 UCAV.
TF10000: The engine, which is the afterburner version of the TF6000, will be used in the Kızılelma UCAV.
KAAN Engine: The engine, whose design is currently being finalized by TEI and TR MOTOR, will be used in Kaan, the first Turkish indigenous fighter jet.
BM100: The engine developed by Baykar Tech will be used in the Bayraktar TB2 UCAV.

ARAT: The engine developed by KALE ARGE will be used in the 1,000-kilometer-range Gezgin guided missiles. KALE ARGE also reported that it is working on Turbofan engines that are planned to be used in business jets.
All the above engines are expected to be produced within 10 years, ending Türkiye’s dependence on foreign suppliers and generating lucrative revenue. However, the future is full of surprises that may hinder production. Türkiye needs more time to learn whether its stubbornness or obstacles will prevail in the engine production process.

Türkiye's engine manufacturing success | Opinion

Turkish firms overcome challenges in engine manufacturing with rapid technological advancements

www.dailysabah.com

 

[zio]

One more 1200-2400 BG engine tubitak rute,will be used hisar class OPV

 

[Saithan]

You know we're used to "future" potential. It's not as good as "we're using it now" in 1000 Firtina 2 and 1000 Altay MBT.

 

[2033]

Turkish firms overcome challenges in engine manufacturing with rapid technological advancements

The most difficult product to produce in the world is high-power engines. By high-power engines, we mean jet and passenger plane engines and those that power land, sea and air vehicles with a minimum of 1,000 horsepower. To be more specific, an F-16 engine, a Boeing 737 engine or a Howitzer engine all use 1,000 horsepower.

It is said that producing an aircraft engine is more complex than an atomic bomb. So much so that when the U.K., Germany, France and Spain came together to make the engine for the Tornado jet, they probably did not expect it to take 17 years.


Today, the U.S., the U.K., Russia and France alone can produce a jet engine. Let us remember that France produced one in cooperation with other European countries at the beginning of the process. On the other hand, Germany and Japan have the production capacity and potential. However, China and India, both mentioned as superpower candidates, have not yet been able to produce jet engines. China tried to do so with the support of Russia and Ukraine, while India failed and gave up.

Türkiye is working relentlessly to produce such difficult-to-produce and state-of-the-art engines. So, what has the Turkish defense industry done so far in engine production?


Currently, the Turkish defense industry has produced some engines, while others are being tested or under development. Let us look at them one by one.

Engines already in the inventory;

TUNA (400 HP): Produced by BMC Power, this engine is used in the same company's armored vehicles, such as Vuran and Kirpi.

PD170: Produced by TEI, a subsidiary of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), this engine, which powers Anka, Aksungur and Bayraktar TB3 drones, has wholly ended the foreign dependence on these UCAVs in terms of engines.
PG50: Produced by TEI, it is used in Kargı UCAVs.

KTJ3200: Produced by KALE ARGE, a private company, it has started to be used in Atmaca and SOM missiles with a range of 280 kilometers (170 miles).
KTJ1750: This engine is also produced by KALE ARGE and is powering a guided Çakır missile with a 150-kilometer range.

KTJ3700: The first test firing of the KARA ATMACA missile was recently conducted with this engine, again produced by KALE ARGE. Pakistan is said to be interested in the engine.
TS1400: Produced by TEI, it is being tested in the Gökbey helicopter nowadays. It is expected to receive the necessary certificates and enter the inventory within a few years. Moreover, since the same engine will be installed in the Atak helicopter, more Ataks are expected to be sold abroad.
Engines under development or testing;

UTKU (1,000 HP): The engine developed by BMC Power will be used in new generation light armored vehicles and the Fırtına howitzer.

BATU (1,500 HP): It is being developed by BMC Power and its transmission. Altay, the first Turkish national tank, will use it. Tests of the engine are ongoing. Türkiye was planning to power the indigenous tank with the engine and transmission produced by the German company MTU. However, production was delayed due to the German embargo on engine sales. As an interim solution, the manufacturer BMC purchased the engine and transmission from South Korea. After 250 tanks are produced with the aforementioned engine, the 1,500-horsepower BATU engine and transmission will be installed in Altay tanks from 2026 onward.

PD222: Being developed by TEI, it will be used in Anka, Aksungur and Bayraktar TB3 UCAVs.
AZRA (600 HP): Being developed by BMC Power, it is planned to be used in tank carrier vehicles, cargo and personnel vehicles.

LEVEND (600 HP): The engine developed by BMC Power will be used in the unmanned naval vehicle Marlın.
BLUE BATU (1400 HP): The engine developed by BMC Power will be used in Milgem and SG600-type warships.
X7 SERIES (460-530 HP): The engine developed by Tümosan will be used in wheeled armored vehicles.

MARIN X7 (95-105 HP): The engine developed by Tümosan will be used in the unmanned naval vehicle ULAQ.
TF6000: TEI has produced the prototype of the turbo-prop engine, which will be used in the Anka-3 UCAV.
TF10000: The engine, which is the afterburner version of the TF6000, will be used in the Kızılelma UCAV.
KAAN Engine: The engine, whose design is currently being finalized by TEI and TR MOTOR, will be used in Kaan, the first Turkish indigenous fighter jet.
BM100: The engine developed by Baykar Tech will be used in the Bayraktar TB2 UCAV.

ARAT: The engine developed by KALE ARGE will be used in the 1,000-kilometer-range Gezgin guided missiles. KALE ARGE also reported that it is working on Turbofan engines that are planned to be used in business jets.
All the above engines are expected to be produced within 10 years, ending Türkiye’s dependence on foreign suppliers and generating lucrative revenue. However, the future is full of surprises that may hinder production. Türkiye needs more time to learn whether its stubbornness or obstacles will prevail in the engine production process.

Türkiye's engine manufacturing success | Opinion

Turkish firms overcome challenges in engine manufacturing with rapid technological advancements

www.dailysabah.com

I guess there is no specific name for the ballistic missile engines produced by Roketsan.

 

[Huelague]

I guess there is no specific name for the ballistic missile engines produced by Roketsan.

Interestingly, the author is unnamed.

 

[Anmdt]

One more 1200-2400 BG engine tubitak rute,will be used hisar class OPV

I can't get any -legit- source for this. Evidently this is the only engine that has a promise for generator / marine / submarine applications but it is yet to complete marine certification.

 

[zio]

I can't get any -legit- source for this. Evidently this is the only engine that has a promise for generator / marine / submarine applications but it is yet to complete marine certification.

Naval insider web page

 

[Boykaz]

Could the 9th batch be the 26th product?

 

[Strong AI]

Could the 9th batch be the 26th product?
View attachment 70532 View attachment 70533

Our defense industry is so transparent that our adversaries don’t need to run intelligence-gathering operations, buy information from Turkish sources, or infiltrate facilities with agents to obtain critical or strategic production numbers and other sensitive data.

And every bit of that new information is posted in this forum on the same day in clear English. All they have to do is read this forum, outline the picture, and fill in the gaps with some basic statistical calculations.

@somegoodusername they want you to get a heart attack.

 

[TheInsider]

P means parti (batch) 3P should be the third batch 59 is probably the 59th engine of the third batch. We don't know how many engines there are per batch but it feels like there are 100 engines per batch so there should be more than 900 engines and increasing.

Unlike other companies, KALE is a production company so once their product is qualified KALE will have no problem producing big numbers.

 

[Anmdt]

Naval insider web page

As far as i know MAN has provided complete MPS solution and i haven't heard indigeneous components neither for electric motors nor the generators. And typically, Isbir elektrik was the contractor for gen-sets and this could be misunderstood as 'local gensets'.

There is only one mention of indigeneous electric motors on AKDG through official sources but also following that i have heard none.

The same source also refers to TCG Ufuk as Diesel-Electric while there are official sources indicating a direct diesel engine + reductor drive. There should be slight confusion with the 'auxillary engine' - yardımcı makina there, as in counting it for the 'auxillary' propulsion.

Gensets are auxillary engines meant for electrical power supply onboard.

 

[Saithan]

As far as i know MAN has provided complete MPS solution and i haven't heard indigeneous components neither for electric motors nor the generators. And typically, Isbir elektrik was the contractor for gen-sets and this could be misunderstood as 'local gensets'.

There is only one mention of indigeneous electric motors on AKDG through official sources but also following that i have heard none.

The same source also refers to TCG Ufuk as Diesel-Electric while there are official sources indicating a direct diesel engine + reductor drive. There should be slight confusion with the 'auxillary engine' - yardımcı makina there, as in counting it for the 'auxillary' propulsion.

Gensets are auxillary engines meant for electrical power supply onboard.

From what you've written, I get the impression that a local company is going to be a "front" company for "german"/"foreign" engine components and someone is going to be claiming that it's their/turkish own product.

As I see it our problem is that even if a privat company in Türkiye spend resources and money on R&D of their own engine from scratch that delivers useful amount of Horsepower, TAF won't buy the product even if it's to support the company and motivate them to more R&D and improvement.

Now that mentality has been pretty prevelant in Türkiye, like forever, and that is also why Turks tend to make do with just being a supplier and not creator. Taking riscs are not rewarded. Bayraktar is an exception, but even for them, they had to marry RTE daughter to even get a chance to show what they could do. (Yes I am being rude to make a point).

If Tümosan made an engine for 400HP for some vehicle they should have acquired 100 of those vehicles to motivate further R&D and improvements. If we have created a marine engine that can power less than 1000 ton naval vessel, then TN or TCG should acquire those vessels for whatever purpose.

Marine biological research, patrol boat, even if you gift those patrol boats to someone then it's useful. Libya, Tunesia, Somalia etc. just make them and gift them.

 

[Anmdt]

As far as i know MAN has provided complete MPS solution and i haven't heard indigeneous components neither for electric motors nor the generators. And typically, Isbir elektrik was the contractor for gen-sets and this could be misunderstood as 'local gensets'.

There is only one mention of indigeneous electric motors on AKDG through official sources but also following that i have heard none.

The same source also refers to TCG Ufuk as Diesel-Electric while there are official sources indicating a direct diesel engine + reductor drive. There should be slight confusion with the 'auxillary engine' - yardımcı makina there, as in counting it for the 'auxillary' propulsion.

Gensets are auxillary engines meant for electrical power supply onboard.

I won't do the work for osint guys, care to zoom in to see the brands.

If someone attempts to counter me on this; electric motor is present in the pictures, the brand is slightly visible on the control panel lid. Let's save our time .

TCG AKHİSAR makinelerine kavuştu

Açık Deniz Karakol Gemisi (ADKG) serisinin 2. gemisi TCG KOÇHİSAR'da üretim ve donatım aralıksız devam ediyor.

www.haberdenizde.com

 

[Saithan]

Man I'm using Paint to try to zoom in on the image, but I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right spot or not.

 

[Anmdt]

Man I'm using Paint to try to zoom in on the image, but I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right spot or not.

 

[Saithan]

Kardesim ormani agac yüzünden göremiyom

I see letters resembling ABB, or am I wrong

EDIT: I just noticed the black arrows too

 

[Anmdt]

Kardesim ormani agac yüzünden göremiyom

I see letters resembling ABB, or am I wrong

EDIT: I just noticed the black arrows too

There are several other sources for this, but as far as i could see it was all ABB or MAN. But few turkish companies have provided equipments related to electric motor and couplings.

 

[2033]

"Preliminary design of Kaan's engine completed"