TR Propulsion Systems

[Yasar_TR]

You forget one thing, Kale didn't have the machine like TEI. TEI did have a lot of equipments from partners(you name it) and Kale do not have. Thats why it take them so long not because they couldn't. If you compare it like that Kale is more capable then TEI.

If you check, you will find that Kale has been forming partnerships like TEI. First with P&W in Izmir to produce engine components of F35 in 2010.

Kale Pratt & Whitney Aircraft Engine Facility Opened in Izmir

Considered as a significant development in the Turkish aerospace

www.defenceturkey.com

Then TAEC with Rolls Royce in 2017 to produce engines for TFX.

Kale Group and Rolls-Royce to Develop Unique Engine for Turkish Fighter

Kale Group and Rolls-Royce which is one of the world’s greatest engine manufacturers shook hands to develop aircraft engines for Turkey. Turkish Air Engine Company (TAEC) to be established with the partnership between Kale Group with 51% of the shares and Rolls-Royce with 49% aims to develop the...

www.defenceturkey.com

You are correct, on the machine-park side TEI has had a lot more help from GE.
So Kale was following in the footsteps of TEI. But was not quite at the same level.
We all know that!
The point is that, due to their lack of innovative knowledge it took them a long time (2012 was when they were first commissioned to produce KTJ-3200. It is only now that it is in serial production )
What I was asking was ; Of the two which is more capable of producing the turbofan version of an axial flow engine like ktj-3200?
@Combat-Master gave the answer. I respect his answer, even though I have reservations on the capability of Kale. But the best way to learn is to make mistakes. They took a long time producing the ktj-3200 and learned a lot in the process. Also as we are in this altogether, I am sure there will be a certain amount of cross fertilisation of information between the two factories.

 

[Combat-Master]

Parts of TEI-TJ300 jet engine, notice ceramic coating on the turbine blade left side of the image

 

[Merzifonlu]

I had a friend who is an chef R&D engineer of Arçelik company in charge of household appliances. The Kale Group had made an offer to develop KTJ-3200 jet engine. My friend refused the offer because the internal organization of the company did not like it.

Therefore, I was not surprised to learn that the development of the KTJ-3200 jet engine was delayed.

 

[neosinan]

I had a friend who is an chef R&D engineer of Arçelik company in charge of household appliances. The Kale Group had made an offer to develop KTJ-3200 jet engine. My friend refused the offer because the internal organization of the company did not like it.

Therefore, I was not surprised to learn that the development of the KTJ-3200 jet engine was delayed.

I second his opinion. I have heard it many times from my friends that Kale group is not a place you wanna work in the long term. Many engineers leverage them to get job offers in firms like Arçelik and Bosch. With Such reputation They won't be power house for R&D. On the other Hand, TEI is doing everything to keep its engineer happy and They are doing great job at that. TEI might be best place to work as an engineer in Turkey, even ahead of Any IT company in Turkey inc likes of foreign IT companies like Google.

 

[Combat-Master]

IDEA LAB - Turbojet Engines

IL-17-EG2 (Student Engine for Learning)
Thrust - 170N
Diameter- 112mm
Length - 282mm
Weight - 1800grm

IL-600-EG2 (Student Engine for Learning)
Thrust - 620N
Diameter- 176mm
Length - 390mm
Weight - 6500grm

IL-1600 Turbjet Engine
Thrust - 1600N
Diameter - 195mm
Length - 660mm
Weight - 18kg

 

[Combat-Master]

IdeaLab - sCO2 Brayton Power Cycle for AIP Submarines

 

[Yasar_TR]

IDEA LAB - Turbojet Engines

IL-17-EG2 (Student Engine for Learning)
Thrust - 170N
Diameter- 112mm
Length - 282mm
Weight - 1800grm
View attachment 18635

IL-600-EG2 (Student Engine for Learning)
Thrust - 620N
Diameter- 176mm
Length - 390mm
Weight - 6500grm
View attachment 18637

IL-1600 Turbjet Engine
Thrust - 1600N
Diameter - 195mm
Length - 660mm
Weight - 18kg
View attachment 18638

Do these engines actually exist in real life or are they just projects in design format?

 

[Yasar_TR]

IdeaLab - sCO2 Brayton Power Cycle for AIP Submarines
View attachment 18643

Having read and heard so much about this I have to say it is too good to be true. The Navy was interested as well. But after a first trial roll out I read that the project was put on a back burner by Navy. Is it still alive?

 

[Bogeyman]

TEI's paper entitled" A mathematical Model for the Windmill of the Turbojet engine " was accepted for the ASME International Gas Turbine Institute Turbo Expo 2021 conference.

At the next ASME Turbo Expo 2021, they will present the paper dedicated to obtain transient windmilling characteristic of a modern turbojet engine under different flight conditions and altitudes with numerous tests conducted at an Altitude Test Facility.

It is a very simple and practical model derived from Froude’s momentum theory. The model is validated with test data. It also matches perfectly (less than 1% difference) with test data of other engines available in the literature and predicts transient windmilling speed much more accurate than available complex model in the literature.

Sign Up | LinkedIn

500 million+ members | Manage your professional identity. Build and engage with your professional network. Access knowledge, insights and opportunities.

www.linkedin.com

 

[Combat-Master]

TEI-PG115 Engine that we are being kept in the dark about what it propels.

 

[Bogeyman]

TEI's paper entitled" A mathematical Model for the Windmill of the Turbojet engine " was accepted for the ASME International Gas Turbine Institute Turbo Expo 2021 conference.

At the next ASME Turbo Expo 2021, they will present the paper dedicated to obtain transient windmilling characteristic of a modern turbojet engine under different flight conditions and altitudes with numerous tests conducted at an Altitude Test Facility.

It is a very simple and practical model derived from Froude’s momentum theory. The model is validated with test data. It also matches perfectly (less than 1% difference) with test data of other engines available in the literature and predicts transient windmilling speed much more accurate than available complex model in the literature.

Sign Up | LinkedIn

500 million+ members | Manage your professional identity. Build and engage with your professional network. Access knowledge, insights and opportunities.

www.linkedin.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1384902862019469319

The article describes how they developed a model for turbojet engines with Froude Momentum Theory using the KTJ-3200 engine architecture and test data. For the TR-60 engine with the same model, they pinned the test results with ~2% margin of error with the test data found in the literature.

 

[Nutuk]

TEI-PG115 Engine that we are being kept in the dark about what it propels.
View attachment 18774

The build of it is exactly like the Rotax 912, it is likely to be used on TB2. What is the weight?

(Mimarisi Rotax 912'ye tipatip benziyor, sanirim TB2'lere bire bir degisim mumkun. Agirligi ne kadar acaba?)

 

[Zafer]

If TB2 is not using a Rotax and PD180 is too big for it then PG115 should make an appearance on the TB2.
The picture only shows that it is a horizontally opposed most likely four cylinder engine. Considering the power class it is a Rotax equivalent configuration, a perfect match to accommodate the satcom and Aselsan CATS added weight on the TB2. Lets hope it works well and is highly domestic.

 

[Combat-Master]

The build of it is exactly like the Rotax 912, it is likely to be used on TB2. What is the weight?

(Mimarisi Rotax 912'ye tipatip benziyor, sanirim TB2'lere bire bir degisim mumkun. Agirligi ne kadar acaba?)

One thing that TEI doesn't mention is whether it could be a modified ROTAX 912 engine, they do the same with the Thielert 2.0 engine "TEI PD-155"

Even the sticker on the output casing is in the same placement.

Modified ROTAX 914 UL is my suspicion with the red cylinder casings

 

[Combat-Master]

KALE ARGE KTJ3200 Turbo Jet Engine Development Video

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Mr Kotil: Tf-X turbofan engines (30000lb) will certainly be indigenous. No other alternative. It will take 10 years.

 

[Stuka]

TEI Updated their website...

Current Engine for Kamikaze Drone (VESTEL KARGI)

> TEI PG50

> TEI PG50S

Service Ceiling

30,000 ft.

 

[Yasar_TR]

BATU Projesi​

BATU Güç Grubu Projesii yerli ve milli tankımız ALTAY tankına güç vermesi için SSB tarafından BMC POWER’a verilmiş motor, transmisyon ve soğutma paketinden oluşan güç grubu geliştirme projesidir. Proje kapsamında geliştirilen motorun 1500 HP güç sağlaması, çapraz tahrikli transmisyonun yüksek tork aktarım kabiliyetine sahip olması, soğutma grubunun düşük silüetli araç yapısında yüksek verimle çalışması, kontrol ünitesinin fonksiyon çeşitliğinin fazla olması ve topyekün güç grubumuzun ALTAY tankının bütün çalışma koşullarında tankımıza kesintisiz güç sağlayacak şekilde geliştirilmesi hedeflenmektedir. Bu kapsamda motor ilk çalıştırması Nisan 2021 tarihinde başarıyla gerçekleştirilen BATU projesi BMC Power Test Merkezi’ndeki test ve kalifkasyon çalışmaları ile devam etmektedir. Ticarileşme takvimi 2024 yılı olarak hedeflenmiştir.
Özellik tablosu:

• 1500 HP Güç Grubu
• 12 Silindir - V Tip Motor
• 6+2 Çapraz Tahrikli Transmisyo

According to BMC Power site, Batu engine has ben fired up. So other tests are being carried on. It does not give an exact date but it says it’s initial start up has been done.
The engine and it’s transmission seems to have worked at the first test.
(There is a YouTube video of Osman Dur of TR Motor where he mentions of this first start up test too)

 

[Zafer]

BATU Projesi​

BATU Güç Grubu Projesii yerli ve milli tankımız ALTAY tankına güç vermesi için SSB tarafından BMC POWER’a verilmiş motor, transmisyon ve soğutma paketinden oluşan güç grubu geliştirme projesidir. Proje kapsamında geliştirilen motorun 1500 HP güç sağlaması, çapraz tahrikli transmisyonun yüksek tork aktarım kabiliyetine sahip olması, soğutma grubunun düşük silüetli araç yapısında yüksek verimle çalışması, kontrol ünitesinin fonksiyon çeşitliğinin fazla olması ve topyekün güç grubumuzun ALTAY tankının bütün çalışma koşullarında tankımıza kesintisiz güç sağlayacak şekilde geliştirilmesi hedeflenmektedir. Bu kapsamda motor ilk çalıştırması Nisan 2021 tarihinde başarıyla gerçekleştirilen BATU projesi BMC Power Test Merkezi’ndeki test ve kalifkasyon çalışmaları ile devam etmektedir. Ticarileşme takvimi 2024 yılı olarak hedeflenmiştir.
Özellik tablosu:

• 1500 HP Güç Grubu
• 12 Silindir - V Tip Motor
• 6+2 Çapraz Tahrikli Transmisyo

View attachment 19274
According to BMC Power site, Batu engine has ben fired up. So other tests are being carried on. It does not give an exact date but it says it’s initial start up has been done.
The engine and it’s transmission seems to have worked at the first test.
(There is a YouTube video of Osman Dur of TR Motor where he mentions of this first start up test too)

A major milestone has been passed with the successful first running of the engine.
We weren't even sure if we could get this far.
I hope the rest of the process goes as a smooth ride.
Thank you BMC for giving us hope.
I wish you a full success in your efforts.

 

[Stuka]

BMC POWER

Website Update...

> BMC POWER VURAN 400HP Engine

> BMC POWER AZRA 600HP Engine

> BMC POWER UTKU 1000HP Engine + Transmission

> BMC POWER BATU 1500HP Engine + Transmission

Additionally...