TR Propulsion Systems

[Zafer]

For the TS1400 core there was the TJ1600 turbojet engine which appeared in many trade shows but was not officially announced as it is not ideal for any practical purpose. Seems like a turbofan version of it is finally concocted as a first turbofan for TEI. It is 6000lbf class meaning it can be between 6000 and 7000 lbf power. More likely closer to 6000. This is nowhere close to a TFX engine. But a twin engine jet trainer and a single or a twin engine UCAV or a MALE UAV are possible. Depending on whether it is a high bypass or a lower bypass it can also be used on business jets. Even a 3 engine powered small passenger plane is possible. And honestly if they go for something like that the coming TS3000 and TS6000 have a lot to say about future possibilities. Especially considering possibility of cooperation with the Ukraine or otherwise.

 

[Era_shield]

There's no publically known project such an engine would be suitable for. It could be for a dual engine navalised Hurjet, but they only decided to do that in recent weeks - there's no way an engine for that is ready so fast. Could be MIUS but it would mean the project is being developed in secret. IMO Hexciter is right, it's most likely a commercial engine for use in regional jets like the G200. In the future it may be militarised for use in a MIUS or some other project.

 

[Anmdt]

There's no publically known project such an engine would be suitable for. It could be for a dual engine navalised Hurjet, but they only decided to do that in recent weeks - there's no way an engine for that is ready so fast. Could be MIUS but it would mean the project is being developed in secret. IMO Hexciter is right, it's most likely a commercial engine for use in regional jets like the G200. In the future it may be militarised for use in a MIUS or some other project.

Which is harder to get from abroad?
-An engine for a commercial liner
-An engine for Jet powered UCAV

While the first one makes the most sense to be purchased from abroad, the price would be low, reliability and maintenance would be decent;
The second one is nearly impossible to happen, nobody except Ukraine/China (China for sake of making sales, Ukraine for sake of the current climate) would sell an engine for UCAV and TEI has taken initiative and moved on for the good.

 

[Era_shield]

Which is harder to get from abroad?
-An engine for a commercial liner
-An engine for Jet powered UCAV

While the first one makes the most sense to be purchased from abroad, the price would be low, reliability and maintenance would be decent;
The second one is nearly impossible to happen, nobody except Ukraine/China (China for sake of making sales, Ukraine for sake of the current climate) would sell an engine for UCAV and TEI has taken initiative and moved on for the good.

TEI makes and sells a lot of parts too. This engine could be a smart way to make money selling a commercial engine while also having something ready to be militarised for use in jet powered UAVs when those are developed. The engine would not need to be changed much. The engine used in the Global Hawk was also originally designed for use in a commercial regional jet engine. This way, when the MIUS is ready we're not doing the usual thing where we stand around going "what about the engine?" - the engine will not only be ready but we will have made some money from it too.

On the other hand, you may be right, but if you are, it means MIUS has been developed in secret and is close to completion. No matter who's right, it's a win

 

[Zafer]

In a recent video TEI announced that the TJ300 and PG50 engines are being upgraded to longer maintenance interval specs opening the doors to them being used on reusable drones. Very good news if you are planning on making such drones or want to partner with or invest in a startup doing just that.

Specifically PG50 will be entering serial production with the upgraded longer maintenance life specs by the end of 2021. Cheers.

 

[Cypro]

One thing not to forget, this TF6000 could be just for development and research purposes for future larger engines. They take TS1400, covert it directly to a turbofan (which is easier than building a new engine) test it, and learn about scaled down engine. If it is not for MIUS and definitely not for Goksungur, it might be just for developing first turbofan.. Then at the end, they will use it as basis and scale up for TFX engine. Prof. Dr. Mahmut Akşit said that they can scale up or down as long as they have developed the core engine, hardest part is already completed. But again this type of engines are used civilian business jets, double engine jet trainers and jet engined UAVs

 

[Zafer]

One thing not to forget, this TF6000 could be just for development and research purposes for future larger engines. They take TS1400, covert it directly to a turbofan (which is easier than building a new engine) test it, and learn about scaled down engine. If it is not for MIUS and definitely not for Goksungur, it might be just for developing first turbofan.. Then at the end, they will use it as basis and scale up for TFX engine. Prof. Dr. Mahmut Akşit said that they can scale up or down as long as they have developed the core engine, hardest part is already completed. But again this type of engines are used civilian business jets, double engine jet trainers and jet engined UAVs

TS1400 has radial compressors which are not suitable for thrust generating engines. However different configurations were to be studied in the development process one of which may be suitable for turbofan development. The next time industry officials talk then we ask.

 

[TheInsider]

TF-6000 will power a supersonic fighter UAV of TUSAS. This info is solid. I'm %95 confident about the source.
Baykar is developing a subsonic attack UAV(MIUS). The maiden flight to be done in 2023. It will use Ukrainian Al-25 engines.
TUSAS is developing a supersonic UAV that will use a TF-6000 engine. The first flight is planned to be done in 2026.

TEI is also working with TRMotor on the design of TF-X engine. TRMotor will act as a design bureau and will hold the patents and IP rights, the production will be divided between local firms(Kale, TEI, Tubitak, ALP Havacılık, Gür Metal etc). I expect TEI to get the lion's share. TRMotor's design team is working with the engineers of TEI. The relationship is kinda similar to the BAE system with TUSAS. TEI offers engineering aid to the TRMotor design team.

 

[Cypro]

TF-6000 will power a supersonic fighter UAV of TUSAS. This info is solid. I'm %95 confident about the source.
Baykar is developing a subsonic attack UAV(MIUS). The maiden flight to be done in 2023. It will use Ukrainian Al-25 engines.
TUSAS is developing a supersonic UAV that will use a TF-6000 engine. The first flight is planned to be done in 2026.

TEI is also working with TRMotor on the design of TF-X engine. TRMotor will act as a design bureau and will hold the patents and IP rights, the production will be divided between local firms(Kale, TEI, Tubitak, ALP Havacılık, Gür Metal etc). I expect TEI to get the lion's share. TRMotor's design team is working with the engineers of TEI. The relationship is kinda similar to the BAE system with TUSAS. TEI offers engineering aid to the TRMotor design team.

That makes sense.. And of course TRMotor is Ivchenko-Progress and TEI is Motor Sich. GE has no ownership on TS1400 or else

 

[Stimpy75]

i know we are still far away from such capabilities, but inşallah one day we will be able.....

Testing on GE’s First XA100 Adaptive Cycle Engine Concludes, Proves Out Transformational Capabilities | GE Aerospace News

EVENDALE, Ohio – GE has completed testing of its first XA100 adaptive cycle engine, ushering in a new era of combat propulsion. GE initiated testing at its Evendale, Ohio, altitude test facility on December 22, 2020. The engine’s performance and mechanical behavior were consistent with pre-test...

www.geaviation.com

 

[Bogeyman]

 

[Cabatli_TR]

 

[Bogeyman]

Comprehensive assessment of battery technologies on warships and submarines worldwide

https://pureadmin.qub.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/228947481/fuel_cell.pdf

Airbus's publication on battery technologies (29 April 2021)

FC Types: PEMFC/DMFC/AFC/PAFC//MCFC/SOFC/

Fuel cells address directly and positively contribute the challenges of global warming and problem with the environmental aspects and other climate ch…

www.sciencedirect.com

ASPILSAN announced that it is working on hydrogen-powered PEM fuel cells and dmfc (direct methanol fuel cell) and DEFC (direct ethanol fuel cell), which are subspecies of PEM. DMFC technology is also used in submarines.

https://figes.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/29_sayi_web-sikistirildi2900.pdf

Example of Ibrahim Sünnetçi for dmfc technology

REİS Sınıfı Denizaltılara Kısa Bakış

€2,060 Milyar değerindeki Yeni Tip Denizaltı Projesi (YTDAP/NTSP) altında Gölcük Tersanesi Komutanlığında inşa faaliyetleri devam eden ve 22 Aralık 2019 tarihinde donatım faaliyetleri için yüzer havuza alınan Tip 214TN REİS Sınıfı Denizaltılardan ilki olan TCG PiriReis (S-330) Denizaltısı 22...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Spook]

The U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) has awarded LiquidPiston Inc., an advanced internal combustion engine technology company, an additional $2.5 million to continue development of its 30kW X4 rotary diesel engine prototype, bringing DARPA’s total funding of the engine technology to $6M. LiquidPiston received this award after meeting the objectives for Phase I of the program, which had focused on the clean sheet design of the X4, and demonstrating the structural integrity of the new engine platform while operating under compression ignition of diesel fuel.


The objectives for the $2.5 million phase II of the program are demonstrating 30kW of power and reaching 45% net indicated fuel efficiency from the .75L X4 prototype. Development will be executed at LiquidPiston’s state-of-the-art dynamometer & engineering test facility in Connecticut.


Phase II also lays a foundation for future work. When development of the fully packaged engine is complete, the 30kW X4 engine is expected to weigh just 30lbs and fit into a 10” box, while achieving 45% brake thermal efficiency – approximately an order of magnitude smaller and lighter than traditional piston diesel engines, and also 30% more efficient. The efficient, lightweight, and powerful rotary Diesel/JP-8 X4 engine offers a disruptive power solution for direct as well as hybrid electric propulsion and power generation.

2:30 Parallel Electric-Hybrid Configuration, electric engine works in combination with combustion engine to provide boost during take off. Eventually system will be adapted so the electric engine will act as an generator to charge on board batteries.

3:18 Engine Switchover to Electric Quiet Mode

Very impressive features for a drone at this size

If these projects are successful, it can have serious implications. Especially for smaller UAVs, more lightweight vehicles, generators etc etc.

I hope we experiment with this concept too.

 

[Stimpy75]

a video of liquid piston

 

[Stuka]

BMC POWER updated their website and it is kind of different.


> Instead of "Commercialization in 2022 the now write completion of the Project in 2022".

> Mentioning of Military application has been removed.

> AZRA has the same name but first Sentence is copied from "TTZA" a small error.

> First Ignition announced to be in 2019. (wasn't mentioned before.)

> Instead of "Commercialization in 2022 the now write completion of the Project in 2022".

> UTKU now referred to as V8 Project

> New Applications added "The engine is aimed to power tracked construction equipment, trucks and buses, tractors and off-road vehicles."
But Mentioning of Military application has been removed.

> 16.2 L Combustion Volume is now announced (MTU KA-501 1000HP Engine has 18.2L Volume)

> "The engine is intended to power marine vehicles and generators."
Mentioning of Military application has been removed.

> 24.2 L Combustion Volume ( MTU 883 KA-501 1500HP has 27.4L Volume / Doosan DV27K 1500HP has 27.2L Volume)

Every Engine has removed its affiliation with the Defence Industry.
Perhaps BMC Power is trying to not associate with it and experience less headache during Export of said products.

 

[TheInsider]

I also think that way. There might be some subsystems in the logistic chain which is coming from sources that might create discontent if the military side of the projects is mentioned/expressed.

 

[Test7]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399671961672982528

 

[Stuka]

I also think that way. There might be some subsystems in the logistic chain which is coming from sources that might create discontent if the military side of the projects is mentioned/expressed.

As you have said earlier about the Project target being 2nd half 2023 for BATU 1500HP, this has been confirmed officially as well.

from April 28th BMC POWER:

Current:

 

[Hexciter]

As you have said earlier about the Project target being 2nd half 2023 for BATU 1500HP, this has been confirmed officially as well.

from April 28th BMC POWER:

View attachment 22049

Current:

View attachment 22050

“Intended to power marine vehicles & generators.”
Lol