TR Propulsion Systems

Anmdt

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They will not buy Anka + and wait for TB3 to be developed.

BANANA REPUBLIC AAJSHDJASDSA
Sounds good, doesn't work. Bayraktar TB3 won't be able to replace ANKA in terms of endurance and altitude, even if it is powered by the same engine.
They need to add SATCOM and PD170 is already 100 kg heavier than the current engine of Bayraktar, how they are going to compensate this much of weight addition, while keeping high amount of fuel to be on par with ANKA's endurance and meanwhile the altitude.
 
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adenl

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Sounds good, doesn't work. Bayraktar TB3 won't be able to replace ANKA in terms of endurance and altitude, even if it is powered by the same engine.
They need to add SATCOM and PD170 is already 100 kg heavier than the current engine of Bayraktar, how they are going to compensate this much of weight addition, while keeping high amount of fuel to be on par with ANKA's endurance and meanwhile the altitude.

Because it will have 70% more power which will mean a theoretical MTOW of +70%. From 630kg to 1070kg. PD170 uses JP8 fuel which weighs 80% of it's volume. TB2 max fuel cap. is 300L->240kg. TB2 empty weight is maximum 390kg. With PD170 it is going to be 500kg empty weight with at least another 500kg for fuel, weapons, sensors and satcom dish.

Compare this to HERON which has a MTOW of 1150kg with a 115hp engine.
 
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Anmdt

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Because it will have 70% more power which will mean a theoretical MTOW of +70%. From 630kg to 1070kg. PD170 uses JP8 fuel which weighs 80% of it's volume. TB2 max fuel cap. is 300L->240kg. TB2 empty weight is maximum 390kg. With PD170 it is going to be 500kg empty weight with at least another 500kg for fuel, weapons, sensors and satcom dish.

Compare this to HERON which has a MTOW of 1150kg with a 115hp engine.
And as if there is unlimited volume for a larger engine, stronger airframe and even a SATCOM.
What i intend to say, it is not possible to make it on par with ANKA with existing airframe, they will need to enlarge it for similar endurance (more fuel for PD170), for engine (bigger than ROTAX), for stronger ribs ( for higher MTOW).
I don't understand why people intends to render ANKA useless as if it is replaceable with TB2 or TB3.
 

Reviewbrah

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The Ukrainian manufacturer of aircraft engines Motor Sich can go to Turkey​

The Ukrainian aircraft engine manufacturer Sich may be going to Turkey, not China. As the newspaper "Vesti.ua" writes, the sale of company shares in Ankara is permitted in Kiev.

According to the newspaper, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba de facto declared that Ukraine would not facilitate China's acquisition of company shares. According to the Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine, Minister of Strategic Industry Oleg Urusky, China will not be an investor in Motor Sich.

At the same time, Urusky offered Ankara in August 2020 to acquire a 50% stake in Motor Sich for the implementation of the Ukrainian-Turkish cooperation in the field of aircraft engine construction.

It is not yet known how Kiev intends to transfer the company to Turkey, since Motor Sich's shares are de facto already owned by a group of investors from China, they will simply be confiscated. The US reaction to the future transfer of the company to the Turks is also unknown.

Vesti.ua is said to be pro-Russian media
 

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The Ukrainian manufacturer of aircraft engines Motor Sich can go to Turkey​

The Ukrainian aircraft engine manufacturer Sich may be going to Turkey, not China. As the newspaper "Vesti.ua" writes, the sale of company shares in Ankara is permitted in Kiev.

According to the newspaper, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba de facto declared that Ukraine would not facilitate China's acquisition of company shares. According to the Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine, Minister of Strategic Industry Oleg Urusky, China will not be an investor in Motor Sich.

At the same time, Urusky offered Ankara in August 2020 to acquire a 50% stake in Motor Sich for the implementation of the Ukrainian-Turkish cooperation in the field of aircraft engine construction.

It is not yet known how Kiev intends to transfer the company to Turkey, since Motor Sich's shares are de facto already owned by a group of investors from China, they will simply be confiscated. The US reaction to the future transfer of the company to the Turks is also unknown.

Vesti.ua is said to be pro-Russian media


If Turkey own the MotorSich , It will be the most important development of the year.
 

Reviewbrah

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If this is true, It will be the most important development of the year.

US is looking for American private-sector buyer for Motor Sich. If U.S can't offer good deal. Turkey will be an alternative for Ukraine.

I don't think U.S is willing to do a large investment compared to Turkey. Ukraine needs not just a investor but also a partnership.
 

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Ukraine's marine engine maker is not Motor Sich but Zorya. Motor Sich makes small marine turbines and Zorya makes the ones for war ships. And Zorya and Turkey's Lodos Propulsion already signed an agreement to look into cooperation.
 

Cabatli_TR

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Turkey is behaving very reasonable. With the bilateral relations developed with Ukraine, the required engine technologies are being transferred one by one.

AI-450 tech will be gained for Akinci drones and the most advanced Turkish variant (750hp) will be manufactured by JV institute (Blacksea Shield). It was said that the production will start in 2021.
1604603253027.jpeg

Most likely Al-25 core tech will be transfered to Turkey for MIUS jet fightet drones. I think A Turkish variant called 25TLT that is being developed in acc to power requirements of Turkish war machines will be manufactured in Turkey.
1604603121063.jpeg


and finally, a new JV institute called Lodos was established between Turkey and Ukraine. This time, Turkey will gain most powerful and modern marine gas turbine propulsion technology of Ukraine.
1604603734943.jpeg


After we received all these knowledges, I think Turkey will reveal own competitive and more advanced variants in these fields.
 

Zafer

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Turkey is behaving very reasonable. With the bilateral relations developed with Ukraine, the required engine technologies are being transferred one by one.

AI-450 tech will be gained for Akinci drones and the most advanced Turkish variant (750hp) will be manufactured by JV institute (Blacksea Shield). It was said that the production will start in 2021.
View attachment 5741
Most likely Al-25 core tech will be transfered to Turkey for MIUS jet fightet drones. I think A Turkish variant called 25TLT that is being developed in acc to power requirements of Turkish war machines will be manufactured in Turkey.
View attachment 5740

and finally, a new JV institute called Lodos was established between Turkey and Ukraine. This time, Turkey will gain most powerful and modern marine gas turbine propulsion technology of Ukraine.
View attachment 5742

After we received all these knowledges, I think Turkey will reveal own competitive and more advanced variants in these fields.
Turkey could probably develop all these turbine tech without help but it doesn't hurt to get up to speed with a little extra help. By the way as far as I can see the only part of a turboshaft engine that can be utlized for a turbofan engine is the combustion chamber. And even that part should be made custom for the turbofan.
 

Test7

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TB3 is going to be a beast of a machine with PD170!

I have doubts as to whether this will be a handicap. Using PD170 in TB3 means a bigger body. One of the main reasons TB2 is so effective is that it has a small body. I still think that an engine called PG115 will be a surprise for us.
 

Reviewbrah

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I have doubts as to whether this will be a handicap. Using PD170 in TB3 means a bigger body. One of the main reasons TB2 is so effective is that it has a small body. I still think that an engine called PG115 will be a surprise for us.

I agree but lets not forget the export side of things. I think it would be mistake for Baykar to not to make a MALE drone and overall expand their aircraft/product line.
 

Reviewbrah

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Turkey could probably develop all these turbine tech without help but it doesn't hurt to get up to speed with a little extra help. By the way as far as I can see the only part of a turboshaft engine that can be utlized for a turbofan engine is the combustion chamber. And even that part should be made custom for the turbofan.

They have infrastructure from Soviet Union and know-how/experience developed over the years.

Turkey exported drones and military radios to Ukraine last year, this year Aselsan Ukraine was formed. Turkey currently helping Ukraine with improving ammunition production. Havelsan-Ukraine agreement is signed. Meteksan-Ukraine delegation visit. TAI-Ukraine signed a cooperation agreement. Black Sea Shield and Lodos was formed for engines etc. Things we don't know

Turkish-Ukrainian partnership will not just involve tech transfer but also developing strategic partnership
 
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