TR Propulsion Systems

Combat-Master

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Mahmut F. Akşit @TEI_TUSAS GM: We delivered half of the 40 PD-170 engines ordered for Anka UAV. We will deliver the remaining half in two months.

The final format of TEI’s PD-170 aero engine
View attachment 5871
Same image from TEI website.. https://www.tei.com.tr/en/products/tei-pd170

1581686781_pd170web.png
 

Zafer

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Saithan

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I read the article as "we're working on improving the range of domestic engine".

Am I wrong ?
 

Reviewbrah

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KTJ flight tests start end of 2021 or 2022. They had problems while developing but solved majority of them.

They are trying to build a engine that meets the high standards while making it efficient.

This took very long.

Kale earned great know-how, it will be the first private company in Turkey to build a engine in this class with its own infrastructure.

They are going continue going with TR40, if KTJ have problems entering serial production. I would say they are gonna go for Ukrainian engines.
 

uzaysan

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Lodos Propulsion Energy from Turkey and Zorya-Mashproekt from Ukraine reached an agreement on a partnership.
Zorya-Mashproekt specializes in developing gas turbine engines (including ships).
View attachment 4714

I don't know but this looks fishy.

There is a presentation made by Mahmut Akşit (Head of TEI). In the video he was telling the struggles while developing TS1400. He said "Even ukraine didnt give us the tech"(for turbin blades).

Here is the link. You can look at 11:40.
Youtube video


Now, Ukraine didnt give us a single tech for 1400hp engine. But they will give some 25000HP marine engine? This doesnt make any sense. And smells bad.
 

Reviewbrah

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I don't know but this looks fishy.

There is a presentation made by Mahmut Akşit (Head of TEI). In the video he was telling the struggles while developing TS1400. He said "Even ukraine didnt give us the tech"(for turbin blades).

Here is the link. You can look at 11:40.
Youtube video


Now, Ukraine didnt give us a single tech for 1400hp engine. But they will give some 25000HP marine engine? This doesnt make any sense. And smells bad.

Ukrainians didn't get close to accepting tech transfer but majority of this is because of reaching a deal, money issues. They are trying to sell us like 6 AN-178 before they agree to co-develop co-manufacture the aircraft. They say for the majority of the stuff that they can do it by themselves. "Yaparız ederiz". Russians have the same mentality too. There is also difficulty reaching agreement for workshare.

With the recent developments, including regional conflicts, success of Turkish arms, signing strategic cooperation agreements etc. such deal is much more likely to happen. Relations develop overtime, especially for projects like this, Baykar deal and other companies cooperating will be helping us developing a relation. Turkey wants to be strategic partner not a customer.
 

uzaysan

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Ukrainians didn't get close to accepting tech transfer but majority of this is because of reaching a deal, money issues. They are trying to sell us like 6 AN-178 before they agree to co-develop co-manufacture the aircraft. They say for the majority of the stuff that they can do it by themselves. "Yaparız ederiz". Russians have the same mentality too. There is also difficulty reaching agreement for workshare.

With the recent developments, including regional conflicts, success of Turkish arms, signing strategic cooperation agreements etc. such deal is much more likely to happen. Relations develop overtime, especially for projects like this, Baykar deal and other companies cooperating will be helping us developing a relation. Turkey wants to be strategic partner not a customer.
You can be right. In the video he says "even ukraine". So we normally expect them to do what we say. Which means we have better relations compare to others. But You cant get this kind of tech with money. We are planning to establish a facility in ukraine to produce baykar drones. And we get Black shield engine company. But now we get marine engines. What did we give? Maybe we can teach them ada class corvette tech like we did with pakistan? who knows?

Or maybe we share some of our sensor tech? Ukraine said we will develop a SAM system together?

Edit: https://defencehub.live/threads/ukr...-drones-and-develop-air-defense-systems.2224/

I just learn we will produce corvettes together. Which makes sense.
 
Last edited:

Reviewbrah

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You can be right. In the video he says "even ukraine". So we normally expect them to do what we say. Which means we have better relations compare to others. But You cant get this kind of tech with money. We are planning to establish a facility in ukraine to produce baykar drones. And we get Black shield engine company. But now we get marine engines. What did we give? Maybe we can teach them ada class corvette tech like we did with pakistan? who knows?

Or maybe we share some of our sensor tech? Ukraine said we will develop a SAM system together?

Edit: https://defencehub.live/threads/ukr...-drones-and-develop-air-defense-systems.2224/

I just learn we will produce corvettes together. Which makes sense.

Ukraine buying TB-2s, which some of the payment very likely to be done by giving engines or other tech at least for future purchases. If Ukraine acquires Akıncı in the near future, it would be paid similar way. If Ukraine wants electronic systems, ships etc. it could be paid similar way.

Turkey gets to have key tech in the short term while Ukraine gets to modernize their army while also getting opportunity to turn their aging products to modern products which they can export with Turkey.
 

Anmdt

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Ukraine buying TB-2s, which some of the payment very likely to be done by giving engines or other tech at least for future purchases. If Ukraine acquires Akıncı in the near future, it would be paid similar way. If Ukraine wants electronic systems, ships etc. it could be paid similar way.

Turkey gets to have key tech in the short term while Ukraine gets to modernize their army while also getting opportunity to turn their aging products to modern products which they can export with Turkey.
Who is the receiver of the Technology for Marine gas turbines?
Lodos? That company was established in 2020, a few months ago. Founded by God knows who, do they have any background and manufacturing facility - nope. It works well for Aero engines because the tech receiver is either TEI or Kale, maybe TRMotor even if they still don't have any factory.

A transfer is described as: to convey from one person, place, or situation to another.
 

Yasar_TR

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Turkish industry came to a level of maturity in overall design and development engineering in almost all sectors and Engines became our biggest defficiency in our own products. Europe and US benefits from this situation when they want to make pressure on us so Turkey is investing heavily on engine sector and we will receive the fruits of these efforts in 5 years.

TEI: Turboshaft, Turbojet, Turbofan engines, drone turbodiesel and gasoline engines
Blacksea Shield: Drone gas turbine engines JV.
Lodos Propulsion: Marine gas turbine engines and transmission JV.
KaleArge: Cruise missiles turbojet engines
TrMotor(TEI is one of the shareholders): Tf-X turbofan engine and most likely Hürjet future turbofan engines
BMC power: All kind of turbo-diesel engines
Tümosan: All kind of turbodiesel engines
Let us not forget Tulomsas for heavy marine and land Diesel engines!
 

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SINGLE CRYSTAL TURBINE BLADE
  • Engine Turbine Blade, used in turboshaft engines and operating under the harshest conditions for engine components, has been produced with national capabilities as a first in Turkey at TÜBİTAK MAM Materials Institute High Temperature Materials Research, Development and Repair Center of Excellence.
  • Turbine blades, especially the ones for high pressure turbine modules have been produced with directional solidification (DS – ing.) and single crystal casting (SX – ing.) technologies.
Untitled-1.jpg


Turkey’s First National ENGINE TURBINE BLADE with Cooling Ducts
 

Bogeyman 

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HYDROGEN BURNER PALLADIUM CATALYSTS
View attachment 6288

A 5 kWt catalytic burner for PEM fuel cells: Effect of fuel type, fuel content and fuel loads on the capacity of the catalytic burner - Tübitak MAM project

A Field Application of a Fuel Cell Microcogeneration Unit - Page 35

In this study, the production process of hydrogen rich gas using natural gas as a feedstock has been investigated for a fuel processing system including autothermal reformer, water gas shift (WGS) (high and low temperature) and preferential oxidation reactors. The resulting gas stream has been introduced to a low temperature fuel cell unit. These two main process parts have been integrated as a 2 kWe micro cogeneration unit as a whole. In the process, the raw natural gas is cleaned, its hydrocarbon content is reformed, CO content is shifted (via WGS reactor) and finally H2 rich stream is fed to a low temperature PEM fuel cell unit. The conceptual design of the fuel cell stack components (bipolar plate and membrane electrode assembly) has been performed. The bipolar plates with a novel flow field design have been produced. The preliminary single cell performance tests have been performed for 225 cm2 active area. 2 kWe fuel cell system has been integrated and performance tests have been performed.

Durability Investigation of Graphene Supported Bimetallic Catalysts for PEM Fuel Cell Applications
topic summary page 117

Main source
 

Bogeyman 

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Using exergy for performance evaluation of a conceptual ramjet engine burning hydrogen fuel

Numerical calculation of energy and exergy flows of a turboshaft engine for power generation and helicopter applications (TEI-TS1400 Turboshaft Engine project possibly)

Exergetic Investigation of a Turboshaft Helicopter Engine Related With Engine Power

Performance of CVD graphene supported PtxCoy electrocatalysts for PEM Fuel Cell
Tübitak MAM Energy Institute - 2018 3rd International Hydrogen Technologies Congress - page 143

It should be noted that the polymer electrolyte fuel cell and PEM - proton exchange membrane technologies are particularly preferred in submarines and automobiles.
 
E

ekemenirtu

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SINGLE CRYSTAL TURBINE BLADE
  • Engine Turbine Blade, used in turboshaft engines and operating under the harshest conditions for engine components, has been produced with national capabilities as a first in Turkey at TÜBİTAK MAM Materials Institute High Temperature Materials Research, Development and Repair Center of Excellence.
  • Turbine blades, especially the ones for high pressure turbine modules have been produced with directional solidification (DS – ing.) and single crystal casting (SX – ing.) technologies.
View attachment 6287

Turkey’s First National ENGINE TURBINE BLADE with Cooling Ducts

Has this project been completed? As in, qualified for mass production? Entered mass production?

Or still at prototype stages?

Are the alloys somehow linked to Waspaloy or Hastelloy?

No mention of Nickel or nickel-based alloys Inconel, Waspaloy or Hastelloy apparently.
 

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