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How come?
TR Propulsion Systems
- Thread starter Combat-Master
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ITAR? Out of everyone which US will allow us to sell it(allies) how many of them will prefer Hurjet over the American or Italian one when we can't offer it with a domestically produced engine?
This beautiful bird has more export potential outside of NATO, atleast that's what i think.
Basically, what i mean is that, out of everyone that USA will allow us to sell Hurjet with f404 engines, how many of them will opt out of buying Hurjet?
@hugh also reply for you too, writing on mobile right now, i don't know how to add another quote while editing.
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First time I heard the second prototype. How many prototypes was built for TS1400? If I recall correctly, It might be 6.
I hope we will have some good news soon about this.
I remember hearing 8 times rebuilt / redesigned in interview
BaburKhan
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Testing of TF6000 Engine continues
The start of qualification tests for the TF6000, Türkiye's first aircraft engine and ground tests of which are ongoing, is
en.defenceturk.net
According to Defenceturk the Qualification Tests of TF-6000 will start in late 2028.
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ARAT is coming.
Arat project is not only a turbojet engine project,bu to gain higher compressed air for cumbustion for more power with improved fuel burning efficiency.I think ideal compression ratio of air is around 1:15-17.
Arat is not turbofan and likely will not be used on uav
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İ don't understand and don't condone the animosity our members have shown towards @Costin1984 .
First of all, as long as they are within forum rules our members are free to write what they think is relevant.
Now I would like to put the cat among the pigeons and play the devil’s advocate (we seem to be discussing only the niceties here. Not negatives):
Altay may be a political disaster. But nevertheless it is a failed project so far. All we have at the moment, are a lot of “ will, shall, going to” s. By the time it is ready, the age of tanks as we know it, may be over. We may have to redesign the bloody thing all over again. It has however taught us to build a tank and heavy armoured vehicle engine.
Mr Demiroglu said last month that they were waiting for congressional approval for the F404 and F110 engines to be suppled for Hurjet and KAAN. We have two new potential “Altay” cases brewing up. Are we sure that we will get those engines to start our serial production? Unless those in charge have another plan B tucked up their sleeves somewhere, it is logical to think that it is not conducive to US industry’s policies to let another aircraft manufacturer to have a foothold in the market. We are not Sweden. Our administration is not the most liked flavour of the month. They don’t like us. They tolerate us. On top of it we are stepping on their feet by dabbling in their domain!
Let us look at the TS1400 case. It still is not ready for serial production. December 2018 was the first ignition.
Same with TF6000. It s delayed further and will not be ready for serial production post 2028.
These projects are long winded projects. They take time. It was a mistake to start both Hurjet and KAAN projects without securing engine supply.
We will have our Altay in the end, even if it isn’t the same one we started out to build at the beginning.
We will have our KAAN too, even if it is delayed due to engine supply issues.
Hurjet as a trainer, should have its f404 engines. But again we are tied to US Congress’ s decisions. Light fighter and carrier versions are a big question mark though!
My only positive point to make here is that , I don’t think we are that naive to make the same mistake twice. There must be a plan B tucked up somewhere to produce the KAAN engine. It is most likely being implemented in the background and will materialise like a rabbit out of a hat.
First of all, as long as they are within forum rules our members are free to write what they think is relevant.
Now I would like to put the cat among the pigeons and play the devil’s advocate (we seem to be discussing only the niceties here. Not negatives):
Altay may be a political disaster. But nevertheless it is a failed project so far. All we have at the moment, are a lot of “ will, shall, going to” s. By the time it is ready, the age of tanks as we know it, may be over. We may have to redesign the bloody thing all over again. It has however taught us to build a tank and heavy armoured vehicle engine.
Mr Demiroglu said last month that they were waiting for congressional approval for the F404 and F110 engines to be suppled for Hurjet and KAAN. We have two new potential “Altay” cases brewing up. Are we sure that we will get those engines to start our serial production? Unless those in charge have another plan B tucked up their sleeves somewhere, it is logical to think that it is not conducive to US industry’s policies to let another aircraft manufacturer to have a foothold in the market. We are not Sweden. Our administration is not the most liked flavour of the month. They don’t like us. They tolerate us. On top of it we are stepping on their feet by dabbling in their domain!
Let us look at the TS1400 case. It still is not ready for serial production. December 2018 was the first ignition.
Same with TF6000. It s delayed further and will not be ready for serial production post 2028.
These projects are long winded projects. They take time. It was a mistake to start both Hurjet and KAAN projects without securing engine supply.
We will have our Altay in the end, even if it isn’t the same one we started out to build at the beginning.
We will have our KAAN too, even if it is delayed due to engine supply issues.
Hurjet as a trainer, should have its f404 engines. But again we are tied to US Congress’ s decisions. Light fighter and carrier versions are a big question mark though!
My only positive point to make here is that , I don’t think we are that naive to make the same mistake twice. There must be a plan B tucked up somewhere to produce the KAAN engine. It is most likely being implemented in the background and will materialise like a rabbit out of a hat.
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BaburKhan
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What will be Plan B ? The simplest Answer will be to take chinese or russian Engines in to Account. There must built a new maintainance Infrastruktur and logistics, for GE F-110 Engine it's available, for other not.İ don't understand and don't condone the animosity our members have shown towards @Costin1984 .
First of all, as long as they are within forum rules our members are free to write what they think is relevant.
Now I would like to put the cat among the pigeons and play the devil’s advocate (we seem to be discussing only the niceties here. Not negatives):
Altay may be a political disaster. But nevertheless it is a failed project so far. All we have at the moment, are a lot of “ will, shall, going to” s. By the time it is ready, the age of tanks as we know it, may be over. We may have to redesign the bloody thing all over again. It has however taught us to build a tank and heavy armoured vehicle engine.
Mr Demiroglu said last month that they were waiting for congressional approval for the F404 and F110 engines to be suppled for Hurjet and KAAN. We have two new potential “Altay” cases brewing up. Are we sure that we will get those engines to start our serial production? Unless those in charge have another plan B tucked up their sleeves somewhere, it is logical to think that it is not conducive to US industry’s policies to let another aircraft manufacturer to have a foothold in the market. We are not Sweden. Our administration is not the most liked flavour of the month. They don’t like us. They tolerate us. On top of it we are stepping on their feet by dabbling in their domain!
Let us look at the TS1400 case. It still is not ready for serial production. December 2018 was the first ignition.
Same with TF6000. It s delayed further and will not be ready for serial production post 2028.
These projects are long winded projects. They take time. It was a mistake to start both Hurjet and KAAN projects without securing engine supply.
We will have our Altay in the end, even if it isn’t the same one we started out to build at the beginning.
We will have our KAAN too, even if it is delayed due to engine supply issues.
Hurjet as a trainer, should have its f404 engines. But again we are tied to US Congress’ s decisions. Light fighter and carrier versions are a big question mark though!
My only positive point to make here is that , I don’t think we are that naive to make the same mistake twice. There must be a plan B tucked up somewhere to produce the KAAN engine. It is most likely being implemented in the background and will materialise like a rabbit out of a hat.
One delays the project at most like 1 year or 2, the other delays the project until TF-35K enters into service, which is not predictable and won't be predictable for some quite time.
If logistical challenge was a problem, we wouldn't even consider getting Eurofighters, which has one of the highest maintenance rates in terms of cost and infrastructure.
If F110 is out of table, which i personally believe that they will delay the sale of those engines as much as possible, we will have to get something else( my biased view is towards Chinese WS-15s or Ws-10s at the worst scenario where they don't sell us WS-15s. Again, this is my personal bias towards rising Chinese technological capabilities, but also for them having a better reputation on respecting the deals made, the possibility of Chinese not giving us for what we paid for them is close to zero compared to our "most precious" ally of 70+ years, it is kind of ironic.
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Kale Group Deputy Chairman Osman Okyay said in a press interview *** that the Arat engine could power some specific drones in the future as a multi-start function and long-lasting engine, which I interpreted as a study that was ongoing in the background. Kale has a very advanced test infrastructure. Of course, what is meant by drone here is a bit of a mystery, my guess is that it could be a semi-autonomous air-launched loitering decoy/payload system, or kind of kamikaze system that should be stocked in a way that can stay on the shelf for a long time with minumum maintenance. Okyay briefly summarized this as 'kind of jet-powered unmanned aerial vehicles'. Based on this, I have the idea that with Arat, high-subsonic air-launched systems with a range similar to that of main combat aircraft can be developed.
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If Turkiye has a high degree of confidence that it can produce a viable engine for KAAN eventually (of which I have no idea), why not just bite the bullet and procure or assemble a non-US, ITAR-free interim fighter? That would cover for KAAN with TF35000 not being available until the 2040's. Not ideal and while Eurofighter is really expensive to operate, it is still being improved. That seems the least worst option available to me.
I don't understand what do you mean here, why would we procure or assemble a non-US, ITAR-free interim fighter while we can just buy/import the engine only which we lack of? the only ITAR'able part of Kaan will be F110 Engines. Which we don't even consider of selling the early blocks to anyone, because we need the damn jets ourselves first.
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Sorry, my mistake. I meant an aircraft to be used by Turkish air force that did not use US components whose supply could be blocked by US. Are there any European, Russian or Chinese engines that could be used to replace F110 without redesigning KAAN?
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You are aware that we are a NATO country as well, right?
