India Quad Archive

[Zapper]

What kind of decision makers we have , if they have to put it on hold why they leased two predators and spend money and resources on training .
I dont know which platform they have which can take their place

The yanks might have the best weapons out there but for our military top brass, the most technologically advanced weapons are simply not enough...they need lucrative kickbacks to ensure financial stability for their next 5-10 generations and this aspect is something yanks are not as good as their European, Israeli or Russian counterparts. Countries who buy American weapons usually expect geo-political and strategic support from the US over mere kickbacks...something I loathe about our planners

If such a deal was with the French or Israelis, we might have signed some deal by now but the decision to put Predator deal on hold is by the govt in favor of indigenous alternatives

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496553067269009412

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497083459059462145

 

[Paro]

sanctions incoming this time hence the decision

My first thought too.

Looks like we aren’t going to cosy up with the west after all.

 

[Zapper]

My first thought too.

Looks like we aren’t going to cosy up with the west after all.

That's quite obvious even prior to this whole Russia-Ukr saga. Despite offering the latest block F-16s with ToT and localized production, we didn't even consider or thoroughly evaluate their proposal. We've seen all along on how pak was ditched by the yanks and more recently the Turks being kicked outta F-35

Yanks even offered us Patriot and THAAD to drop S400 but we know procuring any frontline fighter jet or mainstream defence system from the US would make us a puppet. It's time we fastrack the development of an engine with Safran to replace GE's F-404 and future 414 engines on which all our fighter jet programs are dependent upon

 

[crixus]

That's quite obvious even prior to this whole Russia-Ukr saga. Despite offering the latest block F-16s with ToT and localized production, we didn't even consider or thoroughly evaluate their proposal. We've seen all along on how pak was ditched by the yanks and more recently the Turks being kicked outta F-35

Yanks even offered us Patriot and THAAD to drop S400 but we know procuring any frontline fighter jet or mainstream defence system from the US would make us a puppet. It's time we fastrack the development of an engine with Safran to replace GE's F-404 and future 414 engines on which all our fighter jet programs are dependent upon

Its not only engines , we have Apaches , P-8I's , Chinooks and SIG sauers . The only reason we need those predators is the qualitative edge they will provide for surveillance .
Russia is always a more then friend but now India really need to decide , if we are OK to pay the heavy price for Russia's-West fighting . I think siding with Russia will cost us far more then siding with west . This conflict is really giving one lesson to all till we don't have inhouse capability we cant rely on others .

I am not sure what will happen to AK-203 and S-400 deals . Really wish we have invested in Barak-8 family and increase its range equivalent to S-400 and regarding Ak-203 , now its time to give deals to companies like SSS , PLR , MKU , Kalyani for small arms .

 

[Rajendra Chola]

Good decision. If this amount of money 3B had been poured in our indigenous programmes we could have a better system by now.

The thing is we make.the decision only when pushed into.the corner.

 

[Zapper]

Its not only engines , we have Apaches , P-8I's , Chinooks and SIG sauers . The only reason we need those predators is the qualitative edge they will provide for surveillance .
Russia is always a more then friend but now India really need to decide , if we are OK to pay the heavy price for Russia's-West fighting . I think siding with Russia will cost us far more then siding with west . This conflict is really giving one lesson to all till we don't have inhouse capability we cant rely on others .

I am not sure what will happen to AK-203 and S-400 deals . Really wish we have invested in Barak-8 family and increase its range equivalent to S-400 and regarding Ak-203 , now its time to give deals to companies like SSS , PLR , MKU , Kalyani for small arms .

We don't have any immediate replacements for the engines and P-8I's, neither indigenous nor from France/Israel. As for Apaches & Chinooks, we have Russian alternatives in our inventory along with HAL's helo fleet which seemed to be promising so far...all we need is LCH's in significant numbers reports say 2x LCH's can replace 1x Apache

For the Sigs, assault rifle manufacturing is fairly on the simpler side if not for our OFBs to screw up. Hire some consultants or maybe give the contract to SSS or Punj Loyd/L&T and I'm sure they can duplicate the design to produce spares

We can't rely on Russian hw anymore, they're maintenance extensive, low availability and prone to CAATSA which is why we didn't procure any major platforms in the recent past. As for AK-203, majority of the components/materials will be sourced and machined locally. IA will be paying $1k/rifle with only $80/rifle going to Kalashnikov concern...no big deal in here but I agree we should give it to a local company and ensure we own the IP. Maybe take a leaf from the Turks

 

[SirhatesALoT]

My first thought too.

Looks like we aren’t going to cosy up with the west after all.

its more like biden is perceived so weak that he is going to throw sanctions like candies

 

[Paro]

Good decision. If this amount of money 3B had been poured in our indigenous programmes we could have a better system by now.

The thing is we make.the decision only when pushed into.the corner.

The 3 billion also had centrixs communication equipment for Indian navy front-line ships. It was kind of hidden inside the sealed deal. It was very important to coordinate with the quad navy.

 

[Zapper]

The 3 billion also had centrixs communication equipment for Indian navy front-line ships. It was kind of hidden inside the sealed deal. It was very important to coordinate with the quad navy.

What it should've actually included is EMALS...but I guess Yanks wanted us to procure F-18s if we want EMALS and our guys decided it wasn't worth it and also since IN dropped plans for a 3rd carrier in favor of more subs

 

[crixus]

What it should've actually included is EMALS...but I guess Yanks wanted us to procure F-18s if we want EMALS and our guys decided it wasn't worth it and also since IN dropped plans for a 3rd carrier in favor of more subs

To be honest F-18s Block 3 with growlers is not a bad deal , these planes will give Navy the capability to defend IOR from Chinese and will force Chinese to invest much more in attack packages .

 

[Nilgiri]

To be honest F-18s Block 3 with growlers is not a bad deal , these planes will give Navy the capability to defend IOR from Chinese and will force Chinese to invest much more in attack packages .

India will have to pick a side very soon I think....much more firmly.

I do not think a CAATSA waiver will be done by US in light of what Putin is doing now.

I think France and Israel ecosystems will tip it enough to take clear call on Western side....but let us see.

Wherever possible in back channels in interim (to gain leverage)....India must simply bring Germany (and others like it in EU) to attention to DC swamp and city of london cartel ppl.

If its about defunding Russia in the end....there are bigger + closer + developed states to go after on the same principle consistency.

In the end "weapons" are just one form of thing you pay russia for to buy from them...... if West is consistent on it....it would apply to ANY money transaction.

Then they would have to demonstrate it w.r.t PRC to some degree too (much more than they have....especially after building it up like gullible twits this long).

So let us see.....but India will need to be firm in how it handles this now. Word salad weakness is cringe (but thats at just the top layer for us to see anyway).

 

[Paro]

India will have to pick a side very soon I think....much more firmly.

I do not think a CAATSA waiver will be done by US in light of what Putin is doing now.

I think France and Israel ecosystems will tip it enough to take clear call on Western side....but let us see.

Wherever possible in back channels in interim (to gain leverage)....India must simply bring Germany (and others like it in EU) to attention to DC swamp and city of london cartel ppl.

If its about defunding Russia in the end....there are bigger + closer + developed states to go after on the same principle consistency.

In the end "weapons" are just one form of thing you pay russia for to buy from them...... if West is consistent on it....it would apply to ANY money transaction.

Then they would have to demonstrate it w.r.t PRC to some degree too (much more than they have....especially after building it up like gullible twits this long).

So let us see.....but India will need to be firm in how it handles this now. Word salad weakness is cringe (but thats at just the top layer for us to see anyway).

In my opinion CAATSA wont be an issue. S400 was signed before CAATSA so there is always a way out. And right now Pacific is of higher priority as Ukraine fiasco has emboldened the chinese. They definitely need india more than never. They just have to swallow the sour pill.

 

[SirhatesALoT]

In my opinion CAATSA wont be an issue. S400 was signed before CAATSA so there is always a way out. And right now Pacific is of higher priority as Ukraine fiasco has emboldened the chinese. They definitely need india more than never. They just have to swallow the sour pill.

current sanctions imposed on russia are already tough will make trade with russia harder (payment issues) and CAATSA will be an issue to squeeze us also the meltdown by western experts and their desi counterparts is hysterical (UNSC Vote)

 

[Nilgiri]

In my opinion CAATSA wont be an issue. S400 was signed before CAATSA so there is always a way out. And right now Pacific is of higher priority as Ukraine fiasco has emboldened the chinese. They definitely need india more than never. They just have to swallow the sour pill.

I dunno, I hope you are correct.....but I got a bad feeling about whats coming up with the West vs Russia....and they will be looking to maximise sanctions on Russia wherever possible.....and they know India is likely a ripe soft prize to illustrate/demonstrate it on....even though crux of the problem lay with the West again ( in a number of different ways).

Let us see.

It depends on just how much and how long Putin keeps going as well....this will harden western resolve to cut relationship outlets he has.

 

[Ryder]

I dunno, I hope you are correct.....but I got a bad feeling about whats coming up with the West vs Russia....and they will be looking to maximise sanctions on Russia wherever possible.....and they know India is likely a ripe soft prize to illustrate/demonstrate it on....even though crux of the problem lay with the West again ( in a number of different ways).

Let us see.

It depends on just how much and how long Putin keeps going as well....this will harden western resolve to cut relationship outlets he has.

Even if the USA waivers the caatsa sanctions they will most likely ask something from India in return. Look I saved you from sanctions now you owe me something.

 

[Zapper]

To be honest F-18s Block 3 with growlers is not a bad deal , these planes will give Navy the capability to defend IOR from Chinese and will force Chinese to invest much more in attack packages .

Considering our current stance of being neutral in a US-Ruso conflict, acquiring a frontline fighter jet from the US will only bite us in the rear and make IN's aerial fleet completely reliant, prone to sanctions and reluctance to supply spares etc unless we're completely in US camp. Given china's economy and their capability to rapidly build fighter jets and naval vessels, no matter what we throw at em...they'll always have an edge

We should import weapons platforms where we haven't made any RnD development like EMALS but in case of a naval jet, we have an ongoing TEDBF project, I'd rather have all that money pumped into TEDBF rather than F-18s or the likes

 

[Zapper]

Even if the USA waivers the caatsa sanctions they will most likely ask something from India in return. Look I saved you from sanctions now you owe me something.

I believe that's the reason we procured M777, Sig-716, P-8I, Apaches, Chinooks, Guardian drones etc with a few others lined up like NASAMs, Predator, Javelin under consideration but all the later were cancelled in favor of indigenous platforms

For NASAM which was supposed to cover Delhi's NCR region, MoD is planning a layered defence consisting of S400, DRDO's AAD, PAD, Akash AD, QR-SAM and MR-SAM

For Predators, there are a few ongoing projects in advanced stages like Tapas, Ghatak etc with several private players being roped in. Govt also imposed a ban on importing drones recently

As for Javelin, IA went back n forth with Javelin & Spike initially but the contract was completely cancelled to induct DRDO's MP-ATGM. Due to delays, IA procured a limited number of Spike ATGMs (240 missiles & 12 launchers) in 2019

 

[HTurk]

Most of you guys rebuffed me when I told you that India won't be spared from CAATSA...with the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, the US government is going to be even tougher on India.

 

[Zapper]

Most of you guys rebuffed me when I told you that India won't be spared from CAATSA...with the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, the US government is going to be even tougher on India.

If US sanctions India...they're effectively loose the whole of Asia since that'll only make us closer to Russia and maybe even china. Imagine a block with Russia, India and China in the mix...NATO just can't do jack shiite no matter how many countries they rope in which is exactly what US wants to avoid. US needs India more than the other way around

As for S400, deliveries have started but we didn't receive any sanctions yet unlike Turkey which has been kicked outta the F-35 project. We're wary of these issues and limiting our defence procurements from both countries

Our govt is well aware of how US ditched pak or more recently Turkey and we've been doing a fairly decent job balancing both sides. The current Russian invasion clearly proved you will only fight your war and no country will come for your help

 

[crixus]

Most of you guys rebuffed me when I told you that India won't be spared from CAATSA...with the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine, the US government is going to be even tougher on India.

If India is supporting Russia , then such supports also comes with negotiation . Hope you remember in Dec 2021 , Putin came to India for just 6 hours , what you think he has discussed in 6 hours