TR Refugee Problem|News & Discussions

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Manomed

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Süleyman Soylu announced that 120,000(more like 8 to 12 million) Syrians who were granted citizenship in Turkey will vote.

Look at this fucking shit like they are giving these illegals citizenships just so they can win the elections what a fucking joke.
 
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borchadinho

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UNTERSTANDING THE PAKISTANI IMMIGRATION PROBLEM AND ITS IMPLICATION FOR TURKEY IN DETAIL AND SOME OTHER THOUGHTS. Unfortunately as far as i understand as foreign observer, There is or was a serious policy mistake! Compassion, empathy is all good, if it is for the right cause and most importantly in a right way! These Pakistani immigrants will be a considerable problem for turkey and very likely to be cause a cultural pollution! ( I am not a bigot nor I hate Pakistani people for their ethnicity) sadly, This is the reality and what happened prrety much every where they immigrated! Most notably London! Drugs, sex trafficking and gang violence mostly controlled by people of Pakistani origin! Now, to have a decent understaning of the implication of the problem for turkish society let's have some detailed look in the pakistan country itself. FIRST AND FOREMOST, Pakistan is a country that is undergoing complete social breakdown for decades now! This is mostly because there is a tremendous lack of education in shape and way you can imagine for decades and generations! And of course, these are all caused by some serious strategic policy mistakes that pakistan policy makers made in their domestic educational and public institutions repeatedly for a long time! Turks should have consulted us before taking to much illegal immigrants! ( I see lot of people using refugees instead illegal immigrants, which is not correct ) I mean, there is a reason why in 1971 we separated from them! Does that mean I am claiming we are far more developed than them economically or technologically ? No! Surely we don't have nukes! But It's the culture that we are blessed with! At least that's how we think when compared to pakistan! We don't have hundreds of tribes that run their own regions! Who frequently go to war with each other with lethal weapons for dominance! We don't have thousand of tribal leader who think their words is the law in their own areas! We don't have somebody get shot or same place get blown up every week in our country! But most importantly we don't kill hundreds of our women for 'honor' every year. I mean, this is the most horrific trend a society can have! Surly! We are not perfect! We have many problems in our country! And definitely far from being developed! But when I look at pakistan I feel very lucky having not any these socio cultural disasters in my country! Now the irony here! Pakistani mindset predominantly believe that, they are the most devout muslims in the world! They used to consider us ( bengali muslims) missguided and heavily influenced by hindu culture! When in reality, they are the one who has most common with pre islamic dark ages! I had a chance to ask a Pakistani 'freind' ( should I call him friend? ) once, 'wasn't one of islam's triumph and our prophet's great success to stop 'honor' killing in arab culture and completely demolish the tribal mentality from most 'tribalish' region in the world?' And before I even follow up with the actual question ( why do you guys do these horrible things then ) he immediately got worked up and I had to stop there! Unfortunately this is the reality! They can't tolerate slightest criticism and they always take everything personally or 'tribally', which is make it harder to engage with them in a civilized manner! Now, of course I am not putting all the Blame on mass people, as I stated before Pakistani policy makers made some historic mistakes. SECONDLY, AND MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, THE PAKISTAN'S BIGGEST BAD LUCK CAN BE SUMMARIZED IN A SINGLE EVENT THAT IS, WHEN PAKISTAN WAS CREATED BY MASS IMMIGRATION FROM INDIA TO CURRENT LAND THE WHOLE POPULATION WAS DEPRIVED FROM WHAT WAS THE SUBCONTINENT MUSLIM'S CULTURAL AND EDUCATIONAL CENTERS FOR CENTURIES, MOST OF WHICH ARE IN CURRENT DAY INDIA AND SOME IN BANGKADESH. AND THEY ARE DEPRIVED FROM IT FOR MORE THAN HALF CENTURY NOW. AND THAT CONTRIBUTED SIGNIFICANTLY IN A BAD MANNER FOR MANY CURRENT DISASTERS THAT ARE ON GOING NOW. last but not the least, my assessment for the current problem's solution is obvious, like many others pointed out to take a strong and secure border policy to stop the illegal immigration ( not the actual refugees who fled an actual war and critically need humanitarian assistance. And the actual 'refugee policy' can be disscuss in detail later) For example, like Pakistani illegal immigrants there were lot of 'afghan criminals and corrupted people' who actually fled the country for fear of being prosecuted by the taliban. Now return to pakistan, the only realistic way to help that Country for developed muslims countries is to take a 'LONG-TERM COMBINED STRATEGY' (this is very important, because not one country like turkey can't do it along) and establish as many schools and colleges as possible in pakistan and try to make a educational revolution for the next generations to come! It may take decades but this is best that you guys! ( my turkish freinds! ) can do. Also in that long process turkey may give some selective scholarship for higher education to those bright Pakistani students who will be graduating from those 'colleges'. It will create slowly some cultural influence ( in a good way) from turkey to pakistan. I think this is plausible and possible becouse this is now what i observing, happening between two of our countries (bangladesh and turkey). it is a win win situation for both countries! ( 90 percent of Bangladeshi that currently lives in turkey are university students, The rest 10 percent mostly bissnessemen) there is lot of investment happening in both countries from each other! Turks are helping us with some technological development! We are helping them with our expertise in clothing and garments industry! Special add: I see some people here with ultra nationalistic views claiming that, turkish citizenship should only determined by blood! In 21th century this is totally outdated and obsolete concept! And this assessment is has nothing to do with so called 'ummah mentality' or liberalism! You can ask a 'dead secular' economist! He will still tell you that, in a free market based heavily interdepended capitalist world this is a very bad idea! And it will only hurt the development of a developing country! As a national strategy You want to attract foreign talents and bright minds for your own benefit! Like the way America does! Of course this is not the same as taking unprecedented numbers of refugees that you can't handle! And also, from a advanced civilized point of view this is (citizenship based on race) a ridiculous idea! Turkish identity should be based on turkish culture and way of life. not on the race and color of skin. ( this is same for every country, including mine)

@Afif this is why it is important for people like you and @Nilgiri to educate the people here about the cultural and political differences between India and Bangladesh in comparison to countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan. This forum is read by all kinds of Turks and many don't know the dynamics of the sub-continent, many don't even know sadly why 71 happened and surprisingly alot of so called "secular" minded Turks here support Pakistan, without knowing this one sided relationship was driven by mainly by political Islamists like Refah and led to Turkey losing opportunities with both India and Bangladesh.

This general ignorance includes topics like the support the Ottomans received from the sub continent which was mainly driven by Indians and Bengalis, facts have to be stated. This includes the genocide committed on Bengalis by Pakistanis. There is no other nation and people bar Iran and Saudi in there own ways that have misused religion as a tool much as Pakistan and Afghanistan, this is not limited to the states. Unfortunately we have got the taste of that in the recent years within our own internal politics and what a bad taste it was.

While India and Bangladesh have there share of problems and our cultures couldnt be more different. I have not seen these two communities export there problems to other countries as we see with Pakistanis and Afghans. Afghanistan is a lost cause and Pakistan is fast paced headed in the same direction after it took a U turn from its founders vision.

This is not the place for this in this thread but I have said here before that this problem would not exist at this level had these illegals been from a different country, there is a larger social reason that every tiktoker filming women and children are from the said countries. Turks have had a cold shower with these arrivals and it was well deserved because making everyone your "brother" was not what this country was founded for.

The role of women and children in society is shaped primarily by family and it takes decades to change, education institutions can only change so much, it is not Turkish tax payers job to educate Pakistanis. The reaction I have personally seen from the "educated", English speaking, social elite and 2nd generation Pakistanis, Afghans itself is disturbing. A simple visit to the same thread on PDF you will see the levels of whataboutism on this topic.

On citizenship, Turkey was founded in desperate times on the blood of millions of Turks. It is natural for Turks to question why citizenship is being sold and given to people who have made no sacrifice, contribution or have no attachment whatsoever to these lands, emotionally, culturally and politically. The lack of transparency and blatant misuse for politcal reasons of the granting of citizenship is why you see the anger here.

Like Bangladesh Turkey was founded as a homeland for Turks and everyone who feels like a Turk. This was in a struggle to preserve our cultural and political identity against political entities that wanted to wipe the existence of Turkish identity from these lands. The vision Mustafa Kemal Ataturk put forward for us, the realisation he gave us of our identity is trying to be moulded into something else and destroyed altogether. There is a larger more sinister game being played, the illegal crises is manufactured by external powers and political islamists at home.
 
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Tonyukuk

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1 733 155 foreigners acquired the citizenship in 2022.


Sadly, it looks like this is exactly what the government wants. I can assure you that nearly all the adults that make up that number will vote for AKP, whether they're Pakistanis, Afghans, Syrians or wealthy Gulf Arabs. RTE is the only politician fully willing to keep Afghans, Syrians and Pakistanis. His economic policies also benefit wealthy people from the gulf, who are living like kings in Turkey. The only losers here are Turks. AKP just gained hundreds of thousands of new voters. Meanwhile they are trying hard to make peace with Assad, who refuses to meet with them... At the same time, Greece is building a huge new border wall.

Not good.
 

Afif

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@Afif this is why it is important for people like you and @Nilgiri to educate the people here about the cultural and political differences between India and Bangladesh in comparison to countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan. This forum is read by all kinds of Turks and many don't know the dynamics of the sub-continent, many don't even know sadly why 71 happened and surprisingly alot of so called "secular" minded Turks here support Pakistan, without knowing this one sided relationship was driven by mainly by political Islamists like Refah and led to Turkey losing opportunities with both India and Bangladesh.

This general ignorance includes topics like the support the Ottomans received from the sub continent which was mainly driven by Indians and Bengalis, facts have to be stated. This includes the genocide committed on Bengalis by Pakistanis. There is no other nation and people bar Iran and Saudi in there own ways that have misused religion as a tool much as Pakistan and Afghanistan, this is not limited to the states. Unfortunately we have got the taste of that in the recent years within our own internal politics and what a bad taste it was.

While India and Bangaldesh have there share of problems and our cultures couldnt be more different. I have not seen these two communities export there problems to other countries as we see with Pakistanis and Afghans. Afghanistan is a lost cause and Pakistan is fast paced headed in the same direction after it took a U turn from its founders vision.

This is not the place for this in this thread but I have said here before that this problem would not exist at this level had these illegals been from a different country, there is a larger social reason that every tiktoker filming women and children are from the said countries. Turks have had a cold shower with these arrivals and it was well deserved because making everyone your "brother" was not what this country was founded for.

The role of women and children in society is shaped primarily by family and it takes decades to change, education institutions can only change so much, it is not Turkish tax payers job to educate Pakistanis. The reaction I have personally seen from the "educated", English speaking, social elite and 2nd generation Pakistanis, Afghans itself is disturbing. A simple visit to the same thread on PDF you will see the levels of whataboutism on this topic.

On citizenship, Turkey was founded in desperate times on the blood of millions of Turks. It is natural for Turks to question why citizenship is being sold and given to people who have made no sacrifice, contribution or have no attachment whatsoever to these lands, emotionally, culturally and politically. The lack of transparency and blatant misuse for politcal reasons of the granting of citizenship is why you see the anger here.

Like Bangladesh Turkey was founded as a homeland for Turks and everyone who feels like a Turk. This was in a struggle to preserve our cultural and political identity against political entities that wanted to wipe the existence of Turkish identity from these lands. The vision Mustafa Kemal Ataturk put forward for us, the realisation he gave us of our identity is trying to be moulded into something else and destroyed altogether. There is a larger more sinister game being played, the illegal crises is manufactured by external powers and political islamists at home.
Thank you for your reply! I think we can have more detailed discussion on the issues that you bringed up, however, Further post may be deleted by the moderator because this not the thread for that kind of discussion. So I am gonna write another detailed article ( should I call it article? ) in turkish foreign policy thread. I suggest you engage me there.
 

Afif

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Sadly, it looks like this is exactly what the government wants. I can assure you that nearly all the adults that make up that number will vote for AKP, whether they're Pakistanis, Afghans, Syrians or wealthy Gulf Arabs. RTE is the only politician fully willing to keep Afghans, Syrians and Pakistanis. His economic policies also benefit wealthy people from the gulf, who are living like kings in Turkey. The only losers here are Turks. AKP just gained hundreds of thousands of new voters. Meanwhile they are trying hard to make peace with Assad, who refuses to meet with them... At the same time, Greece is building a huge new border wall.

Not good.
No actually these are not mostly Pakistani or afghans. Most of them are wealthy ukrainian and russian citizens and some arabs from Gulf countries who want transfer their bissnesse in turkey given the war and sanctions that is going on. And for that, as you propably know foreigner had to buy a house in turkey by nearly half million dollars for that citizenship. That is huge amount of money that is coming in turkey ( 400k dollar equals to annual gdp of 35 avarage turks. ) So in this way, unlike giving syrian and afghan refugees free citizenship a huge amount of direct foreign investment coming in turkey. So, you may not agree with the current government's other policies ( some of them were disastrous ) rightfully or wrongly, however, as a foreign observer and a student of geopolitics this particular policy in the current situation and context ( I mean the current economic situation in turkey and the war that happening in its neighborhood ) is the best policy option any government could take. And no, from that particular policy (in a narrow sense and I am not talking about afghan or syrian refugee porblems ) I don't think the avarage turks will be the real loosers here. first and foremost, these people unlike refugees, are highly educated and civilized as they were the upper class in their own country. So they are not gonna cause any cultural pollution like that one happened with refugees. Last but not the least, there are some highly skillful engineers among these people from ukraine who can contribute greatly to turkish tech industry.
 

I_Love_F16

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No actually these are not mostly Pakistani or afghans. Most of them are wealthy ukrainian and russian citizens and some arabs from Gulf countries who want transfer their bissnesse in turkey given the war and sanctions that is going on. And for that, as you propably know foreigner had to buy a house in turkey by nearly half million dollars for that citizenship. That is huge amount of money that is coming in turkey ( 400k dollar equals to annual gdp of 35 avarage turks. ) So in this way, unlike giving syrian and afghan refugees free citizenship a huge amount of direct foreign investment coming in turkey. So, you may not agree with the current government's other policies ( some of them were disastrous ) rightfully or wrongly, however, as a foreign observer and a student of geopolitics this particular policy in the current situation and context ( I mean the current economic situation in turkey and the war that happening in its neighborhood ) is the best policy option any government could take. And no, from that particular policy (in a narrow sense and I am not talking about afghan or syrian refugee porblems ) I don't think the avarage turks will be the real loosers here. first and foremost, these people unlike refugees, are highly educated and civilized as they were the upper class in their own country. So they are not gonna cause any cultural pollution like that one happened with refugees. Last but not the least, there are some highly skillful engineers among these people from ukraine who can contribute greatly to turkish tech industry.

I forgot to mention that 1 476 368 of these foreigners consists of Syrian. It is mentioned in the tweet posted above.
 

Afif

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I forgot to mention that 1 476 368 of these foreigners consists of Syrian. It is mentioned in the tweet posted above.
I am not denying it. There are some refugees who may getting citizenship but mostly it is Russians and Ukrainians in 2022. I read a detailed report on that. Unfortunately I can't find the link right now, but if I do, I will post it here!
 

I_Love_F16

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That’s a first step towards integration. If they wants to be Turkish and fully blends into the culture, then it’s good, I’m okay with it.

If not, I’m sure Umit Bey will take care of it.
 

Afif

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That’s a first step towards integration. If they wants to be Turkish and fully blends into the culture, then it’s good, I’m okay with it.

If not, I’m sure Umit Bey will take care of it.
That's not fair! you don't need change to your name to integrate into a society and or culture
 

Tonyukuk

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That’s a first step towards integration. If they wants to be Turkish and fully blends into the culture, then it’s good, I’m okay with it.

If not, I’m sure Umit Bey will take care of it.
I guarantee it's for votes. If AKP accelerates gifting citizenship to refugees, they can potentially have over 3 million extra votes. Change their names and no one will suspect a thing.
 

Afif

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This is rif
I guarantee it's for votes. If AKP accelerates gifting citizenship to refugees, they can potentially have over 3 million extra votes. Change their names and no one will suspect a thing.
This is ridiculous logic! Anyone can tell a syrian from a turk
 

Tonyukuk

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That's not fair! you don't need change to your name to integrate into a society and or culture
That's because the aim here isn't really integration. It's to boost AKP's chance of winning by adding refugees to the voterbase. AKP claims that 200k Syrians have citizenship. This isn't enough to make a major difference. The opposition says that there is around 1.5 million Syrians with citizenship. Obviously people wouldn't be happy with this because of all the headaches they've caused. So AKP wants to change their names so no one knows the real number of refugees.
 

Tonyukuk

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This is rif
This is ridiculous logic! Anyone can tell a syrian from a turk
It's not about seeing them on the street and looking at their ID... It's about what's on the database.
 

I_Love_F16

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That's not fair! you don't need change to your name to integrate into a society and or culture

Well, let’s say that they have no other choices, because currently there is a huge anti-refugees sentiments in Turkiye. So if they wants to stay in Turkiye it’s better for them to change their names.

However like @Tonyukuk stated in he’s post, it can be a ruse from AKP to gain more votes. That would not surprise me either.
 

Afif

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Well, let’s say that they have no other choices, because currently there is a huge anti-refugees sentiments in Turkiye. So if they wants to stay in Turkiye it’s better for them to change their names.

However like @Tonyukuk stated in he’s post, it can be a ruse from AKP to gain more votes. That would not surprise me either.
But why would akp need these 'special votes' when every previous time they won the election by a large margin anyway?
 

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