Defence Q&A S-400 or F-35 for Turkey ? |Debate and Discussion

[what]

Another embarassing and probably futile step by Hulusi Akar in Hürriyet. He proposed a Cyprus-Crete S300 kind of scenario to solve the S400 issue. The government fucked up so bad, they are now offering putting the 2bln € system somewhere else, in another place to get rid of the sanctions and access to F35.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359050404454137856

 

[Lool]

Thanks for your pov. I agree that whoever comes next must keep playing the buddy game. But have to rebuild the economy without sacrificing our gains. Once our economy starts improving. I bet you we’ll see increased activity to try to weaken us in our neighborhood.

Turkey should be as economic strong as Germany, nuclear power like UK and Turk as Atatürk wanted.

Playing the game but improving our hand and our cards is never wrong.

But alas we have politics and power struggle. And days of reckoning is coming.

As long as TSK has the leadership expected of Atatürks armed forces then I’m happy.

Hisar O+ and current AD should be produced in enough quantities to be tested out in different combat scenarios.

For a better economy, you need to reduce imports and increase the exports
The recent breakdown in the lira and the rapid increase in food prices etc just showed how dependent Turkey is on imports. It has been reduced in the recent years but not by enough

Moreover, the recent covid outbreak forced Turkey to make some sacrifices which has been aggravated by the dependence on imports

 

[Saithan]

For a better economy, you need to reduce imports and increase the exports
The recent breakdown in the lira and the rapid increase in food prices etc just showed how dependent Turkey is on imports. It has been reduced in the recent years but not by enough

Moreover, the recent covid outbreak forced Turkey to make some sacrifices which has been aggravated by the dependence on imports

Imports aren’t the main issue here. Budget discipline is, fiscal policy is. RTE and his AKP personelle since 2016 is.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

hello everyone , I am new here but if its ok with you guys ( Turks ) to have a foreign opinion then I would be grateful .

I truly believe that the s400 acquisition and trashing the f-35 program is one of the best things happened in the recent decade . I wont talk about the military technical aspect since non here is involving directly in both programs including me.

one thing we wont know for sure , is the s400 decision was from the government or the TSK ? we wont cuz the west now would love to use any kind of dispute between the turkish government and TSK in order to make both those parties look weak in the eyes of turkish people and the world . but I believe its a mutual understanding between both of them ( RTE & Akar ) since politicians can't understand fully why s400 is a good system and the army won't understand the political consequences of such decision .

if it wasn't for the s400 acquisition then the turkish 5th gen fighter wont be pushed this far and might even be canceled , the TF-X results will last until the end of are time , in 2050 maybe turkey will have 6th gen fighter based on the knowledge of the 5th gen and on 2100 the 7th gen and etc .... while looking at the arabs since 60s until now can't even manufacture a single blade .

also I guess that tec transfer of s400 would help the turkish engineers to understand more on those kind of missiles and maybe or inshallah on maybe 2030s Siper block II would have 350+ Km based on the knowledge acquired from the s400 or we take the to new level s400 block II ,, we may never know .

I really hope that RTE or whoever comes next keep playing this middle finger card to the west because we may lose everything just to satisfy some fat western pedo politicians that made money out of turkish people .

one last thing I red before even though sounds possible but yet won't make sense , I red that RTE bought the s400 so in any future coup he would be able to down the f-16 fighter since the current SAM that turkey have wont fire at any Nato Ally system so he count on a russian one .

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Huelague]

Imports aren’t the main issue here. Budget discipline is, fiscal policy is. RTE and his AKP personelle since 2016 is.

Of course, import is one main issue.

 

[Lonewolf]

Of course, import is one main issue.

Turkish curtain and mats are quite good .

But except defense i don't know about some major manufacturing company from turkey , neither in service sector of IT , can you share some major players which can make it big

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Exports in turkey wil exceed 200 billion for the first time in history. Turkey just need to try to manufacture everything on their own to become a economic superpower like germany. But please dont forget that muslim countries dont have the same privelige and luxury when it comes developing. No one wants to see a strong and prosperous muslim country. Do you guys think turkey will become first a millitary big power or a economical power?

 

[Lool]

Exports in turkey wil exceed 200 billion for the first time in history. Turkey just need to try to manufacture everything on their own to become a economic superpower like germany. But please dont forget that muslim countries dont have the same privelige and luxury when it comes developing. No one wants to see a strong and prosperous muslim country. Do you guys think turkey will become first a millitary big power or a economical power?

Turkey needs both economic and military power
However, i think it will be an economic powerhouse before a military one
Turkey already is seeing low budget defecits and literally broke through the export targets of 2021 and 2022. Moreover, sources state that several FTA are being worked on with other countries which will increse exports, and reduce the trade deficit even further
Turkey is also recently entering the AI field, Cyber field, and the Phone manufacturing field.
Yet still much more needs to be done
Military technology takes time to be validated and applied

 

[LegionnairE]

@Lool
Notice how the only people who think Turkey is doing well economically do not live in Turkey?

There's a good reason for that.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Turkey needs both economic and military power
However, i think it will be an economic powerhouse before a military one
Turkey already is seeing low budget defecits and literally broke through the export targets of 2021 and 2022. Moreover, sources state that several FTA are being worked on with other countries which will increse exports, and reduce the trade deficit even further
Turkey is also recently entering the AI field, Cyber field, and the Phone manufacturing field.
Yet still much more needs to be done
Military technology takes time to be validated and applied

Hopefully they will progress in all areas. But econamically it will be harder but they on a good way. Far away from its true potential but step by step.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

@Lool
Notice how the only people who think Turkey is doing well economically do not live in Turkey?

There's a good reason for that.

Who claims the economy is doing well in turkey?

 

[LegionnairE]

Who claims the economy is doing well in turkey?

Even Saudi Arabia surpassed Turkey in GDP. We can't even catch up to the saudis and you're talking about becoming an economical superpower like Germany. It's not even funny.

We're so broke, we sold half the stock exchange to the Qataris.

 

[what]

Even Saudi Arabia surpassed Turkey in GDP. We can't even catch up to the saudis and you're talking about becoming an economical superpower like Germany. It's not even funny.

We're so broke, we sold half the stock exchange to the Qataris

10% were sold and while the first part of your post is not wrong, ownership of a stock exchange is hardly a factor here. Many stock exchanges of economic powerhouses are foreign owned completely or at least partially.

And importing less is not the solution. We might as well stop there economy then. I know where you guys are coming from but the answer is exporting more. Creating value in the country.


But this thread is about S400. We have a separate thread for the economy.

 

[AWP]

sorry to ask this provoking question but I really would love to see what the Turks think .

do you think turkey have the political power to use the s-400 that they own on any time they want and deploy it on any location within the turkish border ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

sorry to ask this provoking question but I really would love to see what the Turks think .

do you think turkey have the political power to use the s-400 that they own on any time they want and deploy it on any location within the turkish border ?

Administration do not have the political power to do so. But the S400 system is the property of Turkish Armed Forces now. In the event of war, if they see fit and vital, they will use it at any time and deploy it in any place they deem necessary.
But to be honest with you; Turkey’s own AD systems being gradually integrated in to the layered air defence structure, are going to perform so much better that this Russian Junk (to me it is exactly that due to it being a stand alone system) will not see any action even in the event of a war.

 

[Lool]

Even Saudi Arabia surpassed Turkey in GDP. We can't even catch up to the saudis and you're talking about becoming an economical superpower like Germany. It's not even funny.

We're so broke, we sold half the stock exchange to the Qataris.

Idk what to say
This isnt how economics works my friend
You are misunderstanding the main idea of GDP
Idk how are you comparing Turkey and KSA tbh
You cant just look at the value per say
Just tell me what does KSA produce other than oil? Nothing!
You are underestimating one of the top exporting countries in terms of black gold

And if your criteria for being "broke" is having less GDP than KSA, then Turkey was god damn shit broke ever since 1938....... no offense though

 

[LegionnairE]

@Lool
I'll just let the data talk.

And what did German economy do in the last 20 years?

From 2 trillion to nearly 4 trillion dollars.

 

[Lool]

@Lool
I'll just let the data talk.
View attachment 29678

And what did German economy do in the last 20 years?

View attachment 29679

From 2 trillion to nearly 4 trillion dollars.

May I ask why did KSA's GDP increased between 2016-2018
Iam intrigued tbh as KSA until now is a country that produces nothing but oil


And as for Germany, they were always known for the export of high-quality high-end products like cars, chemical plants etc.... Not to mention that Germany is way too technologically advanced compared to Turkey and the Germans have the EU behind its back. Why on earth do you think the current government wants to renew the trade deal with the EU?

 

[Lonewolf]

Administration do not have the political power to do so. But the S400 system is the property of Turkish Armed Forces now. In the event of war, if they see fit and vital, they will use it at any time and deploy it in any place they deem necessary.
But to be honest with you; Turkey’s own AD systems being gradually integrated in to the layered air defence structure, are going to perform so much better that this Russian Junk (to me it is exactly that due to it being a stand alone system) will not see any action even in the event of a war.

S 400 isn't junk , maybe it being standalone with turkish fleet makes it liability more than asset ,but not junk per se .

 

[Lool]

sorry to ask this provoking question but I really would love to see what the Turks think .

do you think turkey have the political power to use the s-400 that they own on any time they want and deploy it on any location within the turkish border ?

No they dont
Turkey cant stand against full pissed USA for now tbh

But Turks are Turks
Erdo probably bought it as a sort of ....."FQ you".... to the west for their support of the YPG and Greece

 

[AWP]

Administration do not have the political power to do so

this is really sad knowing that s-400 radar max range 600km , so if it was deployed in izmer for example it will cover the entire country of greek making it's future f-35 unflyable only if the american sanction it due to the scare of being detected by s-400 radar .

but honestly , is it only the s-400 that turkey have no power to deploy it near the western border or more than that ? I mean something like the current 300+km bora missile or the future bora 2 missile that have more range to it , is it also in the ( turkey can't do ) list ?

and if in the future Siper system and the EIRS radar system was finished , would turkey deploy or the same s-400 loophole ?