TR Sensors and Detector Programs

Yasar_TR

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Are they talking about multiple systems being able to act as a multistatic radar?
I am no radar specialist. My electromagnetic radiation knowledge doesn’t go further than second year University electronics and electric exam papers. But it sure does sound like along those lines.
As far as I can understand from what I am reading and hearing, this is a radar system that will encompass the whole country and every radar that is connected to the EIRS network. By networking and triangulating signals, somehow EIRS can identify those invisible platforms, rendering them visible. It must have limitations with range and power delivery etc. But it seems like this is a ground breaking innovation of a radar system that our engineers at Aselsan have managed to build.
 

YeşilVatan

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I am no radar specialist. My electromagnetic radiation knowledge doesn’t go further than second year University electronics and electric exam papers. But it sure does sound like along those lines.
As far as I can understand from what I am reading and hearing, this is a radar system that will encompass the whole country and every radar that is connected to the EIRS network. By networking and triangulating signals, somehow EIRS can identify those invisible platforms, rendering them visible. It must have limitations with range and power delivery etc. But it seems like this is a ground breaking innovation of a radar system that our engineers at Aselsan have managed to build.
I can't even begin to imagine the complex software and computing power this whole system requires. If this happens, we would go from virtually lacking a ground based air defence to having one of the most robust air defence networks ever constructed. I assume other side of the medallion would be anti-ballistic missile capability.

I have some questions on the subject;
How effective would this area denial system be against neigbouring areas like Northern Syria and Sea of Islands?
Moving from the same principle, can a version of this be deployed at sea, using unmanned vessels and such?
 

uçuyorum

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I can't even begin to imagine the complex software and computing power this whole system requires. If this happens, we would go from virtually lacking a ground based air defence to having one of the most robust air defence networks ever constructed. I assume other side of the medallion would be anti-ballistic missile capability.

I have some questions on the subject;
How effective would this area denial system be against neigbouring areas like Northern Syria and Sea of Islands?
Moving from the same principle, can a version of this be deployed at sea, using unmanned vessels and such?
It might help that Turkey is one of the few countries that can connect such systems with underground infrastructure directly near the area of interest.
 

Huelague

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I am no radar specialist. My electromagnetic radiation knowledge doesn’t go further than second year University electronics and electric exam papers. But it sure does sound like along those lines.
As far as I can understand from what I am reading and hearing, this is a radar system that will encompass the whole country and every radar that is connected to the EIRS network. By networking and triangulating signals, somehow EIRS can identify those invisible platforms, rendering them visible. It must have limitations with range and power delivery etc. But it seems like this is a ground breaking innovation of a radar system that our engineers at Aselsan have managed to build.
As far as I know @Nutuk is one.
 

Anmdt

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I can't even begin to imagine the complex software and computing power this whole system requires. If this happens, we would go from virtually lacking a ground based air defence to having one of the most robust air defence networks ever constructed. I assume other side of the medallion would be anti-ballistic missile capability.

I have some questions on the subject;
How effective would this area denial system be against neigbouring areas like Northern Syria and Sea of Islands?
Moving from the same principle, can a version of this be deployed at sea, using unmanned vessels and such?
They have multi-static radar on TF-2000 project (at least for latter block of CAFRAD suite) assuming that CAFRAD's long range radar shares the same backbone as EIRS (as well as the Siper AD's search radar) these all can be formed into multi-static groups within itself or cross-platform. I don't think that all of those will be equipped with necessary processing power but one-two units remaining in "passive" mode.
 

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They have multi-static radar on TF-2000 project (at least for latter block of CAFRAD suite) assuming that CAFRAD's long range radar shares the same backbone as EIRS (as well as the Siper AD's search radar) these all can be formed into multi-static groups within itself or cross-platform. I don't think that all of those will be equipped with necessary processing power but one-two units remaining in "passive" mode.

Do elaborate. I thought multi-static means having antenna and receiver in two different places. (Cross platforms only)
 

Yasar_TR

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Do elaborate. I thought multi-static means having antenna and receiver in two different places. (Cross platforms only)
Below should shed some light :

1716471522469.jpeg
1716471559065.png

Quote
A multistatic radar system contains multiple spatially diverse monostatic radar or bistatic radar components with a shared area of coverage. An important distinction of systems based on these individual radar geometries is the added requirement for some level of data fusion to take place between component parts.
Unquote.

Multistatic radar permits three-dimensional target localisation, if an adequate number of transmitters and/or receivers are present. The bistatic range obtained from such systems defines ellipsoids whose foci are at the position of the transmit-receive pair.
1716471848431.jpeg

May be we should have @Nutuk involved in this discussion?
 

TheInsider

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Below should shed some light :

View attachment 68202 View attachment 68203
Quote
A multistatic radar system contains multiple spatially diverse monostatic radar or bistatic radar components with a shared area of coverage. An important distinction of systems based on these individual radar geometries is the added requirement for some level of data fusion to take place between component parts.
Unquote.

Multistatic radar permits three-dimensional target localisation, if an adequate number of transmitters and/or receivers are present. The bistatic range obtained from such systems defines ellipsoids whose foci are at the position of the transmit-receive pair.
View attachment 68205
May be we should have @Nutuk involved in this discussion?
EIRS is a network-based multistatic radar. EIRS radars synchronize time and frequency values when operating in multistatic mode basically the whole network acts as a single radar. This type of synchronization is an extremely difficult task to achieve. It is inherently different than forming a combined air picture by hooking different radars to a network. EIRS does not have MIMO(multiple input multiple output) capability. The first Aselsan MIMO radars will appear from late 2026 onwards.
 

Afif

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What I am confused about is how @Anmdt saying a CAFRAD suit can form its own mutli-static architecture when all the array are on the same platform. Or maybe I misunderstood.
 

Anmdt

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Do elaborate. I thought multi-static means having antenna and receiver in two different places. (Cross platforms only)

1716481490872.png


There are some graphs here that illustrates better and why a spatial difference needed among radars to create an area that is watched in a multi-static manner.
The question arises when they need to sync the radars (frequency, phase, orientation of the platform), time-tag the bulk information and later process those. This seems hard when we rely on BLOS unless it is a star-link like low altitude system.
 

Anmdt

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Aselsan's new taxonomy;

Family - Class - Field - Spared Use

Such as AKREP now refers to all fire control radars, AKREP-100N (and NI) refers to AKR-A, AKREP-300N is AKREP (or old AKR-B B2), AKREP-1000A is MFR of Siper.

CENK-300N is CENK-S, CENK-200N is likely MAR-D, CENK-200NI is MAR-D B2.

The last 'I' letter is not clear, thus i addressed it as spared use and took it for - Improvement, referring to an improved block. i.e. MAR-D on Gökdeniz and standalone MAR-D do not possibly attain same power output levels thus the 'I' suffix is given to notify for improved/improvement.

The class does not necessarily indicate a range performance nor proportional to the range of units among or across families, but sets the superiority among the family members. While they maintain AKREP on all fields, for search radars they go with ALP, MURAD and CENK families, so the logic is simple; if something is readily codenamed then keep it, otherwise make it fit to a family.

Class is three characters and first one sets the main class, second one sets the sub-class. i.e. submarine systems based on an existing naval system receives *10, same for if a naval system is adopted from an air system; ASELFLIR-410N.

Attempted to decode it as far as i could. ALPER-200N is LPI radar for surface platforms, ALPER-210N is for submarine platforms, etc.
 

Anmdt

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1717134520056.png


Should belong to Aselsan's DIRCM and mentioned platform integration studies.
 

Saithan

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Below should shed some light :

View attachment 68202 View attachment 68203
Quote
A multistatic radar system contains multiple spatially diverse monostatic radar or bistatic radar components with a shared area of coverage. An important distinction of systems based on these individual radar geometries is the added requirement for some level of data fusion to take place between component parts.
Unquote.

Multistatic radar permits three-dimensional target localisation, if an adequate number of transmitters and/or receivers are present. The bistatic range obtained from such systems defines ellipsoids whose foci are at the position of the transmit-receive pair.
View attachment 68205
May be we should have @Nutuk involved in this discussion?
Would such a complex system be able to integrate passive radar relays if we for instance had buoys on sea that work as a spiderweb ?

could mix and match the buoys to cover subsurface, surface and air if necessary. Depending on complexity the buoys might be of various sizes.
 

Radonsider

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View attachment 68338

Should belong to Aselsan's DIRCM and mentioned platform integration studies.
Screenshot_2024-05-30-17-25-49-881_com.google.android.apps.docs~2.jpg

According to this slide, every EO system designed for KAAN have faceted low-RCS covers, even the DIRCM.


Which would make it the first 5th gen aircraft to maintain stealth and get a complete EO suite. Infact this might be the most complete EO suite in any of the fighters out there
 

DBdev

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@TheInsider

Is there any info on theorized fully passive IRST+IIR missile firing solution. And it's range against an F-35 or better stealth targets like wider spectrum, newer stealth tech of 6th generation B-21 Raider?

Also is there any info on starting a completely separate and completely passive (as in undetectable from air and satellites by completely hiding in dense forests except their IIR camera masts) Turkish IRNET project that gives us another layer of protection against western stealth systems even if our RADNET is destroyed by them using cutting edge DEAD?

Interesting article:
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA566304.pdf
 
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DBdev

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Which would make it the first 5th gen aircraft to maintain stealth and get a complete EO suite. Infact this might be the most complete EO suite in any of the fighters out there
DAS is 360 IR this front only IRST might be longer range than DAS but is blind in many directions, isn't it? Kizilelma, KAAN etc. desperately need another DAS like system of IR cameras to give them omnidirectional situational awareness.
 

Afif

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DAS is 360 IR this front only IRST might be longer range than DAS but is blind in many directions, isn't it? Kizilelma, KAAN etc. desperately need another DAS like system of IR cameras to give them omnidirectional situational awareness.

It is literally in the image he shared.
 

DBdev

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It is literally in the image he shared.
Where are the 6 IR cameras of KAAN located in the picture? And what is the resolution of 360 day and night cameras compared to F-35
Is MWIS same as MWIR ?

Is F-35 EOTS e Aselsan EOTS comparable?
As far as I saw from very little amount of videos they showed aselsan has very outdated zoom technology and only can see the amount of detail F-35 can see from 90km at most from 20km -30km or so. Nikon handheld cameras have better zoom and they cost like 1000 bucks not 1 million dollars.



https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-a...-the-resolution-of-day-view-through-the-plane
 
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Afif

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Where are the 6 IR cameras of KAAN located in the picture?

Nothing is installed on the first prototype shown in th image. What do you expect to see? Each of the components that will be part of EO suite is individually shown above KAAN.
 

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