TR Sensors and Detector Programs

[Sanchez]

Any guess on why are we seeing the radar first time, mounted on Akıncı and not on F16

Most probably because TurAF have no intentions of selling F-16s.

 

[uçuyorum]

Most probably because TurAF have no intentions of selling F-16s.

Maybe because F16 are all owned by military, but akinci prototypes are privately owned. Baykar is advertising products jointly with aselsan, why would army advertise its foreign bought inventory?

 

[begturan]

Akıncı PT-3 test flight with Murad-100A AESA radar.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895776544561541157

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The first candidate target could be Haftar's aircraft. Gains combat proven quickly.

 

[Nilgiri]

@Anmdt (and anyone else that can maybe shed more insight)

I was doing deep dive into more radar technology, basically to try to assign power levels for naval wargaming in domain of electronically scanned arrays w.r.t planar phase shift (more well known in general to layfolk as PESA, AESA etc) versus frequency scanned (older, simpler tech).

Firstly I was wondering if ASELSAN et al ever developed/deployed a frequency scanned radar or Turkiye went straight to phase-shift (given advantages of AESA commensurate to Turkish defence industry capacity maturation + grown needs coinciding circa ~90s).

This is where I left my deep-dive for now resource wise roughly:

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/36698821.pdf (coincidentally this is thesis by Turkish naval officer at US Naval PG School)

American lineage regd it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/SPS-48 (the papers given as sources)

Secondly in my case to come to some idea of final power level for say a (standalone, no support) destroyer/frigate having a fregat M2EM russian (Frequency scanned) radar versus say MFSTAR or equivalent AESA. Would the latter be like 1.5 times, twice etc? I understand if you aren't really a "radar" guy regd naval domain of this stuff and don't want to estimate/guess at it....but this may be interesting aside anyway for audience here.

 

[TheInsider]

Screenshot from the new Baykar video. Akıncı test with MURAD radar. 160nm is roughly 300km. UAV version of MURAD looks good. Murad radar is tracking target number 2.

 

[Boykaz]

Screenshot from the new Baykar video. Akıncı test with MURAD radar. 160nm is roughly 300km. UAV version of MURAD looks good. Murad radar is tracking target number 2.

160 nm mile? 160 km? which one

 

[TheInsider]

160 nm mile? 160 km? which one

160nm.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Corresponds to just under 300km

 

[TheInsider]

Well, some people say the scale is km, but I doubt it. The Navy and the Air Force use nm, the Navy also uses yards for sonar operations (yarda in Turkish).

MURAD is developed for the air Force in mind and not only the Turkish Air Force but most of the airforces around the world also use nm so my money is on nm.

 

[Shtr]

Forgive my ignorance but I can not understand why these numbers must say something meaningful. I think this is just about UI and it may be better to divide the area into 4 and putting target in the 2nd area. I wanted to say screen can be adapted into a different scale and shows different numbers. Showing 160 does not mean its maximum target area or it can reach even that area. There is only one truth at this screen that it can detect targets around 60-80 nm or km.

 

[Boykaz]

Eh, bazıları ölçeğin km olduğunu söylüyor ama ben bundan şüpheliyim. Deniz Kuvvetleri ve Hava Kuvvetleri nm kullanıyor, Deniz Kuvvetleri ayrıca sonar operasyonları için yard (Türkçe'de yarda) kullanıyor.

MURAD, Hava Kuvvetleri için geliştirildi ve sadece Türk Hava Kuvvetleri değil, dünyadaki çoğu hava kuvveti de nm kullanıyor, bu yüzden paramı nm'ye yatırıyorum.

The Akıncı's flight was conducted approximately 100-120 km away from Tekirdag , near Çanakkale, so it cannot be in nautical miles (Nm). It would be more logical to express the test range in kilometers because in the video, a target is detected at 120 (Nm or Km). If it were 120 Nm, it would be 225 km, which would involve detecting an object flying over the Black Sea.

 

[TheInsider]

View attachment 74072 View attachment 74073
The Akıncı's flight was conducted approximately 100-120 km away from Keşan, near Çanakkale, so it cannot be in nautical miles (Nm). It would be more logical to express the test range in kilometers because in the video, a target is detected at 120 (Nm or Km). If it were 120 Nm, it would be 225 km, which would involve detecting an object flying over the Black Sea.

Ok, but which target? There are multiple targets in the video and obviously the video is cut and montaged.


BTW coverage is -70 to +70 degree so 140 degree in total.

I took this screenshot @ 0:36 your screenshot is from 0:37 this is the target from your screenshot.

 

[TheInsider]

Screenshot @0:35 this is a better version of the screenshot i took above. Scale is different in this 30-60-90-120 with the same -70 +70 degree coverage. There should be no doubt this is nm.

 

[uçuyorum]

Ok, but which target? There are multiple targets in the video and obviously the video is cut and montaged.


BTW coverage is -70 to +70 degree so 140 degree in total.

I took this screenshot @ 0:36 your screenshot is from 0:37 this is the target from your screenshot.

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Remember detection distance is related to rcs, so a larger target may be detected and tracked from a longer distance, but if here it is between 40 and 80nm this means a target from 100km+

 

[Boykaz]

Since these are the initial tests, I thought that maybe the Akıncı, Bayraktar TB2, etc., could have taken off from Tekirdağ for target detection while flying around the Çanakkale area. This is because some targets are locked on, and I don’t think a random lock could have been placed on any aircraft. But as you mentioned, there may have been some manipulation in the video; you’ve caught it very well. Whether it's in kilometers or nautical miles, the guaranteed range is over 100 km."

Screenshot @0:35 this is a better version of the screenshot i took above. Scale is different in this 30-60-90-120 with the same -70 +70 degree coverage. There should be no doubt this is nm.

View attachment 74076

 

[boredaf]

View attachment 74072 View attachment 74073
The Akıncı's flight was conducted approximately 100-120 km away from Tekirdag , near Çanakkale, so it cannot be in nautical miles (Nm). It would be more logical to express the test range in kilometers because in the video, a target is detected at 120 (Nm or Km). If it were 120 Nm, it would be 225 km, which would involve detecting an object flying over the Black Sea.

They are clearly measuring its speed at kn, so they could've used nm as air force already does.

 

[Ripley]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1905559210592522397

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1905598192730730831

Tayfun Özberk:

“The Turkish defense industry currently produces approximately 80% of the systems required for a submarine, as I mentioned earlier.

The most critical components in the remaining 20% were the propulsion systems and periscope systems. Aselsan has developed its periscope solutions and signed a contract to modernize the periscopes of Gür and Preveze-class submarines and to supply periscopes for MİLDEN.

This means that periscope systems have now also been indigenized.”

 

[No Name]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1905559210592522397

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1905598192730730831

Tayfun Özberk:

“The Turkish defense industry currently produces approximately 80% of the systems required for a submarine, as I mentioned earlier.

The most critical components in the remaining 20% were the propulsion systems and periscope systems. Aselsan has developed its periscope solutions and signed a contract to modernize the periscopes of Gür and Preveze-class submarines and to supply periscopes for MİLDEN.

This means that periscope systems have now also been indigenized.”

questions: didn't Turkey also develop its own indigenous propulsion systems for MILDEN?

We were talking about it a while back.

 

[Yasar_TR]

questions: didn't Turkey also develop its own indigenous propulsion systems for MILDEN?

We were talking about it a while back.

In short, No!
There is work on indigenous AIP propulsion. But no concrete results as yet
Hydrogen Fuel Cell PEM (Proton Exchange Membrane) propulsion is a new technology and needs a lot of work. There are only a handful of countries that have access to the technology.

Even if this is possible, there is no manufacturer in Turkey, that can provide the Diesel engines and generators that these submarines need. German MTU diesel engines have been propelling submarines for the last 50 or so years. There are some manufacturers also in US like Paxman and GM.

This too is a very specialised and niche product.

Milden, may take technical know how and even help from Navantia S80 subs. We will know more about it in coming months. Apart from the propulsion the rest of the ship, including design aspects are almost totally indigenised.

“We Would be Glad to Cooperate with Türkiye in the MILDEN Program as We Have Done in Surface Ships!”

The S-81 Submarine ‘Isaac Peral`, the first Spanish-designed and built submarine, was launched in May 2021, conducted the initial sea trials and its first navigation in the Bay of Cartagena in May 2022, performed its first static dive in March 2023 and commissioned on November 30, 2023. Since...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[No Name]

In short, No!
There is work on indigenous AIP propulsion. But no concrete results as yet

To be clear, the company working on the project was aspi̇lsan, right?