TR Sensors and Detector Programs

[Yasar_TR]

The Sea Acceptance Tests of the YAKAMOS 2020 Hull-Mounted Sonar System, which we integrated into a surface platform produced in line with the needs of the Turkish Naval Forces Command, were successfully completed in November.

The submarine platform assigned as the test support vessel during the Sea Acceptance Tests is equipped with submarine sonar systems that were also developed and integrated by Meteksan Defense as part of its sonar suite. With this activity, the competence of our underwater acoustic product family on different platforms has once again been demonstrated.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1998374888780845298

We have an Aselsan built towed array sonar called DUFAS too. But there are advantages and disadvantages as stated in below Infograph.

Summary Comparison

Feature	Towed Sonar	Hull-Mounted Sonar
Primary Use	Deep water, long-range ASW, detailed surveys	Shallow water, navigation, basic fish finding, obstacle avoidance
Image Quality	High, due to reduced ship noise interference	Lower than towed (in deep water), affected by ship noise
Operating Depth	Excellent (can reach specific depths to counter thermal layers)	Limited effective range/depth
Ease of Use	Complex; requires training and coordinated operation	Simple; "set and forget" operation
Vessel Speed	Limited while deployed	No speed limitations
Cost	More expensive	Relatively inexpensive

Although our DUFAS may or may not be as sensitive as the CAPTAS-4 used on FREMM frigates, it is still quite a capable system classified as long range low frequency towed array.

One special capability made public about DÜFAS is its ability to suggest appropriate countermeasure tactics and ship evasion manoeuvres automatically when a torpedo threat is detected. Most details are otherwise classified.
DUFAS was intended for the I-Class ships. But we don’t know if they are fitted.

Aselsan unveils DÜFAS variable depth sonar system - Naval News

Turkish defence company Aselsan announced that the low-frequency variable depth sonar "DÜFAS" achieved initial operational capability.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Anmdt]

We have an Aselsan built towed array sonar called DUFAS too. But there are advantages and disadvantages as stated in below Infograph.

Summary Comparison

Feature	Towed Sonar	Hull-Mounted Sonar
Primary Use	Deep water, long-range ASW, detailed surveys	Shallow water, navigation, basic fish finding, obstacle avoidance
Image Quality	High, due to reduced ship noise interference	Lower than towed (in deep water), affected by ship noise
Operating Depth	Excellent (can reach specific depths to counter thermal layers)	Limited effective range/depth
Ease of Use	Complex; requires training and coordinated operation	Simple; "set and forget" operation
Vessel Speed	Limited while deployed	No speed limitations
Cost	More expensive	Relatively inexpensive

Although our DUFAS may or may not be as sensitive as the CAPTAS-4 used on FREMM frigates, it is still quite a capable system classified as long range low frequency towed array.

One special capability made public about DÜFAS is its ability to suggest appropriate countermeasure tactics and ship evasion manoeuvres automatically when a torpedo threat is detected. Most details are otherwise classified.
DUFAS was intended for the I-Class ships. But we don’t know if they are fitted.

Aselsan unveils DÜFAS variable depth sonar system - Naval News

Turkish defence company Aselsan announced that the low-frequency variable depth sonar "DÜFAS" achieved initial operational capability.

www.navalnews.com

Both Aselsan and Meteksan produces hull mounted sonars, as far as i know both using transducers / hydrophones made by TUBITAK. And both have been favorably performing well. Aselsan has the upper hand for supplying most of the sensors, to manage budget and integration. Meteksan on the other hand been prefferred for more niche requirements.

They also have renamed Hızır Torpedoe Countermeasure System as DUFAS, since the towed array makes a part of the whole DUFAS system. The current complete size of the DUFAS integrated separately with its own winch, yet I-Class has no sufficient space for this. Altogether, they may install DUFAS-CU, the compact version.

Hull mounted sonar also is not operable beyond a certain speed, due to the noises. Practically there is no limit, but technically it is limited.

Hull mounted sonar is operated by one console, Towed array + VDS has several consoles.

Let me correct myself; It was DUFAS which was called HIZIR-DUFAS at first, now each renamed in its own product family as HIZIR-100, DUFAS-100

 

[TheInsider]

Having a lot of acoustic sensors in the sea and networking them is more important than the capability of a single sensor. DUFAS or our hull mounted sonars might not be the best in the world, but deploying a lot of them together with a lot sonobuoy and networking them will net better results than using arguably better several CAPTAS-4. Listening to a lot of layers, listening with a lot of sensors, collecting and processing big data wins the underwater game.

 

[zio]

Having a lot of acoustic sensors in the sea and networking them is more important than the capability of a single sensor. DUFAS or our hull mounted sonars might not be the best in the world, but deploying a lot of them together with a lot sonobuoy and networking them will net better results than using arguably better several CAPTAS-4. Listening to a lot of layers, listening with a lot of sensors, collecting and processing big data wins the underwater game.

Thats what Aselsan call it multistatic sonar system.Bythe way there are two companies for sonar systems,at first meteksan was chosen but later armelsan-aselsan get supported,thats not good for for a niche sector.Some products are overlapped such as yakamos/fersah systems.Meteksan yakamoz 2020 will be used on ada class 4 system,babür class 4 system,cinnah class 6 system,for ukrayna milgem 2 system (+2) ,romania 1,hisar class 10 system,almost 30 system is cleared.Armelsan fersah system,barbaros YÖM 4 system,İstif class 8 system,TF-2000 4 system,total 16 system,but tendency for armelsan will continue on surface and submarine ships,for example Preveze YÖM started with meteksan but later they transformed to armelsan/aselsan.Armelsan/Aselsan also made Düfas system which is very important for sub hunting,and also makes a mine detection,dipping sonar for helos,and also for submarine sonar systems.Meteksan now on struggle to live with,but they announced yesterday for the modernization of submarine sonar system for a unknown foreign country,thats a life kiss for them.If meteksan success making synthetic aperture sonar system,they will get an opportunity in civil sector.Another window for Meteksan is they are making sonar for akya heavy torpedos. Overall we have two firms on niche sector,I hope they both survive on long term.

 

[zio]

I think aseflir 600 can detect an F-35 far from any fighters nose FCR ,but it does not mean to track and shoot.

 

[Huelague]

I think aseflir 600 can detect an F-35 far from any fighters nose FCR ,but it does not mean to track and shoot.

How? By searching the whole sky?

 

[boredaf]

I think aseflir 600 can detect an F-35 far from any fighters nose FCR ,but it does not mean to track and shoot.

And you are basing this on what?

 

[zio]

Medium wave infrared sensor can detect a fighter plane at 100km on high altitude with clear sky.Everybody says that,a lot of news an articles on the net.

 

[TheInsider]

Murad-100A AESA performs better than expected. Seasoned F-16 pilots couldn't hide their astonishment after seeing what the radar can do.

 

[Shtr]

Which AESA radars have our pilots had experience with so far?

 

[Pokemonte13]

Which AESA radars have our pilots had experience with so far?

AN/APG-68 with its different variations up V9 (not aesa)
Only one i know is e7 wedgetail our awacs but that is mesa

 

[TheInsider]

Which AESA radars have our pilots had experience with so far?

SABR, CAPTOR, RBEE (RAFALE), Chinese AESAs (Pakistan)

 

[Afif]

SABR, CAPTOR, RBEE (RAFALE), Chinese AESAs (Pakistan)

I doubt you could test wartime modes of those radars without owning the platforms. I don't think Eurofighter consertium, French or Chinese are gonna be particularly happy if their customers were leaking sensitive performance peremter of their AESA sensor to third party. (Not that I doubt MURAD-100A is a good radar.)

 

[Merzifonlu]

I doubt you could test wartime modes of those radars without owning the platforms.

You're right, but as a country that produces radars with AESA technology, we can still more or less estimate the true capabilities of these radars. If our pilots are satisfied, then the MURAD 100a AESA Radar is good enough.

 

[Yasar_TR]

You're right, but as a country that produces radars with AESA technology, we can still more or less estimate the true capabilities of these radars. If our pilots are satisfied, then the MURAD 100a AESA Radar is good enough.

We mustn’t forget that during multiple Anatolian Eagle exercises, Qatari Rafales and Typhoons and Pakistani JF17 block-3s have participated where Turkish pilots were able to see what they were up against.

 

[Quasar]

in real world any successful outcome/product of an engineering process does exactly what it was designed to do.

 

[Sanchez]

We mustn’t forget that during multiple Anatolian Eagle exercises, Qatari Rafales and Typhoons and Pakistani JF17 block-3s have participated where Turkish pilots were able to see what they were up against.

I believe our guys' collective reaction to all those experiences over the years basically were, "oh we are so cooked against these modern jets". Wish we get to read some memoirs on TurAFs 2010s in the future.

But I really doubt all those trainings ever came close to actual real world experience other than "yeah, we're cooked." Export control and all that.

 

[Huelague]

I doubt you could test wartime modes of those radars without owning the platforms. I don't think Eurofighter consertium, French or Chinese are gonna be particularly happy if their customers were leaking sensitive performance peremter of their AESA sensor to third party. (Not that I doubt MURAD-100A is a good radar.)

Who said, they were happy.

 

[TheInsider]

I doubt you could test wartime modes of those radars without owning the platforms. I don't think Eurofighter consertium, French or Chinese are gonna be particularly happy if their customers were leaking sensitive performance peremter of their AESA sensor to third party. (Not that I doubt MURAD-100A is a good radar.)

Wartime mods of those radars are tested and well known. Qatar-Turkiye has a joint squadron in Qatar. Pilots and technicians who work in that squadron plan and fly the missions together. This is not training together; it is forming a joint squadron. Turkish F-16s also trained extensively with Pakistan's JF-17s. Turkiye also collected a large amount of radar data in Anatolian Eagle exercises. That is why we know that the radar and kinematic capability of Typhoon is superior to that of Rafale.

 

[boredaf]

Has there been any news about Fulmar 500?