TR Space Space Programs

[Agha Sher]

Selcuk Bayraktar talked about an important point reached in a project of strategic importance for Turkey:

"We will launch low-orbit satellites that will form the National Global Positioning System (GNSS). The system will consist of about 100 satellites and will be a new generation GNSS. In a sense, this system will ensure our independence in the skies. It will be very important and strategic in terms of our sovereignty.
These are being done with the revenues we receive from unmanned aerial vehicles. We have built 2 satellites, we were ready for launch, but the launch was postponed. We will launch our first satellite this year."

Selçuk Bayraktar also shared brief information about Fergani's other projects:
"Among our future goals is to build 50 tonne launch vehicles We are building an orbit transfer vehicle to move a satellite from one orbit to another in space."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1834896582447124906

A 50 ton launch vehicle would be able to deliver approx 1000 kg to LEO if comparing it with Firefly or Relativity Space. That would be a good start!

 

[Zafer]

The launch capacity depends of the launch site. Firefly launches from Vandenberg in California which is at the same latitude as the south coasts of Cyprus. If a rocket is launched from an equatorial site it can probably carry 40% more payload. A 50 ton launcher is likely to be a 30m tall rocket. This size of a rocket makes a ship borne launch an attractive proposition. So a launch capacity of 1000-1500 kg is to be expected.

 

[Strong AI]

latitude

East, West is Longitude. No?

 

[Zafer]

East, West is Longitude. No?

Longitude is vertical segmentation and is irrelevant in this case as distance from the Equator is what matters because the Earth rotates around the Equator. Latitude is horizontal segmentation and indicates the distance from the Equator.

 

[Pilatino]

Even İran send her 10th leo sat with her own SLV in this year but we're still seeing CGI to dream about it.

 

[Agha Sher]

Even İran send her 10th leo sat with her own SLV in this year but we're still seeing CGI to dream about it.

Roketsan is being painfully slow. Hopefully Fergani Space can accelerate things.

 

[Strong AI]

Longitude is vertical segmentation and is irrelevant in this case as distance from the Equator is what matters because the Earth rotates around the Equator. Latitude is horizontal segmentation and indicates the distance from the Equator.

View attachment 70628

Oh, now i understand why it is east/west for longitude and north/south for latitude.

 

[Zafer]

Considering Starlink satellite weights seen below 1 to 6 satellites per launch can be achieved with a 50 ton launch system

 

[somegoodusername]

Roketsan is being painfully slow. Hopefully Fergani Space can accelerate things.

Neither Selçuk Bayraktar is Elon Musk,nor Baykar is an advanced tech company like Roketsan or TÜBİTAK. While they excel at mass-producing lower-end technology, space tech is a serious field that requires extreme precision and high expertise. Although I appreciate the work they're doing, Bayraktars' recent public statements have been very unwise and in contrast with the statements from our meritocratic defense bureaucracy and experts. Unfortunately, their voices are amplified due to political reasons.

Just compare wages in Baykar to our SANs and see who gets the better part of our educated workforce.

 

[Sanchez]

Roketsan is being painfully slow. Hopefully Fergani Space can accelerate things.

Fergani is working on second stage tugs and small sats, not rockets. I fail to see how they can accelerate rocket development.

While they excel at mass-producing lower-end technology

They are literally working unmanned fighters and satellite swarms as we speak.

 

[Zafer]

Neither Selçuk Bayraktar is Elon Musk,nor Baykar is an advanced tech company like Roketsan or TÜBİTAK. While they excel at mass-producing lower-end technology, space tech is a serious field that requires extreme precision and high expertise. Although I appreciate the work they're doing, Bayraktars' recent public statements have been very unwise and in contrast with the statements from our meritocratic defense bureaucracy and experts. Unfortunately, their voices are amplified due to political reasons.

Just compare wages in Baykar to our SANs and see who gets the better part of our educated workforce.

Wages do not explain much. Baykar have lots of cash on hand and can experiment a lot. It sounds like Elon Musk style doesn't it, lots of cash and the will to make achievements.

 

[TheInsider]

Fergani is not developing launch systems. They bought DeltaV(not exactly, I'm talking figuratively), and they will use the launch system and space tug DeltaV has been developing.

 

[dBSPL]

The formation of a self-financing ecosystem within the sector, without being directly dependent on state funding, is actually what needs to happen. There are currently defense and aerospace companies that have formed very valuable core staff and have incredibly high potential. DeltaV is probably one of the most prominent among them, perhaps the most prominent. If Baykar can fund this company effectively, it is possible that they will achieve a development that will resonate all over the world. Baykar in general is very effectively structured; never mind where they are now, these guys are laying the foundations for where they will be in 20 years.

*

The other issue is the ballistic missile test site to be established in Somalia, is now being brought to the forefront again by western media outlets. I think the issue should be seen not only in the context of space activities, but also in the context of the Turkish navy's major expansion plan from the Sea of Oman to the Mozambique Channel, the defense cooperation with Malaysia and perhaps Indonesia on the industrial side, which is aimed to reach a strategic scale, the Basrah Gulf and the basing in Somalia. You already know the situation with Pakistan, we have started to provide very critical technology transfers, especially recently, and probably these will not be one-way. This picture may be seen as worrying for some countries.

 

[somegoodusername]

They are literally working unmanned fighters and satellite swarms as we speak.

The technologies we're discussing are already 10-15 years old and will be even more outdated, at 15-20 years old, by the time they’re fully implemented. Just because they’re the most advanced tech that the public can comprehend doesn’t mean they are the most cutting-edge technologies in existence. We may not even have 10 people in the country capable of working on the kinds of projects currently being developed in the US and China.

Turkish people often misinterpret Turkey’s current catch-up in military technology, which comes after Western countries began demilitarizing post-Cold War. The primary reason we are using American jets and tanks in out military is that our domestic defense industry couldn’t keep pace with the rapid advancements during the Cold War arms race. However, after the Cold War ended, and Europe entered a dolce vita period, Turkey, being in a constant threat environment, was able to close the technological gap, when other countries didn't push the gas pedal too much.

One of the lessons from the Russia-Ukraine war is that the myth of possibility of being a military giant while remaining an economic dwarf during the Cold War has been debunked.

Now, as the US-China arms race intensifies, we are having a significant delay in adapting 5th generation aircraft in our air force. If the Kaan Block 20 enters service in 2033, Turkey will be 15-20 years behind in upgrading its air force to current tech. And 6th gen fighters are on the way.

 

[mehmed beg]

I don't see any European Kizilelma flying? Or how much is Eurodron and is it in use?

 

[somegoodusername]

I don't see any European Kizilelma flying? Or how much is Eurodron and is it in use?

The reason for that is the same as why you live in the UK and not Bosnia. Europeans don’t need it. No voters demand "Kızılema" If the threat environment changes to one where they do, they have the capability to develop something like "Kızılelma" within 10 years and produce a version twice as advanced of "Kızılelma 2", in the next decade after that.

Read about the history of World War II military technology. The defense industries of all Yugoslav, Romanian, Czech, Swedish, and many other middle and minor powers became obsolete within just two-three years of actual military demand.

After all, Turkey’s economy is only 24% the size of Germany’s, 33% of the UK’s, and 36% of France’s. Every year, thousands of Turkish engineers leave Turkey to work in these countries, but you don't see the reverse happening.

 

[mehmed beg]

The reason for that is the same as why you live in the UK and not Bosnia. Europeans don’t need it. No voters demand "Kızılema" If the threat environment changes to one where they do, they have the capability to develop something like "Kızılelma" within 10 years and produce a version twice as advanced of "Kızılelma 2", in the next decade after that.

Read about the history of World War II military technology. The defense industries of all Yugoslav, Romanian, Czech, Swedish, and many other middle and minor powers became obsolete within just two-three years of actual military demand.

After all, Turkey’s economy is only 24% the size of Germany’s, 33% of the UK’s, and 36% of France’s. Every year, thousands of Turkish engineers leave Turkey to work in these countries, but you don't see the reverse happening.

I live in UK for the reason other then being a guest worker. Other of your discourse didn't answer what I said. Does Germany possess ballistic missiles? Regardless of the sizes of given economies, Germany doesn't have ballistic missiles?
And by the way, all what you have been saying is not unknown but tell us what would you do.
Please spare me of ww2 conjectures or something similar live that, so go on and say what exactly you would do or want?

 

[Sanchez]

The technologies we're discussing are already 10-15 years old and will be even more outdated, at 15-20 years old, by the time they’re fully implemented. Just because they’re the most advanced tech that the public can comprehend doesn’t mean they are the most cutting-edge technologies in existence. We may not even have 10 people in the country capable of working on the kinds of projects currently being developed in the US and China.

Turkish people often misinterpret Turkey’s current catch-up in military technology, which comes after Western countries began demilitarizing post-Cold War. The primary reason we are using American jets and tanks in out military is that our domestic defense industry couldn’t keep pace with the rapid advancements during the Cold War arms race. However, after the Cold War ended, and Europe entered a dolce vita period, Turkey, being in a constant threat environment, was able to close the technological gap, when other countries didn't push the gas pedal too much.

One of the lessons from the Russia-Ukraine war is that the myth of possibility of being a military giant while remaining an economic dwarf during the Cold War has been debunked.

Now, as the US-China arms race intensifies, we are having a significant delay in adapting 5th generation aircraft in our air force. If the Kaan Block 20 enters service in 2033, Turkey will be 15-20 years behind in upgrading its air force to current tech. And 6th gen fighters are on the way.

Sorry, this is just a hodgepodge of ideas thrown around.

The technologies we're discussing are already 10-15 years old

Tech we are talking about isn't obsolete or outdated. If anything, satellite swarms and drone fighters are literally the future.

Turkey’s current catch-up in military technology, which comes after Western countries began demilitarizing post-Cold War.

Turkey's catchup is found in late 80s economic boom and some small number of Turkish inventors seeing the future correctly.

The primary reason we are using American jets and tanks in out military is that our domestic defense industry couldn’t keep pace with the rapid advancements during the Cold War arms race.

No one's could, except US, USSR and France to a degree. Current arms race however is different. At the moment there are no real game changers and name of the game is to first catch old capabilities for most of the nations, not soaring into the future. Ukraine also showed us that present capabilities are not going anywhere. Capability to churn out 20000 155mm shells a week is more important than HGVs and F-35s for Ukraine.

Now, as the US-China arms race intensifies, we are having a significant delay in adapting 5th generation aircraft in our air force. If the Kaan Block 20 enters service in 2033, Turkey will be 15-20 years behind in upgrading its air force to current tech. And 6th gen fighters are on the way.

Turkey is not in arms business to fight it out with China and US. It's in arms business to handle its own needs, create allies and to make money. Fighter generations from this point forward are meaningless and are nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Kaan will be a better 5th gen fighter than F-22 in every metric available.

I fail to see your general point.