TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Windchime

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KF-21 won't be a 5th gen fighter jet anyway as the aircraft could hold only 12,000lb (about 5,500kg) of fuel internally. This will severely restrict its combat radius. By contrast, F-35 is designed to carry 18,250lb (about 8,278kg) even though it is a single-engine fighter jet. This is why there is an early talk of moving to KF-XX in Korea.
Fuel capacity is not the biggest problem here since unlike the F-35, KF-21's design philosophy and main role in service are DCA and deep strike using stand off weapons. 12,000 lbs could still do the job for those mission profiles.

There are bigger problems on the avionics side, especially in terms of EMI-EMC of the avionics that would either be newly added or conformalized to make it a 5th gen VLO fighter.
 

TechNamu

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Fuel capacity is not the biggest problem here since unlike F-35, KF-21's main role in service are DCA and deep strike using stand off weapons. 12,000 lbs could do tbe job for those mission profiles.

There are bigger problems on the avionics side, especially in terms of EMI-EMC of the avionics that wpuld either be newly added or conformalized.

I am not sure how could you claim the Internal fuel capacity is not one of the biggest problems. It means KF-21 Block III could play a severely limited role in intercepting hostile aircrafts. Additionally, KF-21 Block III is designed to carry only 2 X AIM-120 missiles & 4 X 250 pound GBU-39 bombs in IWB, which means It won't have any meaningfull deep strike capability unless It gives up on stealth and uses external hardpoints.

Avionics are actually least of the concern as It is realistic to implement them block by block. However, structural limitation is difficult to overcome.
 
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B_A

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I am not sure how could you claim the Internal fuel capacity is not one of the biggest problems. It means KF-21 Block III could play a severely limited role in intercepting hostile aircrafts. Additionally, KF-21 Block III is designed to carry only 2 X AIM-120 missiles & 4 X 250 pound GBU-39 bombs in IWB, which means It won't have any meaningful deep strike capability unless It gives up on stealth and uses external hardpoints.

Avionics are actually least of the concern as It is realistic to implement them block by block. However, structural limitation is difficult to overcome.
btw,haven't korean the plan that manufacture national AAM like Japan and Turkiye?

i think you should not use AIM-120 in next generation fighter
 

TechNamu

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btw,haven't korean the plan that manufacture national AAM like Japan and Turkiye?

i think you should not use AIM-120 in next generation fighter

ROK has anounced plans to develop various missiles for KF-21, including both short-range and BVR AAM. However, the airforce will continue using American missiles including AIM-120, AIM-260 and European missiles such as the Meteor because a) Korea is planning on being an ally of the United States for any foreseeable future and b) Korea believes this wide-range of weapon integration will help KF-21 in the export market.
 

Windchime

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I am not sure how could you claim the Internal fuel capacity is not one of the biggest problems. It means KF-21 Block III could play a severely limited role in intercepting hostile aircrafts. Additionally, KF-21 Block III is designed to carry only 2 X AIM-120 missiles & 4 X 250 pound GBU-39 bombs in IWB, which means It won't have any meaningfull deep strike capability unless It gives up on stealth and uses external hardpoints.

Avionics are actually least of the concern as It is realistic to implement them block by block. However, structural limitation is difficult to overcome.
Obviously I'm basing that on missions currently envisioned for KF-21s. What a future fighter, be it a block 3 or KF-XX, would fulfill is still an unknown for us and we could only speculate. And as a purely DCA fighter just like KF-16s, once more, that fuel capacity isn't the biggest deal breaker. With stand off I've implied the extensive usages of long range ALCMs like Chunryong. There's not a single stealth fighter that could load a missiles of that size internally as of now, not even F-35. F-35s will carry JASSM and LRASMs externally for instance.

Also, avionics IS a concern due to the fact that it would require an extensive (re)certification process to work out the EMI problems and make it EMC conforming.

I'll stop here since I'm getting way off topic.
 
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TechNamu

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Obviously I'm basing that on missions currently envisioned for KF-21s. What a future fighter, be it a block 3 or KF-XX, would fulfill is still an unkown for us and we could only speculate. And as a purely DCA fighter just like KF-16s, once more, that fuel capacity isn't ths biggest deal breaker. With stand off I've implied the extensive usages of long range ALCMs like Chunryong. There's not a single stealth fighter tha could load a misille of that size internally as of now, not even F-35. F-35s will carry JASSM and LRASMs externally for instance.

Also, avionics IS a concern due to the fact that it would require an extensive (re)certification process to work out the EMI problems and make it EMC conforming.

I'll stop here since I'm getting way off topic.

Not sure how obvious it was since you replied to this specific quote
KF-21 won't be a 5th gen fighter jet anyway as the aircraft could hold only 12,000lb (about 5,500kg) of fuel internally. This will severely restrict its combat radius. By contrast, F-35 is designed to carry 18,250lb (about 8,278kg) even though it is a single-engine fighter jet. This is why there is an early talk of moving to KF-XX in Korea.
Clearly I was talking about hypothetical KF-21 Block III, the 5th gen fighter aircraft and I plainly explained my reservation as KF-21's seemingly lack of internal fuel in contrast to F-35 will limit KF-21 Block III's role as a stealth multirole combat aircraft and that's why ROKAF is already considering a new platform, KF-XX.

If you were not interested in discussing the potential upgrade of KF-21 as a LO~VLO aircraft then I don't understand why you even bothered commenting on internal fuel as you and I both understand that non-stealth KF-21 will carry drop tanks & long-range missiles externally for those missions anyway.

I strongly implied the improvements that are required to evolve KF-21 into a true 5th gen fighter aircraft may need various structural changes and may be nearly impossible or too impractical for KAI/ROKAF to undertake. Meanwhile, avionics are also challenging, but they are doable and I doubt you'd disagree with this.

However, you claimed
There are bigger problems on the avionics side
That baffled me as things such as structural limitation are equally if not more challenging than implementing advanced avionics to turn KF-21 into a true 5th gen fighter.

However, I believe It was all due to a simple misunderstanding. I was talking about turning KF-21 into a 5th gen stealth combat aircraft. You were talking about maximising KF-21's capability as a 4.5 multirole combat aircraft.

Edit : I will stop here too as It is indeed getting irrevelant to the thread's topic.
 

MADDOG

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TAI also exhibiting the MMU mock-up, unsurprisingly. Mock-up is unchanged.

FX2-wNGWQAItpO2.jpeg
 

MADDOG

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Huh... 18.70m with a 12.60m wingspan... How interesting. I think the Farnborough team measured the mock-up's length instead of the real thing which is expected to be as big as a blue whale :ROFLMAO:


Screen Shot 2022-07-17 at 14.39.47.png
 

MADDOG

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Watched the display of Hurkus. It was cool. But apart from that not much has been going on. TAI is relatively quiet, not much PR going on there. We haven't seen the TF-X sim yet, or anything interesting. So yeah... that's that.
 

MIT

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Looks like BAE systems got some inspiration from TF-X 😅
View attachment 46436 View attachment 46437
I believe that TAI will emulate the same Korean approach regarding its KF 21 fighter, so that KAI decided to design a new fighter derived from the current fighter to match the characteristics of the sixth generation in the third phase of the project called the KF xx.
So I think these designs will be suitable for a future tfx program as they appear to be derived from mmu design .
60494-1533cd9d4b9760dfabeb60fdc782aa01.jpg
60492-b260658a58c5c875d7d7b5f6e5cf64ff.jpg
60490-6ff29e770b3c97396904f5466e7fc626.jpg
 

MADDOG

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Fellas, can any of you take some screenshots of TAI's latest video on Twitter? I think I spotted the TF-X simulator. Unfortunately I won't be able to use my PC for a while. Cheers for now.
 

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