TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Boz]

Well if we're approaching it from angle of personal tastes and likings sure thing bud you've got every right for outrage

Not an outrage but a matter fact what countries like pakistan, algeria and so on has nothing to offer in terms of technology for 5 gen tech like TF-X.

however if you're approaching it from an economic/political angle, my guy you're not richer than the US who needed to share the f-35 program with multiple countries to lower the costs

It's not the same, also we offered at one time; years ago, also JSF program was not an open buffet for every country but a *selected* *few* who had something to *offer* and was *reliable* with such a critical project.

not do you have an as big alliances network that is organically integrated in your industry to ensure a long term cooperation and mutual benefit, sharing technology isn't charity, rather a necessary investment because if you're not willing, someone else might make that offer and it will cost you big time.

You should not comment on things you do not understand.

 

[Pilatino]

Well if we're approaching it from angle of personal tastes and likings sure thing bud you've got every right for outrage, however if you're approaching it from an economic/political angle, my guy you're not richer than the US who needed to share the f-35 program with multiple countries to lower the costs not do you have an as big alliances network that is organically integrated in your industry to ensure a long term cooperation and mutual benefit, sharing technology isn't charity, rather a necessary investment because if you're not willing, someone else might make that offer and it will cost you big time.

I was talking about strategic projects bruh. Assume that we give every detail of tfx to S. Arabia can they build it? Yes, I know we're not rich but this isn't about money I think some countries exploiting our good will against them.

 

[Chakib.Y]

Not an outrage but a matter fact what countries like pakistan, algeria and so on has nothing to offer in terms of technology for 5 gen tech like TF-X.

It's not the same, also we offered, also JSP program was not open buffet for every country but selected few who had something to offer and was reliable with such a critical project.


You should not comment on things you do not understand.

1-Armament isn't tied to technology and cash exclusively. Fact that the world is separated to two main camps with each sporting a distinct armament type should make it plenty clear.(more of a geopolitical card).


2-no one said it's on open buffet, quite the opposite, what I am saying is turkey has a vested interest in the proliferation of its technology creating it's own sphere of influence and alliances that is organically integrated and reliant on turkey and has a vested interest in turkeys stability. If Algeria for example or any other country gets offered a better deal then why should they commit to the alliances or cooperation with you exactly? Politics are governed by interests and the moment you've been outbid you're out.

3-if only you could see the irony here lol.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Those possible partners are right now hitting their head against the walls of their offices.
Now at best they can become a export destination and nothing else.

Now unfinished prototype has made such an impact And when they see painted version of whole assembled body sitting on the landing gears then real regrets will be experienced.

 

[Pilatino]

1-Armament isn't tied to technology and cash exclusively. Fact that the world is separated to two main camps with each sporting a distinct armament type should make it plenty clear.(more of a geopolitical card).


2-no one said it's on open buffet, quite the opposite, what I am saying is turkey has a vested interest in the proliferation of its technology creating it's own sphere of influence and alliances that is organically integrated and reliant on turkey and has a vested interest in turkeys stability. If Algeria for example or any other country gets offered a better deal then why should they commit to the alliances or cooperation with you exactly? Politics are governed by interests and the moment you've been outbid you're out.

3-if only you could see the irony here lol.

You got a point but which one of those 2 camps' leaders sharing their know how?

 

[Ripley]

We paid

Indonesia resumes payment for joint fighter development project with S. Korea | Yonhap News Agency

JAKARTA, Nov. 2 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia has resumed payment for its share of the cost for a ...

m-en.yna.co.kr

IIRC, there was a disagreement between Korea and Indonesia involving the export rights on domestically manufactured aircraft (or did it involve any planes manufactured) on KF21 rather than lagging payments. please feel free to correct and fill me up, it’s a bit hazy now.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Lets presume tech transfer could be transferred to 3rd nation, what is reasonable what is impossible? Because there is certainly an advantage to getting customers on board and making them part of the ecosystem.

You get nations like Morroco, Algeria, Libya, Qatar, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Indonesia, etc on board by the time you come to make a 6th gen fighter you will already have a willing and ready market for it.

 

[Chakib.Y]

You got a point but those which one of those 2 cams leaders sharing their know how?

I'll be talking about Algeria since it's the one I know best about.

-with the Germans we've got a bunch of joint ventures like hensoldt for electrics/optronics, with rhinemetall we've got local assumbly/ manufacturing project for fuch and boxer one the fuch 2 contract expires.

-with the Italians there's an Agusta Westland choppers manufacturing project including armed versions.

-with the French there's a safran joint venture for optronics. Our btr series were upgraded using them.

-with the Americans there's gas turbines project that already started exporting whole units (case of Iraq) and spares (case of Netherlands And I think Hungary) with full tech transfer down to the software, will offer full servicing packages. Another project with falcon Harris for high end military communication systems.
(Plant for Chinese drones manufacturing, dry docks for ships manufacturing built in coop with the Chinese and Portuguese etc...)
The list goes on but you've got an idea.

 

[Pilatino]

I'll be talking about Algeria since it's the one I know best about.

-with the Germans we've got a bunch of joint ventures like hensoldt for electrics/optronics, with rhinemetall we've got local assumbly/ manufacturing project for fuch and boxer one the fuch 2 contract expires.

-with the Italians there's an Agusta Westland choppers manufacturing project including armed versions.

-with the French there's a safaran joint venture for optronics. Our btr series were upgraded using them.

-with the Americans there's gas turbines project that already started exporting whole units (case of Iraq) and spares (case of Netherlands And I think Hungary) with full tech transfer down to the software, will offer full servicing packages. Another project with falcon Harris for high end military communication systems.
(Plant for Chinese drones manufacturing, dry docks for ships manufacturing built in coop with the Chinese and Portuguese etc...)
The list goes on but you've got an idea.

Great I'm happy to hear all of that cuz we love Algerians. If there's co-operation that's also means that you've got the needed infrastructure for it I guess. Anyways whatever we say that won't change the decision makers ideas they know much better than me I would like to cooperate with Algeria because we have deep history and good relationship but we hear a lot of tech sharing offers' news on media everyday especially for strategic ones like Koral etc. from the countries with no idea so that's why I'm getting mad. İt wasn't against you or your country to be clear.

 

[Boz]

1-Armament isn't tied to technology and cash exclusively. Fact that the world is separated to two main camps with each sporting a distinct armament type should make it plenty clear.(more of a geopolitical card).

Every country needs weapons, and this is one of the most critical weapons one can get, that already gives Turkey the 'influence and alliances' card. TF-X will be in standards that of a NATO country.

Fun.

2-no one said it's on open buffet, quite the opposite, what I am saying is turkey has a vested interest in the proliferation of its technology creating it's own sphere of influence and alliances that is organically integrated and reliant on turkey and has a vested interest in turkeys stability.

That was how you put it, as if the countries that joined the JSF where or are somehow akin to those of algeria for example, who maybe should and can join The TF-X program if the right 'offer' is offered.

Funny.

If Algeria for example or any other country gets offered a better deal then why should they commit to the alliances or cooperation with you exactly? Politics are governed by interests and the moment you've been outbid you're out.

Just like how they and you wanted and got our drones, you will commit because you need them, that's how you get tied up, you are in need, because you are incapable of making it yourself, or get it somewhere else with the same offer. Because we do not need you, you need us IF, that comes down to it. Know your place in the food chain.

Very funny.

3-if only you could see the irony here lol.

Increasingly funny.

 

[Pilatino]

Lets presume tech transfer could be transferred to 3rd nation, what is reasonable what is impossible? Because there is certainly an advantage to getting customers on board and making them part of the ecosystem.

You get nations like Morroco, Algeria, Libya, Qatar, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Indonesia, etc on board by the time you come to make a 6th gen fighter you will already have a willing and ready market for it.

Yes but not strategic ones like Koral, TF-X, Atak 2 etc please.

Every country needs weapons, and this is one of the most critical weapons one can get, that already gives Turkey the 'influence and alliances' card. TF-X will be in standards that of a NATO country. Fun.


That was how you put it, as if the the countries that joined the JSF where or are somehow akin to those of algeria for example, who maybe should and can join The TF-X program if the right 'offer' is offered. Funny.


Just like how they and you wanted and got our drones, you will commit because you need them, that's how you get tied up, you are in need, because you are incapable of making it yourself, or get it somewhere else with the same offer. Because we do not need you, you need us IF, that comes down to it. Now your place in the food chain. Very funny.


Increasingly funny.

Guys please calm down FCK weapons lol you're brothers

 

[Chakib.Y]

Great I'm happy to hear all of that cuz we love Algerians. If there's co-operation that's also means that you've got the needed infrastructure for it I guess. Anyways whatever we say that won't change the decision makers ideas they know much better than me I would like to cooperate with Algeria because we have deep history and good relationship but we hear a lot of tech sharing offers' news on media everyday especially for strategic ones like Koral etc. from the countries with no idea so that's why I'm getting mad. İt wasn't against you or your country to be clear.

Appreciate it mate but this is neither chest beating nor chauvinism from my side this is mere different angle take, you should feel happy more are willingly tying themselves to your industry and engineering that would keep them both long time costumers and willing allies. I do understand turkey's need for serving its own interests which is expected and very much the Normal, but that doesn't conflict with the technical cooperation with allies, rather the later is a drive for the first when done properly.

 

[Boz]

Every country needs weapons, and this is one of the most critical weapons one can get, that already gives Turkey the 'influence and alliances' card. TF-X will be in standards that of a NATO country. Fun.

That was how you put it, as if the countries that joined the JSF where or are somehow akin to those of algeria for example, who maybe should and can join The TF-X program if the right 'offer' is offered. Funny.

Just like how they and you wanted and got our drones, you will commit because you need them, that's how you get tied up, you are in need, because you are incapable of making it yourself, or get it somewhere else with the same offer. Because we do not need you, you need us IF, that comes down to it. Know your place in the food chain. Very funny.

Increasingly funny.

Guys please calm down FCK weapons lol you're brothers

My guy I've been so mellow since the 23th you have nooo idea

 

[Chakib.Y]

Every country needs weapons, and this is one of the most critical weapons one can get, that already gives Turkey the 'influence and alliances' card. TF-X will be in standards that of a NATO country. Fun.


That was how you put it, as if the the countries that joined the JSF where or are somehow akin to those of algeria for example, who maybe should and can join The TF-X program if the right 'offer' is offered. Funny.


Just like how they and you wanted and got our drones, you will commit because you need them, that's how you get tied up, you are in need, because you are incapable of making it yourself, or get it somewhere else with the same offer. Because we do not need you, you need us IF, that comes down to it. Now your place in the food chain. Very funny.


Increasingly funny.

1-I agree on the first part 100%, second part however, that would've been the case had turkey been the only weapons producer and technology offerer in the world, my whole point was made based on who can offer more.

2-Sure turkey makes top notch drones which our purchase was the biggest proof for that, however don't you think we can replace you like we replaced the UAE before you and not only that but went from neutrality to supporting turkey in Libya and opening our economy to Turkish capital and shutting it for them (and investing in return in Turkey, ie sonatrach's polyethylene factory) ? There's no food chain here my friend, just mutual interests and alhamdullillah your country isn't ran by hot headed chauvinists rn else you would've lost everything outside your borders because you're punching way out of your weight class (which is admirable and Impressive), and you need every ally you can get.

3-well at least we have shared grounds here lol.

 

[Rooxbar]

Projects of this magintude have ballooning costs when it comes to serial production; cooperation and sharing of production load and costs will be necessary, and this cooperation will be with close and friendly nations like Azerbaijan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh hopefully. People here who talk as if they are experts on the industrial base and human capital potential of these countries without being able to name a city in them, sound very much like the Greek chauvinists who have no idea about capabilities of Turkey and companies like TUSAŞ, TEİ, KALE or ASELSAN and their history of cooperation with the likes of General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, Rolls Royce, etc. and the wealth of experience from technicians brought up in numerous quality technical schools in the country which have an organic bond with our industry and the fact that these companies have been making industry grade fine parts and assembling the likes of f16s and f110 engines for decades. Just like they have no clue about Turkey's history and industrial base and capacities, you have no clue about Malaysia, Indonesia and Pakistan; educate yourself then you will not have childish claims that these 200 million strong nations have nothing to contribute in terms of production capacities or human capital. Stupid.

 

[Baryshx]

Will it be fruitful for us after all these efforts and hard work?

Money and some engineer support would be very productive for us.

 

[Boz]

1-I agree on the first part 100%, second part however, that would've been the case had turkey been the only weapons producer and technology offerer in the world, my whole point was made based on who can offer more.

I'm glad you understood. Very few countries make 5 gen fighter and sell and or are willing to sell them. Very few countries have something to offer at this level.

2-Sure turkey makes top notch drones which our purchase was the biggest proof for that, however don't you think we can replace you like we replaced the UAE before you and not only that but went from neutrality to supporting turkey in Libya and opening our economy to Turkish capital (and investing in return in Turkey, ie sonatrach's polyethylene factory) ? There's no food chain here my friend, just mutual interests and alhamdullillah your country isn't ran by hot headed chauvinists rn else you would've lost everything outside your borders because you're punching way out of your weight class (which is admirable and Impressive), and you need every ally you can get.

The drones was an example to make it clear, this is about our most strategic weapon, a 5th gen fighter. The trump card is with the maker not with 'allies' of the maker.

There is indeed a food chain, have been will always be. One should know it's, place, in the chain.

3-well at least we have shared grounds here lol.

Mirthful.

 

[Devence]

1-I agree on the first part 100%, second part however, that would've been the case had turkey been the only weapons producer and technology offerer in the world, my whole point was made based on who can offer more.

2-Sure turkey makes top notch drones which our purchase was the biggest proof for that, however don't you think we can replace you like we replaced the UAE before you and not only that but went from neutrality to supporting turkey in Libya and opening our economy to Turkish capital and shutting it for them (and investing in return in Turkey, ie sonatrach's polyethylene factory) ? There's no food chain here my friend, just mutual interests and alhamdullillah your country isn't ran by hot headed chauvinists rn else you would've lost everything outside your borders because you're punching way out of your weight class (which is admirable and Impressive), and you need every ally you can get.

3-well at least we have shared grounds here lol.

Obviously, project partners and technology transfers will become clear before the aircraft is under construction.There can be co-production in terms of reducing costs and accelerating production.However, no state gives the technology of the aircraft it has developed for the 5th generation.
Talking about technology transfer for a state that is not even a partner in the project is ridiculous.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Either way, even if some third countries join the TF-X program, at this stage it would be purely financial.

 

[Boz]

Either way, even if some third countries join the TF-X program, at this stage it would be purely financial.

Yep.