TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Turko]

I am very much against using eastern block technology and equipment. All our defence set up is geared for western tech. But having said that I think it would not hurt to discuss and leave doors open.
Chinese planes are still very much dependent on Russian engines. Their main point of reference is Saturn AI31 engines that they extensively use. Russian jet engine technology is ahead of the Chinese. So if there is going to be any discussions to be had , it has to be with the Russians.
I don’t think we will have any problem in making the TFX body and avionics. Especially with help of BAE Systems in the loop we will get this plane’s body built to a good standard. The engine is the problem And stumbling block at the moment. I have no confidence in TR Motor. There are two addresses for this engine ; Kale/RR and TEI.

There are over 10 SU57’s in prototype guise With at least 2 of them flying using the new izdeliye 30 engine. First serial production SU57, last year, fell off the sky a few days before it was delivered.
But since then another one has been delivered to the Russian airforce. At least 2 of these so called prototype planes have been tried in Syria under warfare conditions.
So these planes are not as “green” as some say they are!
This all means that there are grounds for carrying on “discussions”!

Today is the anniversary of the martyrdom of 36 soldiers in idlib.
The russians murdered 36 turkish soldiers a year ago today. I'm totally against corporate with them while their hands in blood of our martyrs.

The Chinese have already produced own engines for their fighters. İt has been said that J-20 aren't for sale but this kind of things aren't sold or buy in the market place.

 

[Jason]

Meanwhile!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364566474975764483

Please, read the whole (original) article.

The F-35 is a Ferrari, Brown told reporters last Wednesday. “You don’t drive your Ferrari to work every day, you only drive it on Sundays. This is our ‘high end’ [fighter], we want to make sure we don’t use it all for the low-end fight.”

The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

The U.S. Air Force’s chief of staff wants the service to develop an affordable, lightweight fighter to replace hundreds of aging F-16s and complement a small fleet of sophisticated F-35 stealth fighters. But an affordable, lightweight fighter is exactly what the F-35 was first conceived to be.

www.forbes.com

 

[Foulgrim]

Then you do not get what I am saying! You are thinking too simple!
Russians are the ones that want to sell them. It doesn’t hurt to hear them.
It also leaves doors open. Because they are not going to agree to our conditions 100%, the discussions mat be prolonged until we know where we stand with the west and USA!
Everything has a price. Even TOT! This need not be pure cash! Do not have presumptions. Where do I say that we will tell them we are not buying your planes but we are expecting TOT? Again please read my posts properly!

I can not be in the back of your mind and imagine what you mean by your comment! The fact that the Russians want to sell some weapons does not mean that NATO will not impose financial sanctions on such a purchase. Turkey has many "windows" of communication with Russia, if it wants to open another "window" it can do so. You place communication with Russia on its fighter jets as part of a geopolitical game to gain time for Turkey over the United States. But this is something completely different that has nothing to do with buying a weapons system but with a political game! Turkey could acquire know-how transfer for its own fighter in other ways as well. Let me remind you that Great Britain has returned to the TAI TF-X program and there is the example of know-how transfer between China and Turkey with the J-600T Yıldırım in the 90's. The transfer of know-how can be done with other agreements in my opinion.

 

[Ardabas34]

Even if we dont buy Russian jets, we should continue the talks just to show US how far we are willing to go at not obeying to their pressures. They should know that Turkey has more options.
Just like how Ismet pasha has said ''if a new world order gets set, Turkey will take its place in it''
They should know we arent Greece, we arent bound to Atlantic system or any other system from our bellies.

 

[Oublious]

Please, read the whole (original) article.

The F-35 is a Ferrari, Brown told reporters last Wednesday. “You don’t drive your Ferrari to work every day, you only drive it on Sundays. This is our ‘high end’ [fighter], we want to make sure we don’t use it all for the low-end fight.”

The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

The U.S. Air Force’s chief of staff wants the service to develop an affordable, lightweight fighter to replace hundreds of aging F-16s and complement a small fleet of sophisticated F-35 stealth fighters. But an affordable, lightweight fighter is exactly what the F-35 was first conceived to be.

www.forbes.com

Do you now how much money it will cost if you go use Ferrari as your workhorse? From tire to engine oil .

 

[CAN_TR]

FFS Russia is baiting Turkey they want to create more and more tensions between Turkey and NATO/USA, beside that i also think financing plays a huge role. After India pulled out from the Su-57 project it's not working as they want.
150 in total were planned now only for 76 ordered also statements like "With Su-35 we have one of the best aircrafts in the world no need to speed up Su-57" etc. from Russian officials does not sound as they have full trust in it. There is something fishy. If the Russian want to talk then about engine technology not about aircrafts.

Turkish Defence and Aviation Industries gained a lot of experience, TFX is not impossible anymore, nothing against assistance from foreign companies but this is a Independence War for our Aviation Industry and Military.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Today is the anniversary of the martyrdom of 36 soldiers in idlib.
The russians murdered 36 turkish soldiers a year ago today. I'm totally against corporate with them while their hands with blood of our martyrs.

The Chinese have already produced own engines for their fighters. İt has been said that J-20 aren't for sale but this kind of things aren't sold or buy in the market place.

It is true that the Russians have knowingly bombed our soldiers in Idlib. May they rest in peace!
But unfortunately you put these events and it’s effects to one side when it is for the greater good of the country.
Chinese have just started using indigenous engines only recently. Still at early stages.
China’s premiere fighter, the Chengdu J-20, has started flying with a local engine, the Shenyang WS-10 Taihang – early versions used Russian Saturn AL-31s. In November 2020, images emerged of J-20s powered with an updated version of the WS-10, the WS-10C.

The J-20’s ultimate powerplant, however, is the Xian Aero Engine WS-15 Emei. Estimates suggest that the WS-15’s maximum thrust will be 18.4t (180kN), potentially giving the twin-engined J-20 genuine “fifth generation” performance, including supercruise – the ability to travel at supersonic speeds without engaging the afterburners.
This is yet to come. So enginewise they are well behind still. But catching up.

 

[Jason]

Do you now how much money it will cost if you go use Ferrari as your workhorse? From tire to engine oil .

If you compare a Ferrari to the F35. The Ferrari is more expensive to maintain

 

[Oublious]

If you compare a Ferrari to the F35. The Ferrari is more expensive to maintain

No, in this case a F35. F35 is more on the ground then in the air. IT doesn't matter how good the fighter is with all that electronics. In the end it will cost the country to much. I think US Airforce will not buymore then 50% what they wanted to purchase. The will focus in 6 gen fighter, this will be a disaster project.

 

[Era_shield]

Please, read the whole (original) article.

The F-35 is a Ferrari, Brown told reporters last Wednesday. “You don’t drive your Ferrari to work every day, you only drive it on Sundays. This is our ‘high end’ [fighter], we want to make sure we don’t use it all for the low-end fight.”

The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

The U.S. Air Force’s chief of staff wants the service to develop an affordable, lightweight fighter to replace hundreds of aging F-16s and complement a small fleet of sophisticated F-35 stealth fighters. But an affordable, lightweight fighter is exactly what the F-35 was first conceived to be.

www.forbes.com

Reality is the complete opposite - the F-35 was supposed to be the "lo" in the US's hi-lo fighter fleet. I'm not even gonna go into how braindead it is to think of what's supposed to be the most numerous fighter in the inventory as a "ferrari" that you don't use too often.

 

[what]

People get stuck on the Ferrari comparison, doesnt mean its bad. Its just expensive to use.

Our TF-X might be exactly what the Americans are now discussing but only in addition to the Ferraris.

 

[Ravenman]

We should cooperate with Japan (Kawasaki Aircraft Industries) or Brazil (Embraer) to produce fighter jets.

 

[Ryder]

F35 is going to become more like a elite plane like the F22 and use it for specialised roles and not constantly.

 

[Jason]

No, in this case a F35. F35 is more on the ground then in the air. IT doesn't matter how good the fighter is with all that electronics. In the end it will cost the country to much. I think US Airforce will not buymore then 50% what they wanted to purchase. The will focus in 6 gen fighter, this will be a disaster project.

Yes, you're right I also see a Ferrari on the road every day xD US wants fighters like the KFX. Low cost, more stealth than a 4th gen but with 4th and 5th generation technology imo.

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

There isn't any operational SU-57, so what would you say about chinese J-20? The Chinese have always been eager to share technology of SAM. With ToT long range chinese stealth fighter seems not too bad, however we will bid farewell to NATO after j20.

I love the J-20 and would say that it is a great option. Unfortunately China is not willing to sell it to anyone. The FC-31 Is their export stealth jet.

 

[CAN_TR]

Incredible how much they dumped on the F-35 project, it still don't get for what all that money was wasted, we are talking about life cycle cost of more than 1 TRILLION USD.

Too me it looks like the US didn't learned anything from the F-22 programm and even topped it with the F-35. A aircraft with limited combat range and max. speed of mach 1.6 under ideal conditions without supercruise capability, sure it has great avionics, low RCS but that still doesn't justify this epic fail.

 

[Ryder]

Incredible how much they dumped on the F-35 project, it still don't get for what all that money was wasted, we are talking about life cycle cost of more than 1 TRILLION USD.

Too me it looks like the US didn't learned anything from the F-22 programm and even topped it with the F-35 program. A aircraft with limited combat range and max. speed of mach 1.6 under ideal conditions without supercruise capability, sure it has great avionics, low RCS but that still doesn't justify this epic fail.

The American military industrial complex is huge to be honest whatever money they pour into is a drop in the pond.

If Turkiye done the same thing it would be scandals, turmoils and chaos if such money got spent on a failed project.

In the long term if a project fails to the Americans its a template for the future to do better but also gives contractors and politicians still get their cash bonuses.

 

[Zafer]

Altay project ?
the loan of the Military Factories ?
Expulsion from F35 Project for S400 ?
After the expusion , lobbying for the f35 consorsium again ?

Trust me we have HUGE scandals on our hands. We just dont have the constitutional system or free media for revealing these scandals.

There is nothing scandalous about these.
Power struggle is not a smooth ride for anyone.

 

[Ryder]

Altay project ?
the loan of the Military Factories ?
Expulsion from F35 Project for S400 ?
After the expusion , lobbying for the f35 consorsium again ?

Trust me we have HUGE scandals on our hands. We just dont have the constitutional system or free media for revealing these scandals.

Usa's projects are much bigger on scale than Turkey's.

If Turkey put 1 trillion it would make a much bigger problem in the country itself compared to the USA.

Usa has an expediture of 700 billion put all the countries together they wont even get close to USA's expenditure while in the future their expenditure wont be coming down so 1 trillion is going to be a drop in the pond while Turkey cant afford to lose such money.

 

[Blackeyes90]

Usa's projects are much bigger on scale than Turkey's.

If Turkey put 1 trillion it would make a much bigger problem in the country itself compared to the USA.

Usa has an expediture of 700 billion put all the countries together they wont even get close to USA's expenditure while in the future their expenditure wont be coming down so 1 trillion is going to be a drop in the pond while Turkey cant afford to lose such money.

Well of course its bigger. Because USA is bigger than Turkey economicly. I just pointed out that we do have serious problems on our hands.