TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[MADDOG]

One thing I on the GTU-0 noticed was the lack of an air data boom. I'd guess it's for the upcoming ceremony. We'll see it with a boom before its first flight.

You'll see a boom before the flight

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1639736697352069121

 

[Windchime]

The YF-22 (1990) and F-22 (1997) comparisons seem reasonable to me. Except greatly accelerated of course. I'd bet if the cold war persisted the F-22 would have made its first flight much sooner.

A more fitting example will be Rafale A and Rafale C. Like I've said on another reply YF-22 and F-22 were very different aircrafts, hence the 7 years of gap between them. The relationship between YF-22 and F-22 were more like the relationship between BAe EAP and Eurofighter Typhoon.

 

[Windchime]

Guess there have been lots of thing going on while I was away. I came after hearing the news about Altay, and what a surprise, there's more! Next up is to see these aircrafts fly.

It seems like they are planning to fly the MMU with Hürjet, but I really hope that they'll take a step further and make ANKA-3 and Kızılelma also fly together. Think about it, 4 of those planes all flying together in a wedge formation. Would be quite a scene I'd say.

 

[moz68k]

A more fitting example will be Rafale A and Rafale C. Like I've said on another reply YF-22 and F-22 were very different aircrafts, hence the 7 years of gap between them. The relationship between YF-22 and F-22 were more like the relationship between BAe EAP and Eurofighter Typhoon.

That's an even better suggestion! Even down to the temporary US-sourced engine.

 

[Boz]

w/Gökdoğan.

 

[MADDOG]

View attachment 55412
w/Gökdoğan.

She is a beautiful bird

 

[moz68k]

Excellent video with a different take on what might differentiate 6th gen from 5th gen:

TLDW: Streamlined "agile" development and manufacturing, increased automation during design and manufacture, modular hardware and software architectures, incremental improvements to an evolving platforms with more variation, MUM-T and "attritable" wingmen. There's also a discussion on how BAE Systems is using a huge 3D printer and taking inspiration from automotive industry manufacturing practices. All these will lead to more platforms both numerically and from a diversity perspective—a common pitfall of extant 4th and 5th gen platforms developed using the classic waterfall model.

With these points in mind, honestly, the TF-X project really shares a lot of these attributes. I'm not saying it's sixth gen, obviously, but the development techniques used are, IMHO, pioneering. There was definitely some BAE-TAI cross pollination, and I even think the Brits will be taking notes on how our project evolves.

 

[Huelague]

Excellent video with a different take on what might differentiate 6th gen from 5th gen:

TLDW: Streamlined "agile" development and manufacturing, increased automation during design and manufacture, modular hardware and software architectures, incremental improvements to an evolving platforms with more variation, MUM-T and "attritable" wingmen. There's also a discussion on how BAE Systems is using a huge 3D printer and taking inspiration from automotive industry manufacturing practices. All these will lead to more platforms both numerically and from a diversity perspective—a common pitfall of extant 4th and 5th gen platforms developed using the classic waterfall model.

With these points in mind, honestly, the TF-X project really shares a lot of these attributes. I'm not saying it's sixth gen, obviously, but the development techniques used are, IMHO, pioneering. There was definitely some BAE-TAI cross pollination, and I even think the Brits will be taking notes on how our project evolves.

I guess 6. generation fighter jets will operate in much higher altitude.

 

[TheInsider]

Yeah TAI uses 3D printers when possible and is committed to digital twin practices from the get-go. IMHO this opened doors for a possible distant future 6th gen fighter.

 

[boredaf]

Yeah TAI uses 3D printers when possible

They bought one of the biggest 3D printers in the world, right? Or am I confusing it with something else?

 

[Bürküt]

They bought one of the biggest 3D printers in the world, right? Or am I confusing it with something else?

You are right. Tai bought metal electron beam 3D printer from Sciaky to produce titanium parts of MMU. (like bulkhead)

 

[Radonsider]

Excellent video with a different take on what might differentiate 6th gen from 5th gen:

TLDW: Streamlined "agile" development and manufacturing, increased automation during design and manufacture, modular hardware and software architectures, incremental improvements to an evolving platforms with more variation, MUM-T and "attritable" wingmen. There's also a discussion on how BAE Systems is using a huge 3D printer and taking inspiration from automotive industry manufacturing practices. All these will lead to more platforms both numerically and from a diversity perspective—a common pitfall of extant 4th and 5th gen platforms developed using the classic waterfall model.

With these points in mind, honestly, the TF-X project really shares a lot of these attributes. I'm not saying it's sixth gen, obviously, but the development techniques used are, IMHO, pioneering. There was definitely some BAE-TAI cross pollination, and I even think the Brits will be taking notes on how our project evolves.

Oh, another fellow M7* follower

We could see a Turkish 6th gen in the future, maybe. But for that point I guess we would need to wait for our sensor tech, rather than aeronautics

 

[dBSPL]

Please don't misunderstand, but I find these generation discussions really strange. There are significant differences and advances between the 4th and 5th generation, but when it comes to the transition to the 6th generation, there are not so clear lines. The leading argument for the 6th generation is engine technologies, but won't these engines be integrated into the fifth generation jets when they are ready? Coating technologies, sensor fusion, advanced displaying systes and augmented reality decision support systems, you name it... What is referred to as 6th generation actually means something like 5.5/5++. Technically, almost all of the systems that will be included in these aircraft can be integrated with the 5th generation jets, unless someone is willing to go to the cost of creating a highly maneuverable air superiority jet with 9G and without any vertical stabilizers. A 6th generation fighter jet for Europe is probably another 15 years away, for it to really pay off. It remains to be seen what the US will come up with with NGAD, but in any case this jet will be an extraordinarily expensive aircraft, even for the US. Also I still have a very low expectation that we will see an air superiority jet with vertical stabilizers completely removed from the tail. Of course, future combat aviation is gradually moving from close engagement capabilities to electronic capabilities and engagement over very long distances, which is another aspect of the issue.

The MMU is essentially a platform that aims to go far beyond most traditional 5th generation conceptualizations of the early 2000s. But here I think we have a big challenge ahead of us in terms of the engine. actually not 1 but two: The first is to reach the variable cycle engine for next generation military aircrafts within 15 years. The second is to reach the maturity to use directed-energy weapons at supersonic speeds and against highly maneuverable aircraft/ammunitions.

To summarize other capability criteria to describing 6th gen:
* AI, data fusion, cyber warfare, D2D and battlefield command, control and communications (C3) capabilities
* Optionally manned with the same airframe, onboard-AI controlled missions.
* Enhanced human-systems integration, with virtual cockpits presented via helmet-mounted displays, AI-enhanced battlefield awareness.
* Advanced stealth airframes and avionics (this is the most critical issue, NGAD will be quite decisive in that respect)
* Joint misson capability with uncrewed Collaborative Combat Aircrafts
* Increased-range stand-off and BVR weapons
etc.

All of these are included in the MMU roadmap already. And if we keep everything on schedule, we will probably have the first generation of indigenous engines within 15 years. Again, when the GCAP or FCAS will come out of the first block production line, probably MMU will have completed its fourth or fifth block update, and It will be a platform that meets many of the above criteria. But above all, we are now advancing a fighter jet program without a partner. This is accompanied by massive investments in infrastructure and the hirings that now number in the thousands annually. What makes the MMU valuable is that, unlike previous attempts to build a fighter jet that were abandoned by some promising countries before, this is an industrial breakthrough far beyond a building just a aircraft. In short, in those years, the next step will probably have already been started.

 

[Zafer]

We are creating an aviation industry that can make a cutting edge fighter jet complete with its every aspect. It is only natural that we can update our planes as we go. TFX in particular is multirole and it is big enough to accommodate many upgrades down the road. Once you make its engine powerful enough it will support the changing power requirements of the plane in its future iterations, which is what we are doing.

 

[Huelague]

Is TFX able to detect underwater vehicles?

 

[Oublious]

Is TFX able to detect underwater vehicles?

No radar can look underwater...

 

[Huelague]

No radar can look underwater...

I am not talking about a radar. The video @Nutuk provide, they said, TFX is able to.

 

[Afif]

@dBSPL excellent post. Mostly, i agree with you assessment. 6th gen is not as big leap as 5th gen platforms were from 4th gen.

And also i think Tempset and FCAS should be consider as 5.5 platforms.

And it should be possible for MMU to match Tempset and FCAS capabilites with similar avionics, sensors and weapon package upgrade.

However, if MMU's design is not significantly enhanced in later blocks, I doubt with current shape MMU can physically perform as good as Tempset and FCAS.

Even though you are doubting if there would any 'true' 6th gen platform with a complete new design, ( without vertical stabilizers ) I would insist we will see them in the near future.

Because in my opinion, unlike everybody else, these two countries ( US and PRC has the financial means and the industrial capability to pull off something completely unprecedented ( specially United States, when F-22 and F-23 came out it was almost beyond anybody's imagination )

Although NGAD and FA-XX program are shrouded with secrecy for now, Chinese are already gave multiple clues how their 6th gen platform might look like.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3208873/china-offers-further-clues-about-plans-sixth-generation-fighter-planes&ved=2ahUKEwjsxtCwzvz9AhX8T2wGHesXB2cQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2O_Kgi4TcEyqNtsyvuY2qK

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/11/11/china-rival-sixth-gen-fighter-concept/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjsxtCwzvz9AhX8T2wGHesXB2cQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0VgXJ56FJ4wuwz802Ry0vl

I would expect similar design for NGAD. ( and probably for FA-XX too )

Yes it would be very expensive, and I think that is why USAF initially planning to buy only 200 of them to replace raptors.

 

[Radonsider]

@dBSPL excellent post. Mostly, i agree with you assessment. 6th gen is not as big leap as 5th gen platforms were from 4th gen.

And also i think Tempset and FCAS should be consider as 5.5 platforms.

And it should be possible for MMU to match Tempset and FCAS capabilites with similar avionics, sensors and weapon package upgrade.

However, if MMU's design is not significantly enhanced in later blocks, I doubt with current shape MMU can physically perform as good as Tempset and FCAS.

Even though you are doubting if there would any 'true' 6th gen platform with a complete new design, ( without vertical stabilizers ) I would insist we will see them in the near future.

Although NGAD and FA-XX program are shrouded with secrecy for now, Chinese are already gave multiple clues how their 6th gen platform might look like.
View attachment 55466
View attachment 55467

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3208873/china-offers-further-clues-about-plans-sixth-generation-fighter-planes&ved=2ahUKEwjsxtCwzvz9AhX8T2wGHesXB2cQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2O_Kgi4TcEyqNtsyvuY2qK

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/11/11/china-rival-sixth-gen-fighter-concept/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjsxtCwzvz9AhX8T2wGHesXB2cQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0VgXJ56FJ4wuwz802Ry0vl

I would expect similar design for NGAD. ( and probably for FA-XX too )

Yes it would be very expensive, and I think that is why USAF initially planning to buy only 200 of them to replace raptors.

Ngl, that Chinese looks like a MMU without the tail section