TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Huelague]

Comparison by @buchmaru

View attachment 55562

Between F-22 and TF-X.

 

[godel44]

The NGAD-F-35 mix is exactly the case for the Next gen-legacy force compositon me and godel44 are talking about. NGAD will be fundamentally different from the F-35 and hence it is not suited to say it is a hi-lo mix.

There was also a separate discussion of a 6th gen hi-lo mix in terms of the digital century, which at current situation seems like an approach to design UAVs for the MUM-T between the NGAD manned fighter and wingman drones. In that sense the 6th gen systems of sytems approach will be a next gen-legacy mix coupled with hi-lo mix, in which the "lo" will be attritable drones.

Important part here is "attritable", which I don't think the both the Kızılelma and ANKA-3 are. With Turkish experience in designing drones I don't think it will be a difficult matter, though. Future force mix for large air forces might even be hi-mid-lo, where the "mid" part is fulfilled by capable wingman drones like KE whereas lo by attritable, cheaper and more numerous drones. Anyways, all this meaning a lot of responsibilities for the MMU in the future.

I read somewhere that as the future force structure, the US is thinking about having a number (500?) of NGADs, same number of F-35s, and then KE-style jet drones about twice the total number of manned jets. But the costs they were estimating for the NGAD apiece were in the hundreds of millions of dollars, which is absolutely bunkers. Even the F-35 is pushing it with its price. I think with NGAD the US is financially going to a place where many of its allies can't follow. If we were still on the F-35 bandwagon, we would probably still be getting off at NGAD.

Not knowing the technical details it's hard to guess if these prices are justified but this does resemble a common mode of failure in human organizations. Organizations get larger and larger, making the product produced more and more complicated and over-engineered, like what arguably happened towards the end with F-35. Whether it's the suppliers who want to sell more or companies and politicians who want the prestige of having produced the absolute best, something pushes them on far past the point where diminishing returns set in.

If Turkey ever gets to that level, I like to think that due to the Turkish mentality being more grounded in reality and shortcut-oriented, it will prove less liable to over-engineering. We might make a two-seater version of TF-X for MUM-T and call it a day.

 

[Afif]

Not knowing the technical details it's hard to guess if these prices are justified but this does resemble a common mode of failure in human organizations. Organizations get larger and larger, making the product produced more and more complicated and over-engineered, like what arguably happened towards the end with F-35.

Hehe, whoever ultimately manufacture those NGAD and sell it to USAF with hundreds of millions $ price tag on each will tell, you are only jealous cause you can’t make one.
( just kidding )

If Turkey ever gets to that level, I like to think that due to the Turkish mentality being more grounded in reality and shortcut-oriented, it will prove less liable to over-engineering. We might make a two-seater version of TF-X for MUM-T and call it a day.

Maybe, ( just a thought For now ) if Turkey can impress Some financially Capable 'potential partners' with TFX export at first, ( whose core geopolitical interest should also be more or less aligned with Turkey’s broader strategic goals ) then they could participate in a mega project similar to NGAD and take on its huge financial responsibility. In this way I think, it would have more realistic framework to become successfully realise.

And today we do have a similar example to such project with Tempset program. ( Specially with Japan's participation in the program even though they don’t share the exact and immediate security interest that of Europe.)
Obviously, in Turkey’s case if it would ever happens, such partnership would be more of a financial one rather than a technological one.


Note, of course for now this is just a far fetched idea. A lot could be different in next 15/20 years. Economy, geopolitics or the security dynamics, etc. Right now we could not seriously predict who can be what in the long run.

 

[Enderun]

With the hope of your friends, with the National Combat Aircraft Engines in front of you.

 

[MADDOG]

"We signed a protocol with İzmir Institute of Technology Dear Prof. Dr. Yusuf Baran that will enable the Dynamic Testing and Modeling Laboratory to become operational."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1641726353811685376

 

[neosinan]

Here is another article covering TFX in Western media, we need me articles like this. Tai needs to improve their reach to both social media and classic media.

Next-gen fighter TF-X, stealth drone Anka-3 unveiled by Turkey

Turkey has recently showcased its homegrown next-gen fighter jet, the TF-X, as well as, a new stealth drone and supersonic trainer jet.

interestingengineering.com

 

[Huelague]

„Despite this, the TF-X is expected to meet standard performance benchmarks for modern fighter jets, including a maximum speed pegged between Mach 1.8 and Mach 2.2, a service ceiling of 55,000 feet (16,764 meters), a range of 700 miles (1,127 km), and supersonic cruising capability without the use of afterburners“

 

[Enderun]

- Very important information from İsmail Demir, President of Defense Industries -

Radar invisibility is an important parameter in ANKA III. jet engine. It flies close to the speed of sound or may exceed the speed of sound.'

The unit price of the GÖKDOĞAN Air Air Missile is over 1 million dollars. Tests of the Gökdoğan and Bozdoğan air-to-air missiles continue. TÜBİTAK S A G E works.

UAV-230 Supersonic Missile used in inventory (Range Official Description 140 km) actually more.

The first test of our UAV-230 rocket was made a few months ago. It has been used in inventory in some ways, feedback has been received.
It was then successfully tested again in the past few days.'

(MMU) We say get ready for sweet surprises.

(MMU) You'll see in a few weeks what he's actually up to.

(HÜRJET) We will turn it into an aircraft that carries ammunition and can provide close air support. We ordered mass production.

We want HÜRJET to be used on the Anatolian ship.

We thought of the Anatolian Amphibious Assault Ship to fulfill some of the aircraft carrier's functions.
TB3 was designed to take off from Anatolia with some changes.'

HÜRJET will be Turkey's first jet-powered and manned combat aircraft. As a jet trainer, he is capable of exceeding the speed of sound.”

 

[Huelague]

„Despite this, the TF-X is expected to meet standard performance benchmarks for modern fighter jets, including a maximum speed pegged between Mach 1.8 and Mach 2.2, a service ceiling of 55,000 feet (16,764 meters), a range of 700 miles (1,127 km), and supersonic cruising capability without the use of afterburners“

Is that Mach 2.2 true?

 

[Heartbang]

I think it has become clear that the Hurjet, MMU and ANKA-3 ceremonies will be held on the same day. On the day when the state dignitaries will attend, we will watch a hangar rollout ceramony of MMU, and the flight of other two platforms.

Y'know, TFX looked very ready to fly. They could make a surprise with that one.

 

[MADDOG]

Y'know, TFX looked very ready to fly. They could make a surprise with that one.

Nah she isn't ready. TF-X still has some ground time. Watching ANKA-3 and Hürjet fly should be exhilarating regardless.

 

[dBSPL]

Y'know, TFX looked very ready to fly. They could make a surprise with that one.

Even if TAI meets its 2023 Q4 target, it will probably be a very unprecedented aerospace industry achievement. Of course, these norms are peacetime assumptions. The military industry shows its true colors when circumstances move away from keeping the peace. However, if we assume that we have not reached that stage yet, I think there is still a way to go until the first flight of the MMU.

 

[Afif]

I think it has become clear that the Hurjet, MMU and ANKA-3 ceremonies will be held on the same day. On the day when the state dignitaries will attend, we will watch a hangar rollout ceramony of MMU, and the flight of other two platforms.

I am wondering if we will see any high level foreign deligations attending the ceremony.

 

[dBSPL]

I am wondering if we will see any high level foreign deligations attending the ceremony.

IMHO, the presence of a foreign delegation at the ceremony, which will include the presentation of purely indigenous and military projects, would certainly indicate that the nations in question have moved from the potential customer stage to active contract negotiations or are at a very advanced stage. There may be a delegation from NATO, but other than that, I would consider whoever attends as first customers.

 

[Baryshx]

I think it has become clear that the Hurjet, MMU and ANKA-3 ceremonies will be held on the same day. On the day when the state dignitaries will attend, we will watch a hangar rollout ceramony of MMU, and the flight of other two platforms.

There's not much talk about Atak 2.

 

[Zafer]

Even if TAI meets its 2023 Q4 target, it will probably be a very unprecedented aerospace industry achievement. Of course, these norms are peacetime assumptions. The military industry shows its true colors when circumstances move away from keeping the peace. However, if we assume that we have not reached that stage yet, I think there is still a way to go until the first flight of the MMU.

"Incompetent" test pilots who can't take their feet off the gas pedal can make the impossible happen during one of those many ground tests..

 

[Heartbang]

"Incompetent" test pilots who can't take their feet off the gas pedal can make the impossible happen during one of those many ground tests..

Oh yea. Happened to the YF-16, no less.

 

[MADDOG]

TAI TF-X

 

[Cabatli_TR]

 

[Boz]