TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Huelague]

There will also be a smaller one.

A smaller one of what?

 

[Baris]

Temel Kotil: KAAN doesn't have a cannon because there is no reason for it to have a cannon, nobody enters cannon range

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1661850395226914818

 

[Heartbang]

Temel Kotil: KAAN doesn't have a cannon because there is no reason for it to have a cannon, nobody enters cannon range

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1661850395226914818

Utterly confused. We were talking about 30 mm cannons a short while ago, now this. Not to mention its a bad call.

What happened?

 

[Afif]

Utterly confused. We were talking about 30 mm cannons a short while ago, now this. Not to mention its a bad call.

What happened?

He is totally right, no need for cannon.

 

[dBSPL]

The configuration of the aircraft is determined by the Turkish Air Force, not TAI. I don't want to write too long, maybe not in the first block, but it is not possible that there is no cannon on the aircraft. The characteristics of the cannon, its calibre, ammunition capacity are the subject that TAI can work on, but it cannot say that 'it is not necessary' to remove something that the force wants.

 

[Zafer]

Utterly confused. We were talking about 30 mm cannons a short while ago, now this. Not to mention its a bad call.

What happened?

We should have spoken louder to be heard but again I had already left that business to who knows better.

 

[UkroTurk]

He is totally right, no need for cannon.

İnstead of cannon additional 4 more Stinger equal SUNGUR missiles will be more efficient.

 

[Heartbang]

He is totally right, no need for cannon.

On the contrary, proliferation of stealth will cause the a2a fights to happen in closer ranges, bringing dogfights in vogue again.

 

[begturan]

İnstead of cannon additional 4 more Stinger equal SUNGUR missiles will be more efficient.

With quad missile launcher the SADAK 4T would be very effective.

 

[dBSPL]

On the contrary, proliferation of stealth will cause the a2a fights to happen in closer ranges, bringing dogfights in vogue again.

Theoretically, you have a chance to deflect a missile locked on your aircraft, more or less with ACM and countermeasure systems. However, if you have an air superiority/fighter on your tail less than 3 km away, and if you give it the proper angle of fire for less than a second, you have no chance of deflecting these projectiles. The average muzzle velocity of similar cannons are 0.02 to 0.01 seconds. A 20/30mm projectile could easily penetrate the aircraft's armour. If it's a lucky shot, it can even shot down aircraft.

KAAN will be the main combat aircraft of the Turkish Air Force. In respect of , Its full compatibility with a wide range of combat scenarios (hundreds of possibilities can be calculated) and above all, its air combat manoeuvring capabilities will be the most important asset in the hands of the Turkish Air Force. It is very fanciful to claim that close air engagement will disappear completely in the near future. The cannons carried by interceptors are the pilots' greatest assurance.

By the way, I do not believe that Kotil said such a thing. He can expressed his own interpretation, but he cannot make such a comment about the configuration of KAAN. If someone shares exactly what he said with a video, not on twitter accounts, we can comment on it better.

 

[Zafer]

Theoretically, you have a chance to deflect a missile locked on your aircraft, more or less with ACM and countermeasure systems. However, if you have an air superiority/fighter on your tail less than 3 km away, and if you give it the proper angle of fire for less than a second, you have no chance of deflecting these projectiles. The average muzzle velocity of similar cannons are 0.02 to 0.01 seconds. A 20/30mm projectile could easily penetrate the aircraft's armour. If it's a lucky shot, it can even shot down aircraft.

KAAN will be the main combat aircraft of the Turkish Air Force. In respect of , Its full compatibility with a wide range of combat scenarios (hundreds of possibilities can be calculated) and above all, its air combat manoeuvring capabilities will be the most important asset in the hands of the Turkish Air Force. It is very fanciful to claim that close air engagement will disappear completely in the near future. The cannons carried by interceptors are the pilots' greatest assurance.

By the way, I do not believe that Kotil said such a thing. He can expressed his own interpretation, but he cannot make such a comment about the configuration of KAAN. If someone shares exactly what he said with a video, not on twitter accounts, we can comment on it better.,

In one of the videos he said so. Like, "KAAN won't have a cannon because he doesn't need one". I wouldn't worry if it turns out that he needs one he will don one very quickly.

 

[Ripley]

I tried earlier to explain why Kaan must have a gun on a basic principle that it was still a fighter

If they revised the design to strip the gun off, well, I don’t know.
A gun is the last resort for a fighter pilot and it’s up close and personal.

I remember a documentary where many veteran Israeli pilots of Arab - Israeli conflicts mention how things got out of hand quickly when their python AA missiles failed occasionally and they suddenly found themselves in a dogfight to death with their opponents. And all they got left was the gun and their skills as fighter pilots.

Also let’s remember how the USAF envisioned the Cold War.
According to contemporary doctrine, high altitude Soviet bombers would penetrate Western air space and to counter them all they needed was the newly developed AA missiles. In fact, they bet so heavily on them that they believed there was no room for guns anymore in that new era where they would be engaging their opponent on such long ranges thanks to their AAs.
And we all know how it went, like Hasanrize said, when they had to engage MIGs with the deadly 23mm guns.

Short version; as long as there is man in the cockpit, things might get out of hand and you need to protect him/her with a last resort weapon.
Hope they didn’t remove the gun.

Sorry, this turned out to be a long piece.

And @Windchime, later on, unrelated to my post, put up more modern tactical concerns about the dogfight, saying “ACM, AOA (and to an extent instantaneous turn rate) based point and shoot is far more important than traditional turn rate based dog fighting.”

Bringing up examples from half a century ago doesn't help at all. Firstly there's much more context behind the failure of missile-centric doctrine in Vietnam. Secondly, since Desert Storm not a single air-to-air engagement was done with guns, bar the sole example of an A-10 shooting down Iraqi helo.

Moreover in modern ACM, AOA (and to an extent instantaneous turn rate) based point and shoot is far more important than traditional turn rate based dog fighting.

For me it was educational I must admit.

But somehow I can’t get it out of my head this unforeseen nightmare of a scenario where a KAAN pilot would be out of options when he/she ran out of missiles or malfunction of those and forced into a dogfight by an agile 1/2 or 1 generation older pure fighter!

I can not even dream a KAAN pilot, or any 5th gen pilot for that matter, would like to get into a close quarter dogfight before he would exhaust his state of the art options of taking an opponent down from far far away.

But I said it earlier. The gun is up close and personal and it is a last ditch effort and it should be there to assure the pilot that a fighter pilot never gives up.

 

[boredaf]

If your 5th generation jet that has A2A missiles with ranges from 10s of kms to 100s of kms comes within "dogfighting" range of an enemy aircraft someone must've really, really fucked up. And any pilot who goes into that range *after* using all of their missiles has to be suicidal. These are jets that are worth up to 100 million, there is absolutely no need to put them in any situation that would require them to engage the enemy that close.

I'd rather they use the payload a cannon and its ammunition would take for something more useful.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Chill, my friends. We'll have Kızılelmas to sic on dogfighting targets. Think of the battleground on a more holistic level.

 

[Ripley]

If your 5th generation jet that has A2A missiles with ranges from 10s of kms to 100s of kms comes within "dogfighting" range of an enemy aircraft someone must've really, really fucked up. And any pilot who goes into that range *after* using all of their missiles has to be suicidal. These are jets that are worth up to 100 million, there is absolutely no need to put them in any situation that would require them to engage the enemy that close.

I'd rather they use the payload a cannon and its ammunition would take for something more useful.

Well, my 5th gen preferably will dictate the rules and distance of the engagement and yes my pilot would be an idiot engaging in a close quarter fight with his opponents before exhausting his bvr and other A2A engagement options and he should be grounded and then taken off combat missions, if he survives.
So, nowhere did I say that a 5th gen pilot should rush to a dogfight at all times.

Actually, I pointed out this myself in my post

I can not even dream a KAAN pilot, or any 5th gen pilot for that matter, would like to get into a close quarter dogfight before he would exhaust his state of the art options of taking an opponent down from far far away.

I believe you missed the picture here.
We always believe that 5th gen fighters will dictate the air combat. And why not? That’s the whole idea behind those beasts. That’s what they are defined and designed for.

My supposition totally based on a dire situation where KAAN will not be able to set the game rules and accordingly will be forced to play its opponent’s game.

 

[Ravager]

Let me put some old wisdom here ... Everything that could go wrong definetely would go fubar someday . And brothers ..... Better to have things that thou don't need rather than needing it and yet you don't have it ....


Prepare for a rainy days fellas ...

 

[fushkee]

Every news and every reports are great. But first of all we should solve the engine problem!I think 3 type of engines will solve our platform needs. TF-10000, TF-20000 and TF-35000

 

[UcanTost]

A fighter without a cannon is like a bird without wings, a ship without a port, a car without a wheel.

it needs to have a cannon its a fighter and stealth as well what do you mean no cannon and stop giving me TSK didnt ask for it excuse

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Defense Industry Vice President Serdar Demirel:

We will have good news on the joint production of the KAAN aircraft.



Source: https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/ekonomi/tu...ma-sanayisindeki-isbirligi-guclenecek/2907097

 

[what]

A fighter without a cannon is like a bird without wings, a ship without a port, a car without a wheel, a female without a penis.

it needs to have a cannon its a fighter and stealth as well what do you mean no cannon and stop giving me TSK didnt ask for it excuse

Not sure if that was on purpose.