TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[begturan]

Not at all, it is the junior one who is always tallest in the family.

okay i agree

KAAN is neither long nor small compare to her competitors. She is just how she must be.

i guess that Tusas engineers designed it bigger for loading more internal ammunutions. internal weapon capacity is biggest problem of 5 th gen fighter jets.

 

[Huelague]

 

[Strong AI]

During the interview at NTV, earlier today, Ismail Demir gave some information regarding the first flight of KAAN.
He said, that they want to mature the systems in KAAN first, and then fly the jet. Otherwise it would be a waste, if they integrated those systems in KAAN, before they are matured, just to be able to fly the jet. This would mean, that they had to throw away those systems and develope them new after the first flight (something like that). Also he repeated the target of first flight as 2024 (subject to change).

Could this Information be interpreted as, that maybe there was a little beef between SSB and TAI, like TAI wanted to fly KAAN as soon as possible, but SSB said, that this would be waste of ressources and time, because those systems are not matured enough?

 

[Radko]

Or he could be talking about Kaan P1 and not the P0

 

[TheInsider]

TAI is at the helm of the project. The decision of the first flight is TAI's responsibility so we should take TAI's word when different announcements are made.

 

[Strong AI]

TAI is at the helm of the project. The decision of the first flight is TAI's responsibility so we should take TAI's word when different announcements are made.

Doesn't SSB own the rights of KAAN, like they do with Altay MBT?

"A contract was signed with TUSAŞ, our national aviation company, for the Phase-I, Stage-I “Preliminary Design” activities of the Project on August 5, 2016, and the project calendar started on September 17, 2018 (T0)."

MMU MİLLİ MUHARİP UÇAK - SSB

www.ssb.gov.tr

 

[TheInsider]

Owning the rights to the end product doesn't mean running the project. SSB has no right to declare a first flight date. According to the signed MMU protocol design, development, production, and any activity related to those is the responsibility of TAI so engineers of TAI will decide if the MMU is cleared for the first flight, not SSB bureaucrats.

 

[Fairon]

On the other hand overworking the engineers could have potential the hurt the projects in the long run.

This is a marathon( even if we consider 2028 delivery) and at some point there is a risk of overworking and burning out the engineers. We should relax a bit. An accident could potentially became a disaster for TUSAS.

We should relax a bit. Or TUSAS plans on feeding new young engineers to projects to replace burned out ones.

 

[TheInsider]

TAI knows best if the engineers are overworking or not or if the aircraft is fit to conduct its first flight. I doubt any SSB bureaucrats have any detailed data about the airworthiness of Kaan.

 

[Fairon]

TAI knows best if the engineers are overworking or not or if the aircraft is fit to conduct its first flight. I doubt any SSB bureaucrats have any detailed data about the airworthiness of Kaan.

Yes TAI knows that. They say they are overworking and they are proud of it. That is not a question.

Question is how long can they sustain this or is it sustainable? It usually isn't. We are not talking about just couple of years.

 

[TheInsider]

Yes TAI knows that. They say they are overworking and they are proud of it. That is not a question.

Question is how long can they sustain this or is it sustainable? It usually isn't. We are not talking about just couple of years.

TAI is not overworking its engineers some engineers do overwork voluntarily these two things are not the same thing.

 

[buraktunahan]

Comparison of Kaan and some fighters.

 

[Zafer]

Yes TAI knows that. They say they are overworking and they are proud of it. That is not a question.

Question is how long can they sustain this or is it sustainable? It usually isn't. We are not talking about just couple of years.

Temel Kotil seems to be more worried about finding his people more work to do than relieving them from work. Every project has its busy times until they get past their critical stages. Seems like many of our projects have just passed that stage and can move slower after just one year of time.

 

[Fairon]

I hope both of you are right.

 

[Bogeyman]

Owning the rights to the end product doesn't mean running the project. SSB has no right to declare a first flight date. According to the signed MMU protocol design, development, production, and any activity related to those is the responsibility of TAI so engineers of TAI will decide if the MMU is cleared for the first flight, not SSB bureaucrats.

KAAN cannot fly unless the relevant chief engineers give flight approval. You can make the engineer resign, but you can't fly the plane. Engineers who are not convinced that the flight is reliable also do not want to take responsibility. At least if they're in their right minds...

 

[neosinan]

This needs to be shared here, I literally LoLed

Saab's Chief engineer to TFX project manager circa 2011

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1658873130943672321

Full translation,
With our force's demands, the 2x F135 or equivalent will barely fit. I'll never forget, SAAB's chief engineer said 'are you aware what you want, this is F22 re-invented'.

 

[TheInsider]

KAAN cannot fly unless the relevant chief engineers give flight approval. You can make the engineer resign, but you can't fly the plane. Engineers who are not convinced that the flight is reliable also do not want to take responsibility. At least if they're in their right minds...

This is exactly what I said. The decision rests in the hands of TAI engineers.

 

[Heartbang]

are you aware what you want, this is F22 re-invented

Funnily enough, that's exactly what Lock-mart has offered Japan to buy.
But since they closed the F-22 assembly lines, the cost of reopening those lines and making the actual planes(rumored to be $177 million per plane) made Japan go "B R U H" and buy F-35's instead.

 

[Ecderha]

Just for information.

New Views Of Northrop Grumman's Totally Notional Long-Range Stealth Fighter

A series of new ads, which follow a similar one from 2021, give us new looks at Northrop Grumman's conceptual NGAD-like tactical jet.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Just imagine, ANKA-III doing SEAD/DEAD with AKBABA and CAKIR/SIMSEK, KIZILELMA doing CAP with GÖKHAN and KAAN watching their back like a proud dad.
IMHO enemy forces need to invest heavily in their Airforces, not in SAMs.

When we think all these systems have AESA radar/BVR missiles and can communicate to each other and/or all have AI/deep learning algorithms and autonomous attack/defense capabilities, there is not much a conventional enemy can do. Not to mention Super Şimsek decoy/kamikaze drone system which is not much example in known war concept of advanced states. Soon, IHA-Radar, IHA-SOJ and Hava-SOJ will be added to this family and these aircrafts will be able to carry out very complex missions (SEAD/DEAD, Air superiority/Air denial) in teams to be formed. With a classic point of view and/or tactics coming from WW-2, it is impossible to counter such a complex and layered strategy without having very strong electronic warfare, surveillance capabilities and unique tactics. With the help of unmanned systems, probably more than half of enemy air elements will be destroyed in first hours of a likely war without taking very serious risks in this concept of war so surprise effect must be kept secret and enemy shouldn't aware of actual capabilities of those systems in peace times.