TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Strong AI]

And on the other hand, there's no project declared by the officals yet. Kale, TrMotor, TEI all talking about their efforts to develop Kaan's engines but there's no ongoing official project.

Sure. And Haluk Görgün is no official, right?

"A separate team has been working on KAAN's engine for a long time. TR Motor is part of this process. Our plan is for our self-produced engine to meet the requirements for mass production."

Görgün, explaining that the platform and engine development started together, said, "We began with a motor design that could meet the thrust and energy needs of the aircraft, and it continues. We do not want any situation where we cannot obtain our engine when we start mass production. There is no partnership in KAAN's engine production in Turkey."

 

[Sai]

Modern engineering tools that were not available 5-10 years in the past such as machine learning, high fidelity simulation, AI, additive manufacturing and more can help speed up the development process.

No sir, they won't help much. There is a huge difference between TF35000 and TF10000. Why? You see, as the thrust requirement increases, the intake temperature at the turbine increases. The only limit on this temperature is due to metallurgical constraints. And no one will share with you the metallurgy because this is decades of research. Even in the US-India F414 engine deal, where the US agreed to share 80% of the TOT, the metallurgy details were not included. China has struggled with jet engine technology for years. Why? The jet engine blades run at extreme temperatures, and the challenge of overcoming the heat problem has plagued China until now. The blades overheated at higher output levels, causing premature failure and forcing engineers to reduce power output so the engines would have a reasonable lifespan. Aerodynamics, thermodynamics, material science, structural integrity, and control systems are very complex for optimized performance and efficiency. It is no easy task to bring a high-thrust output engine to life in less than a decade.

 

[Zafer]

No sir, they won't help much. There is a huge difference between TF35000 and TF10000. Why? You see, as the thrust requirement increases, the intake temperature at the turbine increases. The only limit on this temperature is due to metallurgical constraints. And no one will share with you the metallurgy because this is decades of research. Even in the US-India F414 engine deal, where the US agreed to share 80% of the TOT, the metallurgy details were not included. China has struggled with jet engine technology for years. Why? The jet engine blades run at extreme temperatures, and the challenge of overcoming the heat problem has plagued China until now. The blades overheated at higher output levels, causing premature failure and forcing engineers to reduce power output so the engines would have a reasonable lifespan. Aerodynamics, thermodynamics, material science, structural integrity, and control systems are very complex for optimized performance and efficiency. It is no easy task to bring a high-thrust output engine to life in less than a decade.

Even protein folding research benefit from advanced technology so will metallurgy field. As far as we can see Türkiye has already achieved some levels in hot section parts of engines. I guess we can achieve F110 engine power levelc already and looking for better performance. We will know what we are made of when the engine is built. Or I would say as early as when the TF10000 is built.

 

[Isbara]

Sure. And Haluk Görgün is no official, right?

"A separate team has been working on KAAN's engine for a long time. TR Motor is part of this process. Our plan is for our self-produced engine to meet the requirements for mass production."

Görgün, explaining that the platform and engine development started together, said, "We began with a motor design that could meet the thrust and energy needs of the aircraft, and it continues. We do not want any situation where we cannot obtain our engine when we start mass production. There is no partnership in KAAN's engine production in Turkey."

Is there any project annaunced by the SSB or MSB ? No..
We all know something going on about this matter but there's nothing clear. What made you think that I'm unaware of Mr. Gorgun's statements but that's not the case.
Kale is working on something, TrMotor've been working on something so does TEI ? But who is actually responsible for the project ? Who's the main contractor ? Who are the sub-contractors ? Many things still remain undecided.

 

[Zafer]

Is there any project annaunced by the SSB or MSB ? No..
We all know something going on about this matter but there's nothing clear. What made you think that I'm unaware of Mr. Gorgun's statements but that's not the case.
Kale is working on something, TrMotor've been working on something so does TEI ? But who is actually responsible for the project ? Who's the main contractor ? Who are the sub-contractors ? Many things still remain undecided.

It is TR Motor's job to design the engine, TEI's job to manufacture it and other companies can be used to outsource parts production.

 

[Strong AI]

Many things still remain undecided.

Says who?
They do not have to broadcast everything.
Do you want to fund the project?

 

[Iskander]

Not a good idea to let Azerbaijan unconditionally participate in our Wunderwaffen-programs.

Azerbaijan is a very Israel-friendly country and the Mossad is everywhere in Azerbaijan. Definitely not a good idea.

It is wrong to imagine that Mossad agents in groups of 3-5 people roam the central streets of Baku, as if at home, in search of how to harm the interests of Turkiye here or learn its secrets.
As for KAAN, Azerbaijan is confidently ahead of everyone in the queue for its acquisition. No Italians will be able to elbow us out of here

 

[Scott Summers]

You probably don't know that we at the UN always vote for Palestine and against Israel! But, despite this, Israel has always supported us in the Karabakh problem and even during the war did not stop supplying us with weapons. This may seem counterintuitive, but it is nonetheless true. Nobody sold us the weapons that we purchased from them 15 years ago. Türkiye either did not have them or did not have the right to export them. I can give you a whole list.
It is wrong to imagine that Mossad agents in groups of 3-5 people roam the central streets of Baku, as if at home, in search of how to harm the interests of Turkiye here or learn its secrets.
As for KAAN, Azerbaijan is confidently ahead of everyone in the queue for its acquisition. No Italians will be able to elbow us out of here

It's not about Israel only. Azerbaijan has a own foreign policy and must defend their interests. That is logical. But fact is that the intelligence services of Azerbaijan and Israel work together at high levels.

But Turkey has is own interests too and should not share their newest technologies of category A directly with other countries, even if that is Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Pakistan etc.

We can share the tech of a 5th gen fighter after we produced a 6th gen fighter. Like Russia only exported the S400 after they produced the S500.

The USA for example doesnt sell the F-22 Raptor to any friendly country, not even to Israel.

Your countries highest tech should only remain in your own country.

 

[Afif]

It's not about Israel only. Azerbaijan has a own foreign policy and must defend their interests. That is logical. But fact is that the intelligence services of Azerbaijan and Israel work together at high levels.

But Turkey has is own interests too and should not share their newest technologies of category A directly with other countries, even if that is Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Pakistan etc.

We can share the tech of a 5th gen fighter after we produced a 6th gen fighter. Like Russia only exported the S400 after they produced the S500.

The USA for example doesnt sell the F-22 Raptor to any friendly country, not even to Israel.

Your countries highest tech should only remain in your own country.

Except that is not how it works. USA do sell its latest product, I.e. F-35.
Which is no less than F-22. UK, Italy & Japan is planning to export Tempset. S-500 isn't an upgrade of S-400. It is different system. Neither replaces the other. And Russisa did try to market S-500 to India.

But more importantly, no exporter country is sharing any tech. Where did you get the idea exporting means sharing tech? USA didn't share any sensetive tech of F-35 with any of the partner country. Also, trying to reverse engineer anything require dismantling the platform. No country can do that without being caught.

 

[Sai]

Except that is not how to works. USA do sell its latest product, I.e. F-35.
Which is no less than F-22. UK, Italy & Japan is planning to export Tempset. S-500 isn't an upgrade of S-400. It is different system. Neither replaces the other. And Russisa did try to market S-500 to India.

But more importantly, no exporter country is sharing any tech. Where did you get the idea exporting means sharing tech? USA didn't share any sensetive tech of F-35 with any of the partner country. Also, trying to reverse engineer anything require dismantling the whole platform. No country can do that without being caught.

True to some extent. But export versions are always downgraded versions of the original ones.

 

[DBdev]

The USA for example doesnt sell the F-22 Raptor to any friendly country, not even to Israel.
Your countries highest tech should only remain in your own country.

If America can sell F-35s, a plane that now beats F22 easily on Red Flag without compromising it's national security so can we sell KAAN without creating any national security problems for us. It is all in the software. Codes will stay with us. So will the true control of the planes.

I say sell it to every nation under the sun with money to order at least 10 billion USD KAAN contracts except those known to have advanced reverse engineering capabilities, like Korea, Japan and West.

Also RCS of American F35s and the export versions are not the same. It can even be adjusted for each country the way RAM skin of our F35s were looking completely different from all others not just American ones.

 

[Afif]

True to some extent. But export versions are always downgraded versions of the original ones.

There are inbuilt software safety for export versions. Which restrict the use in ways that exporter country may not prefer. But you can't downgrade the hardware and also call it true 5th gen. For example, there was a official talk of USAF buying off Turkish F-35s with some additional software modification contract. That means, Turkish F-35s has the same central processor, radar, EOTS, DAS, EW suite, LO characteristics & engine that USAF original F-35s has.

 

[DBdev]

There are inbuilt software safety for export versions. Which restrict the use in ways that exporter country may not prefer. But you can't downgrade the hardware and also call it true 5th gen. For example, there was a official talk of USAF buying off Turkish F-35s with some additional software modification contract. That means, Turkish F-35s has the same central processor, radar, EOTS, DAS, EW suite, LO characteristics & engine that USAF original F-35s has.

Options are endless with software. F35s could always be secretly waiting a remote signal to shut down their engines. You can protect plane against reverse engineering by military encryption and by completely removing most critical pieces of code from planes and make planes run main server dependent. Like they do with F-35s.You can cancel all of the supposed stealth by simply using a software triggered radio locator. It could give away its location with periodic encrypted multi-channel pings when plane is airborne. It is impossible for us to know or decompile tens of millions of lines code to catch that trojan horse. That is why we can not trust any foreign, especially cleverly deceptive American equipment. Even Microsoft can not make Windows inaccessible to American government according to Edward Snowden. What makes you think they will not do 1000 times worse with all their military exports not just F-35s. This is why our Viper purchase is a huge mistake.

Why should we never trust west especially America?
People of our so called NATO "allies" were begging Putin on all social media to "Please nuke Türkiye and take Constantinople back" after 1 Russian plane was shot down.

America, Germany etc. left NATO bases in Türkiye immediately.

Took Patriots with them, left us all open to Russian attack. Retaliation started with Russia giving PKK, MANPADs and PKK killing one of our helicopter pilots with that.
More was coming, for sure. It was THAT serious. Erdogan had to apologize to Putin and Russian pilot's family in person and had to fire PM Ahmet Davutoğlu for giving the order. All to save us from Russia's further retaliations.

So that is NATO the NATO that even now after we bent the knee on Sweden STILL embargos us. Even with closed source code Eurofighter and countless other critical national security technologies that our "allies" don't want us to have.

In Short: Even if it is a toy that you are buying from America, west, BUYER BEWARE!
PS: I am a hacker and a software engineer myself.

 

[Isbara]

It is TR Motor's job to design the engine, TEI's job to manufacture it and other companies can be used to outsource parts production.

Whith who and which facility are they going to design the engine ?
If so why Prf. Aksit expressed that they're working on TF-35000 ? Also added In they're trying to develop and test on TF10000, the tech they're going to use on TF35000.
So what is TEI developing for TF35000 if it is TR-Motor to design engine ? This project had become a nutshell already.

 

[Isbara]

Says who?
They do not have to broadcast everything.
Do you want to fund the project?

I'm talking about the facts. Not personal guesses.

 

[Strong AI]

I'm talking about the facts. Not personal guesses.

So the Head of SSB saying this

"A separate team has been working on KAAN's engine for a long time. TR Motor is part of this process. Our plan is for our self-produced engine to meet the requirements for mass production."

Görgün, explaining that the platform and engine development started together, said, "We began with a motor design that could meet the thrust and energy needs of the aircraft, and it continues. We do not want any situation where we cannot obtain our engine when we start mass production. There is no partnership in KAAN's engine production in Turkey."

And for you they are

personal guesses

Alright, have a nice day.

 

[Isbara]

So the Head of SSB saying this


And for you they are


Alright, have a nice day.

I've responded to your statement below.

They do not have to broadcast everything.

And yet again I'll repeat. I do not care about "They don't say everything" like assuptions. We should talk about facts.
Unless we have evidence proves otherwise , this project is in a nutshell.
Even the head of SSM talk about (As a defence industry ethısiast of course I'm aware of his statements) there are so many missing parst about that project. All those TR Motor vs discussed before many times.

Do not try chep shots like this. And pls do not try to make things personal.

 

[Dosirak]

CDR of this KAAN hasn't not been completed, correct? I'd not be too fuss about an exact date of maiden flight before CDR. It essentially doesn't matter until the detailed design is confirmed and is evaluated to demtermine if it could satisfy performance requirements stated in the capabilities development document.

An actual prototype will fly probably a few years after successful completion of CDR anyway.

 

[dBSPL]

Not a good idea to let Azerbaijan unconditionally participate in our Wunderwaffen-programs.

Azerbaijan is a very Israel-friendly country and the Mossad is everywhere in Azerbaijan. Definitely not a good idea.

If there are security problems, necessary measures will be taken. You don't need to go all the way to Azerbaijan, if you go back a few years ago, you will see that the real security problems are internal.

Azerbaijan must be supported militarily under all circumstances. From my point of view, this issue is not even open for discussion. If you don't support it, Azerbaijan will of course continue to be forced to turn to whoever gives it under all the embargo and pressure.

 

[Spitfire9]

CDR of this KAAN hasn't not been completed, correct? I'd not be too fuss about an exact date of maiden flight before CDR. It essentially doesn't matter until the detailed design is confirmed and is evaluated to demtermine if it could satisfy performance requirements stated in the capabilities development document.

An actual prototype will fly probably a few years after successful completion of CDR anyway.

Your assessment of probability is unusual.

My understanding is that the prototypes being built are design development airframes, subject to change, rather than 'identical' aircraft to test a frozen design.

Out of curiosity, a prototype aircraft exists that moves under its own power on the ground and was projected to fly last year, so why do you think it will be several years before it flies?