TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Yasar_TR]

Guys are you seriously saying turkish officials made up those numbers, timelines and specifications like KAAN being delivered with turkish engines?

Bro, it is nice to have enthusiasm. But the way it is told to the public and the reality are quite a bit different.
When we decided to buy F35, we were also a partner manufacturer country. We ”tentatively” committed to 100planes. After adding up the order quantities given at different times, our total order stood at 30 units. UK committed 138 to buy but so far only bought 48 planes. (43 delivered)

Jakarta, IDM – Indonesia and Turkey have signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) for cooperation in the development of the fifth-generation fighter jet KAAN.

That is exactly what I thought. Just like the 100 planes we committed tentatively, they are committing to 48+12. Nothing certain. In the meantime we will teach them how to build our KAAN as a 5th gen plane.

So this is just a MOU. Many things may change going forward.
Same with Hurjet. Spanish will want to mould our plane according to their needs. But they are more serious and have a good base for producing planes and their engines.

 

[Rooxbar]

Based on what? Wasn't the plan always 2025 for 2nd and 3rd prototype?
Can you provide a source for your last sentence?

Kotil: 2 adet KAAN savaş uçağı hatta | SavunmaSanayiST

TUSAŞ CEO'su Temel Kotil, KAAN savaş uçağının iki prototipinin daha montaj hattına alındığını ve KAAN'ın şu anda uçabilecek durumda olduğunu açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

2 adet KAAN üretim hattında

TUSAŞ Genel Müdürü Prof. Dr. Temel Kotil Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii'nin 2 adet daha KAAN'ın üretimine başladığını açıkladı.

www.defenceturk.net

"2023 yılında hangardan çıkış yaptı. 2026 yılına kadar, 3 adet prototipin üretilmesi hedefleniyor."

3rd prototype by the end of 2025 was always the plan and had been reiterated in interviews multiple times. Comparatively with other programs, it would be the normal rate; 2nd and 3rd prototypes are produced mostly within a year after the first one for majority of modern fighters; most recent ones it comes down to 6 months). The first prototype was finished already by March 2023.

 

[Rooxbar]

You just confirmed what i did write. No?

Nope, when you say in early 2023, that by the end of 2025 we will have two more prototypes, that heavily implies the production will be over by the end of 2025, one for 2024 another for 2025; you can't build two prototypes in 5 months.

 

[Rooxbar]

I don't have patience for lapses of reading comprehension.

 

[Rooxbar]

It was already a miracle that GTU-0 has flown with that timeline, and yet people here sh*tting on a 5th-gen fighter project which will even have its own indigenous engines.

What were your contributions to Türkiye "experts"? What did you guys achieve that you can complain over a 5th-gen fighter project?

Another lapse of reading comprehension; show exactly where in my post I am "shitting on [Kaan]". You're fighting windmills because of assumptions which only exist in your head. Read carefully.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Honestly, this creates a significant misunderstanding. It gives the impression that a contract is already in place, when it's clearly still at the MOU stage.

Don’t be surprised a bit. The current administration loves to confuse people in a lot of things. Like Yasar abi said, this sound too good to be true.

 

[Spitfire9]

Congratulations to TAI on securing an agreement from Indonesia to buy 48 KAAN!

Cautionary footnote:

Indonesia did not honour its agreements with KAI

 

[Rooxbar]

You are crying that 2nd and 3rd prototypes are not ready despite it was stated for years now that they will be probably ready in 2025. There are literally some pictures from the early production of the 2nd prototype. And even it gets delayed few months or even a year, it is normal for a project with such big magnitude. And someone with a "TTA" tag should know that.

Third lapse; I was stating facts. Facts don't cry. Delays are normal. I said there are delays (which effectively there are since 2 prototypes can't be built in 5 months), you disputed facts and now that you have to concede you move the goalpost to my personal view of the matter which has nothing to do with my posts, to obscure the original point about you being wrong on all accounts. This is super pointless, will not engage anymore.

 

[Joe mark]

I think friends are criticizing this news because of their political ideology

 

[mehmed beg]

I am more than sure that Indonesians know a lot more about KAAN project and where it stands then anybody in this forum.
For me personally, if confirmed, this means that the Indonesians have some confidence in the Turkish designed engines.
Also, some experience from working on KFX 21 , can be handy. Add to that probability that Pakistanis would surly give their opinion about the Stealth, after they get j35 . All of it is fantastic.
If Turks get F35 in B version, then all is going to really good direction.

 

[Rooxbar]

Now prove that they didn't start the production of those two prototypes and if they didn't started yet, prove that they can't do it in five months.

Can't prove that; it's very unlikely though (would put odds at something like 500 to 1). My original post was about what I'm expecting; I have been expecting news about the new prototype and very excited to see it. A bit disappointed about the delays but they are understandable. If there are delays I want forthright and honest acknowledgment and statement. Overly defensive posturing will land you with F313 and a population which can't say 'look that's a maquette', and the officials can afford to sell maquettes as the real thing because objective analysis is silenced and the rest are bootlickers.

 

[Bogeyman]

Will be too many expensive jets, they are buying 40 new 5th gens, awacs and air defense form China, they seem to have realized the immediacy of their weaknesses after recent incident and won't wait for Kaan and won't have money for it any time soo. Maybe in the future

Kaan's deliveries will start in 7 years. It is claimed that Pakistan will receive J-35 fighter jets in 2-3 months. Pakistan has just come out of a war with India. It is too early to think about Kaan for Pakistan.

 

[Samba]

They posted it on their Instagram only?

Anyways this means we show a big middle finger to USA. Indonesia will probably show it to France.

Regardless, I doubt if USA will allow the use of its engines

 

[Rooxbar]

You can check reactions to the post to see that I've seen those; It's been 2 years since the first prototype finished, obviously they've made parts since then. The whole discussion was about the fact that by 5 months time we should have had 2 prototypes ready and we have none yet. Hopefully we see the second prototype ready in the next 5 months.

 

[guest12]

Timeline doest make sense considering current situation of Erdogan goverment this is most likely bogus news for internal consumption.

 

[Sanchez]

So Hürjet MoU with Spain is a lie too? Oh no...

It's a MoU, a statement of will and interest of creating something.

It looks like two MoU were signed, one for procurement and another one for cooperation.

Both are MoUs, which are again statements of interest, none of it are legally binding contracts. There's no payment for the aircraft, there's no official documentation.

Turkiye order is between 250 - 350 . Where u get that 100 number ?

Current Turkish order for Kaan as far as I'm aware is 0 excluding the prototypes SSB ordered.

Indonesia did not honour its agreements with KAI

Neither did KAI honour its agreements with Indonesia in tech sharing.

This is a momentous occasion for two countries, more so for Turkey. But an MoU is just an MoU. It needs to be followed by further agreements and a solid order from the customer side, which with it will bring TAI ordering the necessary subcomponents to actually build the aircraft for delivery. Indonesian friends may not like me saying it, but legal side of the future deal must be rock solid to not hamper the development of the aircraft and put TAI in the red during development and more importantly during production phase. For Korea, KF-21 development being hampered is not the end of the world, for Turkey, everything rides on Kaan. It's the apple of our eye and war of liberation 2.0. Indonesia as its first outside customer hopefully will also see what we see in it and adopt it as their own. Full, unhampered access to a next gen fighter that you own completely, that its seller won't dictate you terms at for its use. This requires absolute goodwill on both sides for decades to come and that will also bring so many more opportunities. Indonesia didn't have that with their Korean partners, hoping it will not repeat.

Putting economics and politics aside, I do think Kaan is a perfect match for Indonesian needs more than anything, so much more than KF-21 ever was. It's a 5th gen high performance aircraft that can do anything its peers can do and more at greater ranges. Noone is offering an equivalent aircraft at this time and won't be offering it for decades to come. If we can pull Kaan off, it will be the most produced 5th gen fighter after F-35 easily in the decades to follow.

Best of luck to us all.

 

[Oublious]

 

[mTT]

You can check reactions to the post to see that I've seen those; It's been 2 years since the first prototype finished, obviously they've made parts since then. The whole discussion was about the fact that by 5 months time we should have had 2 prototypes ready and we have none yet. Hopefully we see the second prototype ready in the next 5 months.

President of Defense Industry Görgün shared the image of the 2nd prototype of the national combat aircraft KAAN.

I remember a news dated January 2025.


I think we will see the third prototype in January 2026.

 

[Spitfire9]

It's a MoU, a statement of will and interest of creating something.

Both are MoUs, which are again statements of interest, none of it are legally binding contracts. There's no payment for the aircraft, there's no official documentation.

Current Turkish order for Kaan as far as I'm aware is 0 excluding the prototypes SSB ordered.

Neither did KAI honour its agreements with Indonesia in tech sharing.

I followed the long saga of Indonesia failing to meet its agreements, promising to observe its agreements and to make good the development money outstanding then failing to do that again, then asking for a reduction in its share of development costs and (I believe) failing to build facilities in Indonesia as promised for development/assembly of K-FX. IIRC 30 development engineers ended up working in ROK.

I don't know. Funds allocated for KF-X went into corrupt pockets?

If you refer to prototype no 5, promised to Indonesia in the contract that was not transferred according to the contract but instead retained by KAI because Indonesia kept lying that it would pay what it owed towards development costs. At one point it wanted ROK to take aircraft built in Indonesia as part payment since it did not have any funds to pay. Then it ordered a load of Rafales. Were they free? I don't think so.

Beware of dealing with Indonesia.

 

[Fairon]

How do you know that they are not ready or close to ready?
Besides first flight of first F-35A prototype (AA-1) was in 2006, first flight of second prototype (AF-1) was in 2009.
So what is your point?

The F-35 project isn’t exactly famous for being well-managed, though.