TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Pokemonte13]

Alright Korea and turkey are different countries. Koreas main objective with Kf21 is to bring out a fighter jet fast which is able to use Korean weapons similarly to the Jf17. As the threat of an embargo against them is low they can use foreign parts to speed delivery and upgrade it over time. There can be problems with selling to other countries if the Americans want to sell them their own stuff or have problems but it’s not a certainty.
Kaan is different it’s mission profile is different as it’s supposed to be stealth fighter from the beginning and we are like 5-8 years behind in defence than Korea.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Guys, let’s get real.
With it’s educational push and a lot of hard work and sacrifice after the Korean war, South Korea has become one of the top dogs in the East when it comes to industrial and technological development. Their achievement can be nothing short of enviable.

They have not alienated all their hens that laid golden eggs, while getting there, like we have done. And correctly too!

This is a country that has a nominal gdp of 1.85billion dollars and a population of 51 million. It has a well established automotive production capacity while carrying it’s own brands with a world leading electronics and heavy industries to top it.

Without their input Altay tank could not have materialised. And they came to it’s rescue with the engine and transmission when we were left in the lurch by the Germans.

It is not a clever and economically correct thing to manufacture everything in house for a vehicle or weapon system. Mercedes uses Renault engine blocks in its 1500cc engines. Many parts for major car manufacturers are obtained from far east.

Just because some Boeing planes‘ parts are manufactured abroad (Tusas being amongst them) or the engines have parts that are manufactured by subcontractors (like, TEI, MTU Aero and IHI) doesn’t make that plane any less developed. The design is still American.

Let us not belittle others. But look at what we are doing. We are at the precipice of getting stuck on KAAN project now. US f110 engine supply is a big question mark still.
We don’t know when our indigenous engine will be ready to fly KAAN. Whether we will encounter any obstacles in its development is an unknown at the moment. That is why we are buying Typhoons.

 

[urban mine]

Speaking of the Eurofighter, was it introduced to replace the F-4 2020? If it is introduced, will all F-4 2020s be retired by 2030?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Speaking of the Eurofighter, was it introduced to replace the F-4 2020? If it is introduced, will all F-4 2020s be retired by 2030?

Hopefully yes.
Being twin engined and like a weapons cart, it is modern and sophisticated version of a phantom.
It is also a very good fighter interceptor. That way it fills the void of a good interceptor to counteract Greece’s Rafales
Phantoms should have been retired in 2020.

 

[Zafer]

There is only 1-2 years between using the Korean engine for Altay and using the BMC engine, we might as well wait for the domestic engine or better make a hybrid from the get go. There will again be no more then 2 years between the deomestic engine and a foreign engine, so we may as well wait for the Kaan engine to come online and counter the hostility with unmanned fighters which they have no match for in just a year or two from now. We have more than enough of other weapons to compensate for the fighter jet shortcomings. There is no need to bend over backwards to get anything foreign anymore.

 

[urban mine]

There is only 1-2 years between using the Korean engine for Altay and using the BMC engine, we might as well wait for the domestic engine or better make a hybrid from the get go. There will again be no more then 2 years between the deomestic engine and a foreign engine, so we may as well wait for the Kaan engine to come online and counter the hostility with unmanned fighters which they have no match for in just a year or two from now. We have more than enough of other weapons to compensate for the fighter jet shortcomings. There is no need to bend over backwards to get anything foreign anymore.

Well, actual users might not see it that way. While actual demand is factored into the plan, waiting for it entails cost increases and risks. Consider the time and money the Turkish military has wasted waiting until now.

 

[Zafer]

Well, actual users might not see it that way. While actual demand is factored into the plan, waiting for it entails cost increases and risks. Consider the time and money the Turkish military has wasted waiting until now.

I am all for not going for foreign fighters even now. We might as well keep the money in the pocket and patch the gap with drones for 4 years more max.

 

[boredaf]

I am all for not going for foreign fighters even now. We might as well keep the money in the pocket and patch the gap with drones for 4 years more max.

Not this again... Those drones are not going to be at a state to fill in the place of fighter jets in the next 4 years either.

This whole conversation is just something between a pissing contest and "kedi ulaşamadığı ciğere mundar dermiş".-Sour Grapes-
South Korea did what they needed to do to build a jet to fulfil their needs and we are doing the same.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I don’t know how many times we are going to discuss this issue of drones taking the place of conventional jet fighters.
As per @boredaf ’s numerous posts and mine, no drone, with current technology can take the place of fighter jets.

Even jet powered UCAVs can not replace a fully fledged fighter jet.
All of Bayraktar prop job UAVs and UCAVs are potential prey to simplest of SAMs. A modern army with a decent AD system will make mince meat out of those UCAVs. They are only good in a battlefield if you have total control of related airspace.
In time a drone like KE may be in a position to challenge conventional fighter jets. But that is not yet possible.
A drone like stealthy Anka-3 can be an asset to infiltrate deep in to enemy airspace for taking out enemy AD systems. But they will be most effective when accompanied by a fighter like KAAN.

We have a weakness in air concerning our fighter projection and their capabilities. Until KAAN becomes fully operational this deficiency will persist. That is why we are so keen to purchasing Typhoons.

Some members still look at the drone capability of Turkiye with blinkered eyes. Yes! Our drones are probably one of the best in the world for bucks spent. They are very capable and effective within the constraints they have. Outside their comfort zones they are sitting ducks against modern armies.

 

[Zafer]

Blinkering is in the eye of the beholder, you can't win a war by buying weapons from the enemy. Your own made weapon is the best weapon that will fight for you. Make it in numbers that will outnumber the enemy by manifold and team it up with your free fighters making it the most formidable fleet in existence. This is only two years away max. Waging war is not about matching the enemy one-o-one it is about matching the enemy with weapons that make a comparable effect on the whole.