TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[OPTIMUS]

TAI is facing very serious problems with the tail stabilizer actuators of the Kaan aircraft.

 

[OPTIMUS]

And unfortunately, they approached the problem from the wrong angle rather than as it should be. Even foreign manufacturers applied for technical support, although they stated that solving the problem was not possible, yet TAI considers this a sort of secret embargo and is spending thousands of engineering hours and resources to solve this issue. And this is wrong.

 

[OPTIMUS]

Even if one day TAI announces that these actuators are developed and produced locally, it won't fix this mistake. The mistake will still be there. Either they'll cut the parts that should be on the plane's horizontal stabilizers, or the plane will fly with a faulty design.

 

[2033]

TAI is facing very serious problems with the tail stabilizer actuators of the Kaan aircraft.

What is your source?

 

[OPTIMUS]

What is your source?

The source is definitely not a TUSAS employee.

The source is a foreign company that TUSAS was thinking of assigning to produce these actuators. But the company reported to TUSAS that this is technically impossible. There are two other foreign companies applied as well. The report they sent to TUSAS is along the same lines.

I can take one more step regarding the source, but nothing more.

 

[Samba]

The source is definitely not a TUSAS employee.

The source is a foreign company that TUSAS was thinking of assigning to produce these actuators. But the company reported to TUSAS that this is technically impossible. There are two other foreign companies applied as well. The report they sent to TUSAS is along the same lines.

I can take one more step regarding the source, but nothing more.

What was the case with P0?
What is fundamentally different than of F22, F35, J35, SU57 stabilizers? How come do they have solution?

 

[uçuyorum]

The source is definitely not a TUSAS employee.

The source is a foreign company that TUSAS was thinking of assigning to produce these actuators. But the company reported to TUSAS that this is technically impossible. There are two other foreign companies applied as well. The report they sent to TUSAS is along the same lines.

I can take one more step regarding the source, but nothing more.

So you say shorten it? Or move the pivot point? Is it basically the thing is too long and a high power actuator will not fit the space available?

 

[OPTIMUS]

Im Laufe der Geschichte des modernen westlichen Flugzeugdesigns gibt es zwei Flugzeuge mit übergroßen Höhenleitwerken – beide sind im Wesentlichen Bomber: die F-111 und die Tornado. Folglich sind sie keine reinen Lufthoheitsjäger wie die KAAN. Darüber hinaus verfügt der KAAN über übergroße horizontale Stabilisatoren – vergleichbar in der Größe mit den Flügeln einer F-16.
Im Fall der F-111 führten die überdimensionierten Höhenleitwerke sogar zur Einstellung ihres Betriebs. Nach drei Verlusten in Vietnam – am 28. März 1968 (66–0022), 30. März 1968 (66–0017) und 22. April 1968 (22–0024) – wurde die gesamte F-111-Flotte vier Jahre lang gegroundet, bis September 1972. Das liefert einen kurzen Kontext.

TUSAS hatte ähnliche Probleme mit den Horizontalstabilisatoren des KAAN. Westliche Ingenieure – und später sowjetische/russische Ingenieure – lösten dieses Problem jedoch erfolgreich, indem sie eine subtile, aber notwendige Aussparung in den horizontalen Stabilisator integrierten. Dieses Konstruktionsmerkmal ist in allen modernen Höhenleitwerken vorhanden, insbesondere ab der F-16 und fortgesetzt durch spätere MiG- und Su-Flugzeuge.

TUSAS hat jedoch den falschen Ansatz gewählt – ein wiederkehrendes Muster seit dem ANKA-Projekt – und setzt denselben Weg mit HÜRKUS und HÜRJET fort. Dies bleibt bestehen, auch wenn die Nasen- und Cockpitkonfiguration des Flugzeugs noch Änderungen erfordern. Dasselbe gilt für die Höhenleitwerke des HÜRJET.

Als militärischer Beschaffungsbeamter würde ich den HÜRKUS nicht kaufen. Derzeit wird das Flugzeug eher aufgrund politischer Einflussnahme und Verbindungen als aufgrund von Leistung verkauft. Obwohl der HÜRKUS mit einem der besten westlichen Motoren ausgestattet ist, erreicht er bei weitem nicht die Leistung des SUPER TUCANO oder des T-6 TEXAN II. Dies liegt vollständig an seinem Flügeldesign. Die an den Flügeln vorgenommenen Modifikationen – nach verschiedenen Warnungen – sind sowohl minimal als auch grundlegend fehlerhaft (die Hinzufügung von Flügeln). Trotz mehrerer Versuche, diesen fehlgeleiteten Ansatz zu überarbeiten, bleibt das Design falsch. Folglich ist der HÜRKUS für leichte Angriffsoperationen von sehr begrenztem Nutzen; dem Flugzeug fehlt schlichtweg jegliche nennenswerte Nutzlastkapazität.

Ich werde in Kürze einige gute Neuigkeiten zum Aktuatorproblem teilen, das den Höhenleitwerker des KAAN betrifft. Ich überlasse es Ihnen, zu beurteilen, ob dies der richtige oder falsche Ansatz ist.

Bevor Sie zu einer Schlussfolgerung kommen, schlage ich vor, einen groben Vergleich zwischen den horizontalen Stabilisatoren westlicher Flugzeuge und denen russischer Entwürfe anzustellen. Die F-35 bildet eine Ausnahme, da dieses Flugzeug unter einem völlig anderen Einsatzprofil operiert.

 

[OPTIMUS]

According to the statement of Mr. Altinay, Chairman of the Board of ALTINAY Technology Group, the tail actuators required for the KAAN Aircraft were developed locally, qualified, and delivered to TUSAS.

Mr. Altinay also confirms that foreign companies were assigned to this task and returned to TUSAS with a report saying it couldn’t be done.

As far as I know, one of these companies is American and the other is German. You can figure out which companies they are by inferring from the previous message.

Now, is it right to insist on a solution that will lead to the wrong result, spending thousands of engineering hours, just to stick to a side list? Or is it better to go for a simple design change that has already proven itself? Other manufacturers chose the second way.

 

[Samba]

What was the case with P0?

According to the statement of Mr. Altinay, Chairman of the Board of ALTINAY Technology Group, the tail actuators required for the KAAN Aircraft were developed locally, qualified, and delivered to TUSAS.

Mr. Altinay also confirms that foreign companies were assigned to this task and returned to TUSAS with a report saying it couldn’t be done.

As far as I know, one of these companies is American and the other is German. You can figure out which companies they are by inferring from the previous message.

Now, is it right to insist on a solution that will lead to the wrong result, spending thousands of engineering hours, just to stick to a side list? Or is it better to go for a simple design change that has already proven itself? Other manufacturers chose the second way.

I am not an expert on the subject and technical details of vertical stabilizer. But in all images and schematics KAAN does not seem to have different sized ones than of the ones on f22 su57 or f35. What is fundamentally wrong on KAAN? Eeven if it is wrong, why do you think TAI chooses this way? Do they expect better results?

At the end of the day, everyone called Japanese scientist mad man for what he offered for chip production and they said it is impossible. Today it is possible and what made the difference.

 

[Zafer]

It is a shame Kaan project secrets are revealed on defencehub, admins should take action.

 

[Şok Tedavisi]

The source is definitely not a TUSAS employee.

The source is a foreign company that TUSAS was thinking of assigning to produce these actuators. But the company reported to TUSAS that this is technically impossible. There are two other foreign companies applied as well. The report they sent to TUSAS is along the same lines.

I can take one more step regarding the source, but nothing more.

It comes as no surprise that this happened, given the push for rapid production and the political pressures involved—let’s see what other kinds of manufacturing defects will surface... they had rushed the program too fast, I called P0 a flying concept they lynched me here because of that now the design problems are coming out.

 

[Şok Tedavisi]

It is a shame Kaan project secrets are revealed on defencehub, admins should take action.

So looks like Kaan is not going to shotdown any F35s like you were saying for years zafer

 

[TR_123456]

It is a shame Kaan project secrets are revealed on defencehub, admins should take action.

What secrets would those be?

So,whats secret about this?
Nothing changed,same shit.
Does this mean only morons decide what to do,you tell me?
Lets call it flappy flap instead of KAAN.

 

[Samba]

What secrets would those be?

View attachment 83798

View attachment 83799
So,whats secret about this?
Nothing changed,same shit.
Does this mean only morons decide what to do,you tell me?
Lets call it flappy flap instead of KAAN.

Until they show any technical difference between F35 F22 SU57 J35 and KAAN stabilizer size differences, any claim is nothşng more than speculation and bad intent.

 

[TR_123456]

Until they show any technical difference between F35 F22 SU57 J35 and KAAN stabilizer size differences, any claim is nothşng more than speculation and bad intent.

What bad intent could i have here?
Why come up with lame excuses?
The whole world can see the dumb mistakes,even after being warned many times they did nothing.
Would you rather like it when the KAAN becomes a laughing stock,''the Turks with their decades in aviation couldnt produce a working fighter jet,made a rookie mistake''.
if we dont argue about it who will?
They need to fix it ASAP or be ridiculed.

 

[Oublious]

It is funny have some people have faith in a german source who nobody nows as thrustworthy , he will solve the problem with texting on the internet.

I will soon share some good news about the actuator problem affecting the KAAN's vertical stabilizer. I'll leave it up to you to judge whether this is the right or wrong approach.

Before coming to a conclusion, I suggest making a rough comparison between the horizontal stabilizers of Western aircraft and those of Russian designs. The F-35 is an exception, as this aircraft operates under a completely different usage profile.

Remember the news about that titanium, everybody have jumped and was accusing Kotil.

 

[OPTIMUS]

What secrets would those be?

View attachment 83798

View attachment 83799
So,whats secret about this?
Nothing changed,same shit.
Does this mean only morons decide what to do,you tell me?
Lets call it flappy flap instead of KAAN.

No. It's not. In the second picture, TUSAS improved the tailplanes, but it's not enough. More needs to be cut off.

 

[OPTIMUS]

It is funny have some people have faith in a german source who nobody nows as thrustworthy , he will solve the problem with texting on the internet.



Remember the news about that titanium, everybody have jumped and was accusing Kotil.

That's exactly the problem we always have with the Turkish defense industry. Critics are immediately talked down to, and people act as if they know everything better while the others know nothing. Critics get everything from the internet. But they actually can't know anything.

Your condescending way of speaking shows exactly where the problem lies.

Dear people, the aviation industry has been accompanied by failures from the very beginning. That's just the nature of this field. Ultimately, humans are trying something they weren't made for: FLYING.

Of course, the Turkish aviation industry will also have failures. It's a MUST. But industry players also need to have an open ear for critics, for improvement suggestions, for tips. If you don't do that, you pay with human lives. Leading to the ruin of this industry. There have been a lot of examples of this too. Arrogance can lead to very painful results. Several companies went bankrupt because of it.

Above, I especially gave the example of the F111. Apparently, the people who think they know everything and can do everything but can't understand what they read. That's also a problem.

Sometimes you notice the construction problems years after the product has gone into service. Many fighter jets are among them. Like the F-15, F-16, F-4, JAS 39 Gripen, JAGUAR, HARRIER, and so on... All of these planes were later improved and refined. And there's no shame in that. Even the F-15 had its wing tips cut slanted backward and the vertical stabilizers got a shark-tooth shape.

I advise you to refrain from doing that. Otherwise, thousands of TEKNOFESTs won't fulfill their purpose as long as the industry is controlled by dinosaurs who know everything.

 

[Oublious]

That's exactly the problem we always have with the Turkish defense industry. Critics are immediately talked down to, and people act as if they know everything better while the others know nothing. Critics get everything from the internet. But they actually can't know anything.

Your condescending way of speaking shows exactly where the problem lies.

Dear people, the aviation industry has been accompanied by failures from the very beginning. That's just the nature of this field. Ultimately, humans are trying something they weren't made for: FLYING.

Of course, the Turkish aviation industry will also have failures. It's a MUST. But industry players also need to have an open ear for critics, for improvement suggestions, for tips. If you don't do that, you pay with human lives. Leading to the ruin of this industry. There have been a lot of examples of this too. Arrogance can lead to very painful results. Several companies went bankrupt because of it.

Above, I especially gave the example of the F111. Apparently, the people who think they know everything and can do everything can't understand what they read. That's also a problem.

Sometimes you notice the construction problems years after the product has gone into service. Many fighter jets are among them. Like the F-15, F-16, F-4, JAS 39 Gripen, JAGUAR, HARRIER, and so on... All of these planes were later improved and refined. And there's no shame in that. Even the F-15 had its wing tips cut slanted backward and the vertical stabilizers got a shark-tooth shape.

I advise you to refrain from doing that. Otherwise, thousands of TEKNOFESTs won't fulfill their purpose as long as the industry is controlled by dinosaurs who know everything.

Againg who the hell are you? Who is this german guy?

The problem with internet is everybody nows the best, so who are you?

Why is your critic valid and TUSAS is not valid?


do you have data?