TR Turkish Air Force News & Discussion

Stuka

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Feasibility Studies Started for Domestic AWACS​

Work has started for domestic AWACS production. According to the information obtained , feasibility studies have started for the domestic production of AWACS, namely Airborne Early Warning and Control (HIK) Aircraft, which the Air Force Command plans to use in the future.

AWACS aircraft, which enable air, land and surface naval platforms to be detected from long distances without being stuck on the horizon line of the world, include an advanced radar and are considered among strategic weapon systems, are among the indispensables of air combat. (See NATIONAL COMBATIVE AIRCRAFT (MMU) )

Boeing-manufactured E-7T aircraft, which have been successfully performing their duties since they entered service in 2015, are among the most critical and advanced systems available to the Air Force Command. However, this does not prevent the Turkish Air Force from procuring a domestic Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircraft whose critical data are known only to Turkey.

As a result of the developing defense industry ecosystem, many of our companies, especially Military Electronics Industry (ASELSAN) and Turkish Aerospace Industries (TUSAŞ), develop important technologies in the field of aircraft and electronic systems. Domestic AESA radars, which will be used in domestic platforms such as electronic warfare aircraft Hava SOJ and F-16, Bayraktar Akıncı, MİUS , Hürjet and National Combat Aircraft, can be given as an example to this situation.

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The Integrated RF System (BURFIS), developed by ASELSAN for the National Combat Aircraft, is the most advanced air-based AESA radar being developed in our country. Sanalsavunma.com, on the other hand, within the scope of the right to obtain information to learn whether our defense industry will undertake a larger project after this advanced radar, " Will the Air Force Command have a domestic AWACS hysteria? ” was asked to the Defense Planning and Project Management Presidency.

"Feasibility studies have been started on the subject and the public will be informed according to the results."

DEFENSE PLANNING AND PROJECT MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT

 

Yasar_TR

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Turkish FM has said that the decision on the sale of 40f16V70 planes and 80 upgtade kits being tied to Greek Airspace violation conditions is totally unacceptable. He has said that it is not possible to say yes to such a deal.
So will Turkey withdraw it’s request for this purchase?
That is the honourable thing to do. But do we have a plan B?
Eurofighter?
Rafale?
Ozgur configuration for all planes in hand?

The last paragraph has a very good point that needs to be discussed further.
Greeks complain about Aegean air space violations. But their planes have violated airspace over Turkish mainland many times. So why US is not capitulating the same to the Greeks about Turkish mainland airspace violations when they are selling planes and upgrade kits to them?
 

Ripley

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Although I’m hoping the statement to be a genuine one, my gut feeling and experience unfortunately makes it hard to believe that they will not accept it. I’m afraid they’ll accept it “as is” or maybe touch here and there and this statement will stay as nothing but another gaffe cover and face saver popular discourse.
Hope I’m wrong

Edit: my first post. Forgot to say hi. Sorry
Hi all :)
 

Ruhnama

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Ideally Turkey would want to be able to integrate her indigenous weapons on to the new 40 F16-V70s and the 80 upgraded ones. Normally with limited access, we are able to introduce our weapons to the US planes as their US counterparts. (KGK as JSOW, HGK as JDAM, Gokdogan as Aim120-amraam etc).
If we can still do this all the merrier. Nothing changes. Status Quo
But there is the danger that if it doesn’t work as before; Then as well as having to get our weapons integrated at great costs , we would also release a lot of secret information to the third parties related to our weapons.
Export versions of our weapons, once the domestic needs are satisfied, will definitely be available to our close partners. Turkey has always been willing to sell weapons to her allies and friendly partner nations.
Turkish weaponry like missile and bomb that compatible with F16 and exported to other has good market share because many country use F16 but have some restriction or money to get US made weponry
 

Brokengineer

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Turkish FM has said that the decision on the sale of 40f16V70 planes and 80 upgtade kits being tied to Greek Airspace violation conditions is totally unacceptable. He has said that it is not possible to say yes to such a deal.
So will Turkey withdraw it’s request for this purchase?
That is the honourable thing to do. But do we have a plan B?
Eurofighter?
Rafale?
Ozgur configuration for all planes in hand?

The last paragraph has a very good point that needs to be discussed further.
Greeks complain about Aegean air space violations. But their planes have violated airspace over Turkish mainland many times. So why US is not capitulating the same to the Greeks about Turkish mainland airspace violations when they are selling planes and upgrade kits to them?
If the aim is completely move away from our fleet from american fighters, meaning conforting agreements with us government and LM, özgur configuration is the way.
If not, then uprading blk30s with özgur and keeping block 50s as they re and getting around 40 typhoons or rafales (although very hard to believe and expensive) is second option.
Even getting eastern 4th gen alternatives with our radars, avionics and munitions should be considered given how bad our relations go in terms of both politically and as we futher taking market away from our western counterpars in defense industry.

I think, Relying only american fighters is not an option anymore.
We need to find new partners for design and development of fighters, avionics, radar, electronic aerial warfare, anti submarine warfare and importanly engines and drivetrains.
 

Glass🚬

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I think, Relying only american fighters is not an option anymore.
We need to find new partners for design and development of fighters, avionics, radar, electronic aerial warfare, anti submarine warfare and importanly engines and drivetrains.

^thats why the strategic relationship with the uk is among the most important one for türkiye but its also necessary to develop new ones especially with the east and south east asia since there is the new focus of the world.
 

Khagan1923

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The Ministry of National Defense will sign an off-set agreement with Lockheed Martin for the procurement of F-16 Block 70 fighter jets. The agreement will be signed by the end of this year.

Turkey, through the Ministry of National Defense, had made a request to the United States for the procurement of 40 F-16 Block 70 aircraft and the modernization of 79 F-16 Block 40 and 50+ aircraft to Block 70 level. Within the scope of the said request, Letters of Request (LOR) were sent to the US Office of Defense and Cooperation (ODC-T) on May 25, 2022.


According to the information obtained, the Ministry of National Defense will sign an Off-Set Agreement with Lockheed Martin, the prime contractor company within the scope of the said procurement. The aim of the agreement is to increase the capabilities and capabilities of Turkish Defense Industry companies and their export rates in the international arena, to contribute to the development of the domestic and national defense industry and to reduce the negative impact on the balance of payments on behalf of Turkey.

Thanks to the off-set agreement to be signed, Lockheed Martin will be obliged to give work shares to Turkish defense industry companies in certain areas within the scope of the F-16 Block 70 sale. The agreement is planned to be signed by the end of this year.


---------------

What happened to the 80th plane to be modernized?
 

Khagan1923

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The Ministry of National Defense will sign an off-set agreement with Lockheed Martin for the procurement of F-16 Block 70 fighter jets. The agreement will be signed by the end of this year.

Turkey, through the Ministry of National Defense, had made a request to the United States for the procurement of 40 F-16 Block 70 aircraft and the modernization of 79 F-16 Block 40 and 50+ aircraft to Block 70 level. Within the scope of the said request, Letters of Request (LOR) were sent to the US Office of Defense and Cooperation (ODC-T) on May 25, 2022.


According to the information obtained, the Ministry of National Defense will sign an Off-Set Agreement with Lockheed Martin, the prime contractor company within the scope of the said procurement. The aim of the agreement is to increase the capabilities and capabilities of Turkish Defense Industry companies and their export rates in the international arena, to contribute to the development of the domestic and national defense industry and to reduce the negative impact on the balance of payments on behalf of Turkey.

Thanks to the off-set agreement to be signed, Lockheed Martin will be obliged to give work shares to Turkish defense industry companies in certain areas within the scope of the F-16 Block 70 sale. The agreement is planned to be signed by the end of this year.


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What happened to the 80th plane to be modernized?

In my opinion if this is happening the number of the modernized planes should have included all the Block 40,50 and 50+. If we are doing it we should do it right and modernize the whole fleet except the Block 30 which will undergo Özgür. The number of new Block 70 should have been upped too. 60-80 would have been a sweet spot.

I don't understand why they are not just doing the whole fleet or at least all the Block 50 and upwards aircrafts.

This would have given us 260 F-16V Block 70 of which around almost a 100 would be equipped with CFT greatly increasing their range.

Alas we can only hope that they were smart enough to include enough goodies in the package (AIM-120D, Legion/Sniper Pods and maybe even a great number of replacement engines to store.)

Either go all in or don't go in at all. Half arsed plans will get us no where.
 
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Yasar_TR

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heard Block40s also will go under Ozgur treatment.
If my logic and my memory are not deceiving me; 80 kits will cover the newest of our f16s. Since there is a 30 year limit on the planes for warranty etc, we will have the right to alter or add to them after this period. So….
~35 Block 30 planes are all over 30 years old. So they can be modernised to Ozgur. Most of the Block 40 planes are becoming 30 years old by 2025. So gradually they can be modernised in to Ozgur spec too. These cover the peace Onyx 1 deliveries.
The Peace Onyx 2,3 and 4 deliveries will cover the 80 planes we have which will become 30 years old at different times from 2027 to 2042. So these will need the purchased kits.
So the airforce will have all the ~270 planes with Aesa radars and v70 spec avionics.
The beautiful part of this will be the fact that all ~150 or so planes will have no contractual limitations hanging over them; But will have local Aesa radars and avionics on them.
Lets hope my logic is correct.

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MarcusZidanta

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Can TurAF use the F16 as a bomber aircraft?

TFX will replace current F16 fleet.
F35 was meant to replace F4 Terminators as bombers.
Can we use the F16 being replaced as bomber aircraft and retire F4?
 
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Ryder

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Can TurAF use the F16 as a bomber aircraft?

TFX will replace current F16 fleet.
F35 was meant to replace F4 Terminators as bombers.
Can we use the F16 being replaced as bomber aircraft and retire F4?

F16 XL was actually planned to be a bomber version of the F16 but it never made production.

I feel like the F16 can be turned into a bomber if we have the XL.

Which means its possible for the F16 to have a bomber role. If they configure it for the role.
 

Yasar_TR

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Can TurAF use the F16 as a bomber aircraft?

TFX will replace current F16 fleet.
F35 was meant to replace F4 Terminators as bombers.
Can we use the F16 being replaced as bomber aircraft and retire F4?
It all depends on what you understand from the terminology “bomber”.
If F4 2000 were bombers in your view with a 8400kg useful payload capacity, f16 planes with a maximum payload capacity of 7500 kg are not falling too far short of that understanding.
F35 in beast mode could handle 22000lb (10000kg) according to specifications. So they would have performed bombing sorties with more efficiency.
A true bomber is a plane that can carry any type of bomb in high numbers. Like B52 or B1.
With the introduction of smart bombs in to the battlefield however, planes like f16 or f15 which are originally made for air superiority missions, can be made to perform bombing missions. Hence multi purpose jet fighters. But these planes have a limited number of hard points on them to accommodate limited number of specific bombs. If the bomb is too big, the hard points on wings may not be suitable to carry them. This would restrict the number and type of bombs a fighter jet can carry. So bombing missions and planes’ configurations will have to be arranged accordingly.
 

MarcusZidanta

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It all depends on what you understand from the terminology “bomber”.
If F4 2000 were bombers in your view with a 8400kg useful payload capacity, f16 planes with a maximum payload capacity of 7500 kg are not falling too far short of that understanding.
F35 in beast mode could handle 22000lb (10000kg) according to specifications. So they would have performed bombing sorties with more efficiency.
A true bomber is a plane that can carry any type of bomb in high numbers. Like B52 or B1.
With the introduction of smart bombs in to the battlefield however, planes like f16 or f15 which are originally made for air superiority missions, can be made to perform bombing missions. Hence multi purpose jet fighters. But these planes have a limited number of hard points on them to accommodate limited number of specific bombs. If the bomb is too big, the hard points on wings may not be suitable to carry them. This would restrict the number and type of bombs a fighter jet can carry. So bombing missions and planes’ configurations will have to be arranged accordingly.
Do you think TurAF will use the F16s as bombers until a stealth bomber version of the TFX is released? This route seems most sensible, as F4s are really dangerous to fly, a south korean F4 recently crashed I think.

I don't see Turkey getting F35s even after Erdogan is gone.
 

B_A

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Do you think TurAF will use the F16s as bombers until a stealth bomber version of the TFX is released? This route seems most sensible, as F4s are really dangerous to fly, a south korean F4 recently crashed I think.

I don't see Turkey getting F35s even after Erdogan is gone.
Didn’t we use F-16 as bomber for 30 years?

until the drone came
 
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Do you think TurAF will use the F16s as bombers until a stealth bomber version of the TFX is released? This route seems most sensible, as F4s are really dangerous to fly, a south korean F4 recently crashed I think.

I don't see Turkey getting F35s even after Erdogan is gone.
Tbh F4 2020s are amazing when It comes to Air to ground missions.
 

I_Love_F16

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Do you think TurAF will use the F16s as bombers until a stealth bomber version of the TFX is released? This route seems most sensible, as F4s are really dangerous to fly, a south korean F4 recently crashed I think.

I don't see Turkey getting F35s even after Erdogan is gone.

What would be the point for Turkiye to have bombers when they already use UAV’s for that matter ? Also developing and maintaining bombers would be too costly.

They are already starting to use Akinci for Air-to-Ground missions. Later when Kizilelma will be ready they will progressively start to phase out the F-16’s for that role.

There is also a stealth bomber currently in development by TAI called TISU.
 

Zafer

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For the future: bomber, tanker, cargo, passenger planes can be made using the engines made for the TFX. 4 TFX engines can make any plane you want. We have all the infrastructure and people to make those planes.
 

Ryder

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What would be the point for Turkiye to have bombers when they already use UAV’s for that matter ? Also developing and maintaining bombers would be too costly.

They are already starting to use Akinci for Air-to-Ground missions. Later when Kizilelma will be ready they will progressively start to phase out the F-16’s for that role.

There is also a stealth bomber currently in development by TAI called TISU.

B52s, B1s and the Tupolevs are expensive as hell also very vulernable.

These behemoth bombers only make sense in a total war scenario or a situation where war is close to between two powerful nations.

B52s and B1s basically acted as a detterent force.

Im really thinking their time is coming. Has anybody notice how Russia barely used any of its bombers in the invasion of Ukraine.
 

Zafer

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We may need bomber size power projection where we need to deploy to medium distances like parts of Africa or Central Asia in short order.
 

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