TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Cenkcnk]

I hope these EF's will come to us. Relying on a non-existent airplane is a risky move. at least we will have another alternative in the time being.
Also stepping into the European fighter world can be a good move against US monopoly in TR.
Altay is getting late for a long time, TFX can be late too. We shouldn't take that risk

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442577483572944896

Erdogan has officially confirmed the interim plane purchase.
Also now expects a full-fledged embargo for the defense industry.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442577483572944896

Erdogan has officially confirmed the interim plane purchase.
Also now expects a full-fledged embargo for the defense industry.

@Cabatli_53 @Kartal1 @Anmdt @Zafer @Yasar @Combat-Master @Saithan @T-123456 @nakaFH @TheInsider

How about this

 

[TR_123456]

@Cabatli_53 @Kartal1 @Anmdt @Zafer @Yasar @Combat-Master @Saithan @T-123456 @nakaFH @TheInsider

How about this

Lets wait and see.

 

[TheInsider]

We should announce that we won't recognize any license limitations regarding US hardware if such sanctions pass. We should completely renew our F-16 fleet with Ozgur+national Aesa radar and buy a good amount of national AA missiles. All of the structural parts can be easily produced if we stop respecting license agreements and electronic parts will be replaced with Turkish hardware anyway.

 

[Saithan]

We should announce that we won't recognize any license limitations regarding US hardware if such sanctions pass. We should completely renew our F-16 fleet with Ozgur+national Aesa radar and buy a good amount of national AA missiles. All of the structural parts can be easily produced if we stop respecting license agreements and electronic parts will be replaced with Turkish hardware anyway.

I think the timing would be wrong and bad. I would prefer Hürjet with national engine flying in the skies before announcing any such thing. Current government likes to kick dirt in the machinery everytime the economy shows slightest recovery. So I expect similar bahavior (bad timing) from them in defence related issues as well.

Perhaps ordering more Hürkus with the option of changing it to Hürjet could be a "proof/boost" of intent ?

I would love to have our own engine in Hürkus tbh and see it's performance.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Τουρκική LoR για απόκτηση νέων F-16 και εκσυγχρονισμό υφιστάμενων μαχητικών - Defence Review

Ραγδαίες είναι οι εξελίξεις στη τουρκική αεροπορία, που αφορούν και την ισορροπία δυνάμεων με την Ελλάδα. Όπως όλα δείχνουν από το τουρκικό Υπουργείο Άμυνας εστάλη, στην αμερικανική κυβέρνηση, επιστολή Letter of Request (LoR) με στόχο την έγκριση-έκδοση Letter of Acceptance (LoA) με αντικείμενο...

defencereview.gr

Taken from “defence review.gr” , an interesting claim that Turkey has asked US for the purchase of 40 new F16V70 fighters and upgrading 80 of TurAF’s existing F16s to V70 level.
I don’t know the dependability of this site and the validity of the claim is open to discussion. Site being Greek it is somehow biased. But nevertheless worth thinking about. And the last paragraph draws a good straight forward logic about the US-Turkish relations of late.
It is odd that such request is supposedly sent to US when Turkey is in the process of activating it’s “Ozgur” project.

Quote:
Rapid are the developments in the Turkish air force, which also concern the balance of forces with Greece. As everything shows from the Turkish Ministry of Defense, a letter of Letter of Request (LoR) was sent to the American government with the aim of approving-issuance of Letter of Acceptance (LoA) regarding the acquisition of 40 new F-16 Block.70 (Viper) fighter aircraft as well as the modernization, at Viper level, of a total of 80 existing Turkish F-16s. It is a move coming from Turkey, obviously after the positive developments for Greece (F-16 upgrade, Rafale, Belh @ rra , defense agreement with France), as a reaction aimed at maintaining balance in the aviation sector.

On the other hand, it is a move to approach the USA, the final stance of which is of great interest to Greece. Will the US accept the request, but in return, given the presence of S-400s and US sanctions? Will they refuse, at the risk of leaving Turkey in Russia's arms? We remind you that the recent Erdogan-Putin meeting also raised the issue of acquiring Russian fighter jets for the Turkish Air Force. In any case, it is a strategically important move by Turkey and it remains to be seen what the US reaction will be.
Unquote.

 

[Cypro]

Τουρκική LoR για απόκτηση νέων F-16 και εκσυγχρονισμό υφιστάμενων μαχητικών - Defence Review

Ραγδαίες είναι οι εξελίξεις στη τουρκική αεροπορία, που αφορούν και την ισορροπία δυνάμεων με την Ελλάδα. Όπως όλα δείχνουν από το τουρκικό Υπουργείο Άμυνας εστάλη, στην αμερικανική κυβέρνηση, επιστολή Letter of Request (LoR) με στόχο την έγκριση-έκδοση Letter of Acceptance (LoA) με αντικείμενο...

defencereview.gr

Taken from “defence review.gr” , an interesting claim that Turkey has asked US for the purchase of 40 new F16V70 fighters and upgrading 80 of TurAF’s existing F16s to V70 level.
I don’t know the dependability of this site and the validity of the claim is open to discussion. Site being Greek it is somehow biased. But nevertheless worth thinking about. And the last paragraph draws a good straight forward logic about the US-Turkish relations of late.
It is odd that such request is supposedly sent to US when Turkey is in the process of activating it’s “Ozgur” project.

Quote:
Rapid are the developments in the Turkish air force, which also concern the balance of forces with Greece. As everything shows from the Turkish Ministry of Defense, a letter of Letter of Request (LoR) was sent to the American government with the aim of approving-issuance of Letter of Acceptance (LoA) regarding the acquisition of 40 new F-16 Block.70 (Viper) fighter aircraft as well as the modernization, at Viper level, of a total of 80 existing Turkish F-16s. It is a move coming from Turkey, obviously after the positive developments for Greece (F-16 upgrade, Rafale, Belh @ rra , defense agreement with France), as a reaction aimed at maintaining balance in the aviation sector.

On the other hand, it is a move to approach the USA, the final stance of which is of great interest to Greece. Will the US accept the request, but in return, given the presence of S-400s and US sanctions? Will they refuse, at the risk of leaving Turkey in Russia's arms? We remind you that the recent Erdogan-Putin meeting also raised the issue of acquiring Russian fighter jets for the Turkish Air Force. In any case, it is a strategically important move by Turkey and it remains to be seen what the US reaction will be.
Unquote.

Most logical thing to do is this (if US approves and agree to compensate F35 money). But it should include integration of Turkish systems and weapons to Vipers. 40 new 80 upgrade, and rest will be Ozgur (or Block 50+) and local production / assembly. If not, Eurofighter is the only candidate to fill the requirement until TFX. This deal could also secure engines for TFX and Hurjet (or include) But we all know US, even if they approve it will take years...

 

[Cenkcnk]

I hope we will buy block 70's or Eurofighters asap. But i do not trust USA at all

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Τουρκική LoR για απόκτηση νέων F-16 και εκσυγχρονισμό υφιστάμενων μαχητικών - Defence Review

Ραγδαίες είναι οι εξελίξεις στη τουρκική αεροπορία, που αφορούν και την ισορροπία δυνάμεων με την Ελλάδα. Όπως όλα δείχνουν από το τουρκικό Υπουργείο Άμυνας εστάλη, στην αμερικανική κυβέρνηση, επιστολή Letter of Request (LoR) με στόχο την έγκριση-έκδοση Letter of Acceptance (LoA) με αντικείμενο...

defencereview.gr

Taken from “defence review.gr” , an interesting claim that Turkey has asked US for the purchase of 40 new F16V70 fighters and upgrading 80 of TurAF’s existing F16s to V70 level.
I don’t know the dependability of this site and the validity of the claim is open to discussion. Site being Greek it is somehow biased. But nevertheless worth thinking about. And the last paragraph draws a good straight forward logic about the US-Turkish relations of late.
It is odd that such request is supposedly sent to US when Turkey is in the process of activating it’s “Ozgur” project.

Quote:
Rapid are the developments in the Turkish air force, which also concern the balance of forces with Greece. As everything shows from the Turkish Ministry of Defense, a letter of Letter of Request (LoR) was sent to the American government with the aim of approving-issuance of Letter of Acceptance (LoA) regarding the acquisition of 40 new F-16 Block.70 (Viper) fighter aircraft as well as the modernization, at Viper level, of a total of 80 existing Turkish F-16s. It is a move coming from Turkey, obviously after the positive developments for Greece (F-16 upgrade, Rafale, Belh @ rra , defense agreement with France), as a reaction aimed at maintaining balance in the aviation sector.

On the other hand, it is a move to approach the USA, the final stance of which is of great interest to Greece. Will the US accept the request, but in return, given the presence of S-400s and US sanctions? Will they refuse, at the risk of leaving Turkey in Russia's arms? We remind you that the recent Erdogan-Putin meeting also raised the issue of acquiring Russian fighter jets for the Turkish Air Force. In any case, it is a strategically important move by Turkey and it remains to be seen what the US reaction will be.
Unquote.

I wonder if it's true, how did this site get this information? They did not specify any source for the news, but the figures mentioned are very logical and well calculated.

According to the news, 80 F16 inside 163 CCIP configurations are required to be upgraded to V configuration. It says 40 new F16V's were also requested.

80 upgraded F16V
40 new F16 Block 70
29 F16 Block 50+
83 CCIP F16
35 F16 Block30

In other words, it seems that 83+35 F16 Block30/40 aircrafts are being considered for the Özgür program.

Tayyip Erdogan said in the last program, "They will either give our aircrafts or our money". It is possible that this way was used to obtain the money paid to the F35. Since it isn't possible to return back to the f35 program, What the President means by "our aircrafts" may be these orders, which are requested and subject to permission of US authority.

 

[Khagan1923]

I wonder if it's true, how did this site get this information? They did not specify any source for the news, but the figures mentioned are very logical and well calculated.

According to the news, 80 F16 inside 163 CCIP configurations are required to be upgraded to V configuration. It says 40 new F16V's were also requested.

80 upgraded F16V
40 new F16 Block 70
29 F16 Block 50+
83 CCIP F16
35 F16 Block30

In other words, it seems that 83+35 F16 Block30/40 aircrafts are being considered for the Özgür program.

Tayyip Erdogan said in the last program, "They will either give our aircrafts or our money". It is possible that this way was used to obtain the money paid to the F35. Since it isn't possible to return back to the f35 program, What the President means by "our aircrafts" may be these orders, which are requested and subject to permission of US authority.

I don't believe it. We have around 100 Block 50+ and Block 52 Aircrafts. Why not order a package for all of them, why limit the number to 80 and leave out 20 aircrafts? Also I don't see the Air Force green lighting a request for 40 new F-16 Block 70/72 before putting in a request for F-15TA.

I think the Air Force would rather have 24 F-15TA than 40 new F-16.

If they had said Turkey wants to upgrade its block 50+/52 into Block 70/72 I would give it some probability. But ordering 40 newly build F-16? While the Line is full? No.

Also how would a greek site know about this before our own "insiders" got their hands on it.

Stinks from all directions.

Also ordering new F-16s would be to admit defeat in the F-35 case.

And as much as people here like to shit on it the Air Force and the Navy still want their F-35.

 

[Cenkcnk]

It can be a justification for buying Russian stuff. "We asked for it and you rejected, and now we have to buy from somewhere else" then let the Sukhoi's flow

 

[Cypro]

It can be a justification for buying Russian stuff. "We asked for it and you rejected, and now we have to buy from somewhere else" then let the Sukhoi's flow

Yes "We wanted, they didn't give so we have no choice" but this time things are different, air defence is another thing. Even RTE would not buy Russian crap unless blackmailed by Ruskies. Russia is not a friend of Turkey and never will be, how many times we will see the examples. And all experts are against Russian planes and infrastructure, waiting for tfx is more logical than buying some Sukhois. Cheapest, fastest and most logical thing is choosing more F16s.

 

[Bogeyman]

Yes "We wanted, they didn't give so we have no choice" but this time things are different, air defence is another thing. Even RTE would not buy Russian crap unless blackmailed by Ruskies. Russia is not a friend of Turkey and never will be, how many times we will see the examples. And all experts are against Russian planes and infrastructure, waiting for tfx is more logical than buying some Sukhois. Cheapest, fastest and most logical thing is choosing more F16s.

Claiming that the US is more reliable than the Russians is typical of the mandate mentality.
It can be said the other way around. The more reliable the USA, the more reliable it is in Russia.
I don't see any difference between the 2 of them. Some of our friends seem to have forgotten the Johnson letter during the Cyprus Peace Operation. "You cannot use the defense products you bought from the USA against GKRY". You must love(!) to hear such things from the USA. What are we going to do when we go to war with Greece? Are we going to burn the license agreement we got from the USA?

 

[Saithan]

I don't think either of them are reliable which is why I want our own engine to be delivered and use on all our products, failuing to using them is treason. imo.

 

[Manomed]

Τουρκική LoR για απόκτηση νέων F-16 και εκσυγχρονισμό υφιστάμενων μαχητικών - Defence Review

Ραγδαίες είναι οι εξελίξεις στη τουρκική αεροπορία, που αφορούν και την ισορροπία δυνάμεων με την Ελλάδα. Όπως όλα δείχνουν από το τουρκικό Υπουργείο Άμυνας εστάλη, στην αμερικανική κυβέρνηση, επιστολή Letter of Request (LoR) με στόχο την έγκριση-έκδοση Letter of Acceptance (LoA) με αντικείμενο...

defencereview.gr

Taken from “defence review.gr” , an interesting claim that Turkey has asked US for the purchase of 40 new F16V70 fighters and upgrading 80 of TurAF’s existing F16s to V70 level.
I don’t know the dependability of this site and the validity of the claim is open to discussion. Site being Greek it is somehow biased. But nevertheless worth thinking about. And the last paragraph draws a good straight forward logic about the US-Turkish relations of late.
It is odd that such request is supposedly sent to US when Turkey is in the process of activating it’s “Ozgur” project.

Quote:
Rapid are the developments in the Turkish air force, which also concern the balance of forces with Greece. As everything shows from the Turkish Ministry of Defense, a letter of Letter of Request (LoR) was sent to the American government with the aim of approving-issuance of Letter of Acceptance (LoA) regarding the acquisition of 40 new F-16 Block.70 (Viper) fighter aircraft as well as the modernization, at Viper level, of a total of 80 existing Turkish F-16s. It is a move coming from Turkey, obviously after the positive developments for Greece (F-16 upgrade, Rafale, Belh @ rra , defense agreement with France), as a reaction aimed at maintaining balance in the aviation sector.

On the other hand, it is a move to approach the USA, the final stance of which is of great interest to Greece. Will the US accept the request, but in return, given the presence of S-400s and US sanctions? Will they refuse, at the risk of leaving Turkey in Russia's arms? We remind you that the recent Erdogan-Putin meeting also raised the issue of acquiring Russian fighter jets for the Turkish Air Force. In any case, it is a strategically important move by Turkey and it remains to be seen what the US reaction will be.
Unquote.

If we can get 40 B70s greek rafales will be no problem tbh I hope It is real

 

[Manomed]

I don't believe it. We have around 100 Block 50+ and Block 52 Aircrafts. Why not order a package for all of them, why limit the number to 80 and leave out 20 aircrafts? Also I don't see the Air Force green lighting a request for 40 new F-16 Block 70/72 before putting in a request for F-15TA.

I think the Air Force would rather have 24 F-15TA than 40 new F-16.

If they had said Turkey wants to upgrade its block 50+/52 into Block 70/72 I would give it some probability. But ordering 40 newly build F-16? While the Line is full? No.

Also how would a greek site know about this before our own "insiders" got their hands on it.

Stinks from all directions.

Also ordering new F-16s would be to admit defeat in the F-35 case.

And as much as people here like to shit on it the Air Force and the Navy still want their F-35.

But having F-15s means new logistical line We already have a good logistical line for the F-16s That would be faster to get I agree with you F-15 is a better jet But we gotta think about logistics

 

[Yasar_TR]

It is also important to consider the now forgotten rule of 7/10 ratio.
US will not over arm Turkey against Greece. Biden is a a lover of Greece. F15 will tip the balance.
But what Turkey is supposedly asking in this news is feasible and doable.
If US rejects such a request then the true colours are revealed. And Turkey gets closer to Russia.
If accepted, then the supply of engines for the 4++ version of TFX becomes more probable.

 

[mulj]

I would take money first if possible. This is just salvaging deal.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I would take money first if possible. This is just salvaging deal.

Yes but;
Erdogan already spelled it out that they either give us the planes or our money.
But, having planes shows if US still wants to work with us or otherwise, they are totally on the other side of the fence.