TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[boredaf]

Yes, Turkiye and Hungary are a problem for NATO. Is this US-Sweden defence accord an effective workaround to mitigate the problem?

I am interested in the 5G projects of various countries. TuAF needs fighters. KAAN needs F110 engines. Given that the chances of F-16 or Eurofighter being cleared for export look extremely poor, how careful does the Turkish government need to be with its policies to avoid a deterioration in relations with the US to the point where F110 supply is refused, too? Perhaps a multi-year delay in KAAN being delivered would be a price Erdogan would be prepared to pay.

I find it funny that in your mind it is always Türkiye that is the problem, not our supposed "allies" that blackmail us by keeping our own security as hostage to further their agendas.

 

[Afif]

Yes, Turkiye and Hungary are a problem for NATO. Is this US-Sweden defence accord an effective workaround to mitigate the problem?

I am interested in the 5G projects of various countries. TuAF needs fighters. KAAN needs F110 engines. Given that the chances of F-16 or Eurofighter being cleared for export look extremely poor, how careful does the Turkish government need to be with its policies to avoid a deterioration in relations with the US to the point where F110 supply is refused, too? Perhaps a multi-year delay in KAAN being delivered would be a price Erdogan would be prepared to pay.

Well……I used to share some of these 'logical' concerns. But ultimately what I learned is, no matter what Turks are going to make it out in the end. They need Western cooperation, until they don’t need it anymore.

From where Turkish defence industry stands today, it is no longer possible to hold it back. Yes, 'allies' may be able to delay some of the projects with unofficial sanctions, but in my experience, in the end it hurts their interest more than it hurts Türkiye. Not only they looses valuable export opportunities, but also, the leverage that one can hold with joint projects and joint supply chains. Not to mention, consequentially Türkiye becomes more assertive with it policies thanks to the ever increasing level of indigenisation.

So, in current situation it may looks like West hold the leverage in this negotiation, but they probably don’t, not decisively.

 

[Spitfire9]

I find it funny that in your mind it is always Türkiye that is the problem, not our supposed "allies" that blackmail us by keeping our own security as hostage to further their agendas.

I don't follow NATO matters closely but when I do hear of problems with a member, it is often Turkiye rather than any other member. I guess there are probably some reports of problems with Hungary - apart from Sweden joining NATO - that I have not read. Does NATO have significant problems with any other members?

 

[TheInsider]

Yes, Turkiye and Hungary are a problem for NATO. Is this US-Sweden defence accord an effective workaround to mitigate the problem?

I am interested in the 5G projects of various countries. TuAF needs fighters. KAAN needs F110 engines. Given that the chances of F-16 or Eurofighter being cleared for export look extremely poor, how careful does the Turkish government need to be with its policies to avoid a deterioration in relations with the US to the point where F110 supply is refused, too? Perhaps a multi-year delay in KAAN being delivered would be a price Erdogan would be prepared to pay.

Lol the US has more to lose in that bargain. There is an economic and later will be a military fight between the US and China that will decide who will be the top dog. Can the US win that fight by turning Turkiye into an enemy? EU has done nothing against Russia and surely has no appetite to fight China. Once the US loses its number one status there will be a long queue to kick the US in the balls. This is not the 90s when the US reigns supreme, stakes are getting higher and the US has everything to lose.

 

[Ryder]

Yes, Turkiye and Hungary are a problem for NATO. Is this US-Sweden defence accord an effective workaround to mitigate the problem?

I am interested in the 5G projects of various countries. TuAF needs fighters. KAAN needs F110 engines. Given that the chances of F-16 or Eurofighter being cleared for export look extremely poor, how careful does the Turkish government need to be with its policies to avoid a deterioration in relations with the US to the point where F110 supply is refused, too? Perhaps a multi-year delay in KAAN being delivered would be a price Erdogan would be prepared to pay.

Turkish defence industry is working 24/7 in leaving both American and European dependance.

If Turkiye is going to do go with an independant destiny it will not lean on any camp.

I do wish Turkiye joined the Non aligned movement rather than Nato.

Turkiye would have got nuclear weapons by now just like Pakistan and India got it.

 

[Spitfire9]

Lol the US has more to lose in that bargain. There is an economic and later will be a military fight between the US and China that will decide who will be the top dog. Can the US win that fight by turning Turkiye into an enemy? EU has done nothing against Russia and surely has no appetite to fight China. Once the US loses its number one status there will be a long queue to kick the US in the balls. This is not the 90s when the US reigns supreme, stakes are getting higher and the US has everything to lose.

You are quite wrong about the EU. It has provided tens of billions of dollars in military aid, along with UK and Norway. It was EU countries that were pressing the US to allow US kit that the European countries owned to be supplied to Ukraine, only for that to be delayed by the US. You are doubtless aware that the EU has proposed a package of aid of $50 billion plus, currently blocked by Hungary.

I agree with you about China. I can't see the EU getting much involved militarily if China attacks Taiwan. How many carriers do the Europeans have? Three 'proper' carriers, I think.

The US will be eclipsed economically in the next few decades, I agree. Militarily not for a very long time, I think. It has the best technology and spends a high proportion of GDP on defence.

 

[ClaudeJ]

Germany blocks Eurofighter sale to Türkiye 'citing Eastmed drilling concerns'​

ANKARA​

Germany, a key member of the quartet consortium producing the Eurofighter Typhoon, is reportedly hesitatant to sell the advanced jets to Türkiye, citing concerns over the latter's natural gas drilling activities in the eastern Mediterranean, according to sources in local media.

Berlin's reluctance stems from decisions made by the EU Council in 2019, during a crisis between Türkiye and Greece, where sanctions were imposed on Ankara over its exploration activities in the eastern Mediterranean, showcasing the EU's support for Cyprus.

Last week, Türkiye's Defense Minister Yaşar Güler declared the nation's intention to acquire Eurofighter jets, opting for them over the controversial F-35s from the United States. This decision follows Türkiye's expulsion from the F-35 program in 2019, making the modernization of the country's air force a top priority.

Güler said Türkiye aims to purchase 40 Eurofighters, asserting that the U.K. and Spain have committed to persuading Germany to agree to the deal. The Eurofighter is a collaborative effort involving Germany, the U.K., Spain and Italy.

Sources suggest that diplomatic tensions between NATO allies and Türkiye, exacerbated by the latter's acquisition of Russian S-400 missile systems, contribute significantly to Germany's decision. President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's recent condemnation of Israel as a "terrorist state" further complicates matters, as reported by Bloomberg.

Erdoğan, on his return from a recent trip to Germany, stated that he and Chancellor Olaf Scholz had not discussed the Eurofighter procurement. Erdoğan remarked, "They can give us these planes if they want. If not, do we have no doors to knock on? So many."

In another development, Türkiye and the United Kingdom have signed a blueprint to deepen security and defense ties. British Defense Minister Grant Shapps, during his visit to Ankara on Nov. 23, engaged in discussions with his Turkish counterpart on regional and security matters, along with ongoing cooperation in the defense industry.

Germany had previously criticized Turkish military operations in northern Syria, suspended the modernization of Leopard tanks in Turkish possession and halted the sale of tanks.

Similarly, Germany's attitude affected Türkiye's Altay tank project, with plans to involve a German company for the tanks' engines put on hold, citing concerns related to operations in Syria.

Meanwhile, despite Türkiye's official request to purchase 40 new F-16s and 79 modernization kits from the U.S. as an alternative to the F-35, formal approval from the Congress remains pending, facing objections that have slowed down the process.

Germany blocks Eurofighter sale to Türkiye 'citing Eastmed drilling concerns' - Türkiye News

Germany, a key member of the quartet consortium producing the Eurofighter Typhoon, is reportedly hesitatant to sell the advanced jets to Türkiye, citing concerns over the latter's natural gas drilling activities in the eastern Mediterranean, according to sources in local media.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

__________________________________________

Told you guys, so unless we see the other partners buying out Germany from the consortium then we're not getting EF.

But the buyout would be a very interesting thing to see. IF it ever happens, and I don't think Europe is ready to break cooperation on that level.

Agitators masquerading as press professionals are using clickbait titles again. Their actual job seems to gather comments and visits rather than providing actual facts.
"reportedly hesitatant" ("hesitant" probably) is different than "blocking", a term that implies a firm negation, in my dictionary.

Negotiation tactics make the so-called "press" spray emotionally loaded articles like wildfire. It's nothing but a soap opera show.

One is leveraging new members' adhesion to NATO while the other is leveraging its veto to acquire a weapon system.

Don't be puppets, use your own brain


In my opinion*, Türkiye doesn't need a stop-gap aircraft in the waiting for home-produced fighters. I'm convinced it won't take long before we see homemade Turkish last-gen fighters in flight.

Meanwhile, as any other NATO member, despite all the ambivalent rhetoric politicians like to throw at their public, Türkiye is part of a coalition. As such, NATO forces will be deployed if need be. Remember ACE Guard eg.


*a formulation that bloggers, "experts" and even self-declared journalists should use more often if they ever find their long-lost humility.

 

[Zafer]

In my opinion*, Türkiye doesn't need a stop-gap aircraft in the waiting for home-produced fighters. I'm convinced it won't take long before we see homemade Turkish last-gen fighters in flight.

Most likely

 

[BaburKhan]

In my opinion*, Türkiye doesn't need a stop-gap aircraft in the waiting for home-produced fighters. I'm convinced it won't take long before we see homemade Turkish last-gen fighters in flight.

Meanwhile, as any other NATO member, despite all the ambivalent rhetoric politicians like to throw at their public, Türkiye is part of a coalition. As such, NATO forces will be deployed if need be. Remember ACE Guard eg.

What when the so called Allies sie in real the biggest Enemys ? They want to establish Kurdistan in SE Turkey, bigger Armenia, denn the Right for Oil Exploration etc.

 

[Huelague]

Yes, Turkiye and Hungary are a problem for NATO. Is this US-Sweden defence accord an effective workaround to mitigate the problem?

No! USA is the problem for EU. And we all know this. There is a reason why EU wants to separate from NATO and build an EU army.

 

[Huelague]

TuAF needs fighters. KAAN needs F110 engines. Given that the chances of F-16 or Eurofighter being cleared for export look extremely poor, how careful does the Turkish government need to be with its policies to avoid a deterioration in relations with the US to the point where F110 supply is refused, too? Perhaps a multi-year delay in KAAN being delivered would be a price Erdogan would be prepared to pay.

TSK has needed many things like tanks, 5.G fighter jets, corvetts, frigattes, drones, ADS etc..and now look where we are and will be in the future.

 

[BaburKhan]

No! USA is the problem for EU. And we all know this. There is a reason why EU wants to separate from NATO and build an EU army.

Bear in mind the US need to focus it's Resources on China in the Pacific, for this Reason EU need to aggitate more on their own.

If this EU Army become Reallity, it will be big Threat for Turkey in any Event of an Aegean/Cyprus War. We can inflict heavy losses to them, but I see no real Chance for Victory in a conventional War.

At the end we need to follow a strategy like Pakistan do or like NATO if they were overwhelmed by Warsaw Pact and thrown back to Rhine.

 

[Huelague]

I find it funny that in your mind it is always Türkiye that is the problem, not our supposed "allies" that blackmail us by keeping our own security as hostage to further their agendas.

The facking mankind sees US as the bigges global threat, but our 'English Man in N.Y. pretend Türkiye is the problem. Nice try

 

[Huelague]

Bear in mind the US need to focus it's Resources on China in the Pacific, for this Reason EU need to aggitate more on their own.

If this EU Army become Reallity, it will be big Threat for Turkey in any Event of an Aegean/Cyprus War. We can inflict heavy losses to them, but I see no real Chance for Victory in a conventional War.

At the end we need to follow a strategy like Pakistan do or like NATO if they were overwhelmed by Warsaw Pact and thrown back to Rhine.

Dont worry, EU army will not come soon. Remember Macron speech about China and US. One week later, we have seen riots all over France. US will prevent any move in that direction.

 

[Huelague]

I don't follow NATO matters closely but when I do hear of problems with a member, it is often Turkiye rather than any other member. I guess there are probably some reports of problems with Hungary - apart from Sweden joining NATO - that I have not read. Does NATO have significant problems with any other members?

You listen western media, right? Do you remember Trumps speech about European Nato members?

 

[Huelague]

You are quite wrong about the EU. It has provided tens of billions of dollars in military aid, along with UK and Norway. It was EU countries that were pressing the US to allow US kit that the European countries owned to be supplied to Ukraine, only for that to be delayed by the US. You are doubtless aware that the EU has proposed a package of aid of $50 billion plus, currently blocked by Hungary.

Read about UK, Germany and France stockpiles, how long they last in a direct confrontation with Russia.

 

[Spitfire9]

I don

The facking mankind sees US as the bigges global threat, but our 'English Man in N.Y. pretend Türkiye is the problem. Nice try

I don't like NATO principally because it is dominated by the US. So much for the Englishman in NY.

Regarding Turkiye being a problem for NATO, do people in Turkiye not notice that almost no other NATO members are in open conflict with the organisation? If Turkiye is at odds with nearly all other members of NATO over Sweden joining, why not just leave instead of disrupting the organisation?

Due to Turkiye's view of Israel being so different to that of the US, yes, I think it is a good idea for Turkiye to supply its air force with home-grown systems rather than US systems.

 

[Spitfire9]

You listen western media, right? Do you remember Trumps speech about European Nato members?

Yes, I do. And he was correct in pointing out that most European countries were not honouring their commitment to spend 2% GDP on defence.

 

[BaburKhan]

Dont worry, EU army will not come soon. Remember Macron speech about China and US. One week later, we have seen riots all over France. US will prevent any move in that direction.

It's a possible Threat and there is still existing a mutual Defence Clause in the EU since 2009 and this Clause also Cover over Sea Terretories like Ceuta and Mellila.

BTW: Never underestimate your Enemy !

Some also thought EU Citizen could not accept Restrictions on their Prosperity, but what we see since the beginning of Ukraine War ? They allready live with this Inflation and decrease of Prosperity !

Turkey need to be prepared for this Kind of Scenario with EU !

 

[Huelague]

I don

I don't like NATO principally because it is dominated by the US. So much for the Englishman in NY.

Regarding Turkiye being a problem for NATO, do people in Turkiye not notice that almost no other NATO members are in open conflict with the organisation? If Turkiye is at odds with nearly all other members of NATO over Sweden joining, why not just leave instead of disrupting the organisation?

Due to Turkiye's view of Israel being so different to that of the US, yes, I think it is a good idea for Turkiye to supply its air force with home-grown systems rather than US systems.

Again, read what Trump said about European NATO members. And remember what US did to his 'allies' in Afghanistan and Syria. Bombed the infrastructur of German energy supply (war case). But we are the problem.