TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[B_A]

400?



Do not forget that Turkey is working on network-centric warfare, and fighter jets are not the only asset. We are talking about drones of various types ranging from TB-3, ANKA-1/3-4, and Kizilelma that work jointly with the future kAAN. Turkey is operating almost 250 F-16s, and many of them will perhaps be way too old to operate by 2030-2035 ( not sure about the timeframe) which means that the KAAN will be the backbone of the Air force. Even 500, 5-generation fighter jets is a massive number that neither China or Russia has accomplished so far.

Taiwanese had 130 F-16+60 Mirage 2000+130 F-CK-1+some F-5 + 66 F16V(ordered)=400 JET


Chinese had 1400+ 4-generation fighter jets ,their 5-generation fighters just face some problem,finallt they will have 800+5-generation fighters

 

[B_A]

You are probably aware that 800 combat jets are not something Turkiye, or any European country, could actually sustain long term.

Even Taiwanese can sustain 300+ Jets at long term.Korean is 400+

Republic of Korea Air Force - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In korean and japanese case they had much expensive F-15s

 

[infrared]

"Even Taiwan" bro the currently decreasing gdp difference is only 30 percent.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Even Taiwanese can sustain 300+ Jets at long term.Korean is 400+

Republic of Korea Air Force - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In korean and japanese case they had much expensive F-15s

Bro Taiwan has China as an immediate danger threat, with more than 1000+ fighter planes as opponents. They generate their income from the chip industry, especially through TSMC.
USA gives them very high discounts, and help them underhand with maintenance & support, almost the whole electronics world is produced there chip wise.
If Taiwan falls to China, the entire chip industry in the USA & the world will fall into China's hands.
South Korea's opponent is North Korea, which, together with China, also has nuclear weapons. In contrast to Russia, which has the good sense not to use these weapons even in times of war.
North Korea has no inhibitions about using them as a first strike if it were to attack South Korea.
Even the Russians have the fear of God and morals, which the Chinese and North Koreans do not have.
For them, a human life is worth nothing, you only have to see how they treat their own people and now transfer this to foreign people, God save the country that would be attacked by the two countries, the previous war criminals in the world would look more like a joke then.

The location of Turkey with Greece, Russia & Iran as opponents is a joke in comparison.
Iran & Russia dare not attack a NATO country, it would be their death sentence.
That leaves only Greece....and they simply don't have the capacity to keep up in the long term.
The USA won't sponsor them indefinitely just because they get anxiety attacks

 

[B_A]

"Even Taiwan" bro the currently decreasing gdp difference is only 30 percent.

Everyone know our economy is too bad these years and taiwanese were in their best time.In 2013 gdp difference was 45 percent and the projected GDP difference will be 40 percent in 2028

Taiwanese had only less than 1/4 population of us and very aged.We will have at least 2 times GDP much than taiwanese 10 years later.

Also I think in the future Turkish air force will united with Azerbaycan or other Turkic countries to become the Air Force of Turkic Union.

Bro Taiwan has China as an immediate danger threat, with more than 1000+ fighter planes as opponents. They generate their income from the chip industry, especially through TSMC.
USA gives them very high discounts, and help them underhand with maintenance & support, almost the whole electronics world is produced there chip wise.
If Taiwan falls to China, the entire chip industry in the USA & the world will fall into China's hands.
South Korea's opponent is North Korea, which, together with China, also has nuclear weapons. In contrast to Russia, which has the good sense not to use these weapons even in times of war.
North Korea has no inhibitions about using them as a first strike if it were to attack South Korea.
Even the Russians have the fear of God and morals, which the Chinese and North Koreans do not have.
For them, a human life is worth nothing, you only have to see how they treat their own people and now transfer this to foreign people, God save the country that would be attacked by the two countries, the previous war criminals in the world would look more like a joke then.

The location of Turkey with Greece, Russia & Iran as opponents is a joke in comparison.
Iran & Russia dare not attack a NATO country, it would be their death sentence.
That leaves only Greece....and they simply don't have the capacity to keep up in the long term.
The USA won't sponsor them indefinitely just because they get anxiety attacks

Yes

Anyway that depend on our economy,If we have a GDP per capita much than 28000USD within 10 years we can have 800 JETs,If only less than 18000 we can only about 300-400.

 

[dBSPL]

@IC3M@N FX bro, the examples of Taiwan and Korea are closer to the examples of the Turkish air force during the cold war. I mean, both the NATO nuclear arsenal was deployed in TR and special assistance was provided by the US in terms of technical capabilities such as high-altitude long-range fighter jets that could intercept bombers, etc. during the years when Soviet harassment increased from time to time. Of course, these were not gratuitous and what they brought or took away is a separate discussion.

Contrary to the counter-examples you gave, today Turkiye's threat perception is not uni-axial. It is more multifaceted than ever. This is also related to Turkiye's need to maintain sufficient hard power to prioritize its interests and, in the broader scheme of things, to build its own center of power. Without moving from a position of contested equilibrium to kind of absolute imposed dominance, you can maintain your foreign policy interests within certain limits. To be sure of this, one only needs to look at our allies on paper. Our on paper allies are a source of worry for friends and confidence for enemies.

In conclusion, I agree with the view that it is time for both air power and naval power to spread their wings. We already have this technically, and in terms of staff capabilities, but now we need to reinforce it quantitatively. We are a Army Country, throughout history. Everytime we embrace this reality, has always carried this country forward. I am not talking about being an aggressive country waging wars left and right. It is to be a country that relies more on hard power in the foreign policy arena. The answer to the question of whether the country's economy can carry this size lies in this; Turkish army can carry the Turkish economy too.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

No, no he isn't, a lot of people unfortunately live in a Red Alert 2 kind of reality.

Oh , No no isnt ,, while u and some others that want Turkiye to buy 4 Tf 2000or 4 I class that are enough(according to some) and 100 Kaans fighters are so glad with 23 billion to give USA for 40 f16 thats his time is over (time for 5gen fighters)
and 79 upgrades of older f16 .
And USA with that money to give free weapons to greece / israel / ukraine zionism regimes .
First Turkiye should ask tongive back money that we sent for f35 , thats Turkish peoples money .
Second no weapon from USA or others should be bought while out industry is building our own weapons.
Turkiye should buy another S400 sytem long range and show middle finger to USA . If Turkiye do that order 23 billion it will be huge mistake that people never forget and forgive

 

[boredaf]

Oh , No no isnt ,, while u and some others that want Turkiye to buy 4 Tf 2000or 4 I class that are enough(according to some) and 100 Kaans fighters are so glad with 23 billion to give USA for 40 f16 thats his time is over (time for 5gen fighters)
and 79 upgrades of older f16 .
And USA with that money to give free weapons to greece / israel / ukraine zionism regimes .
First Turkiye should ask tongive back money that we sent for f35 , thats Turkish peoples money .
Second no weapon from USA or others should be bought while out industry is building our own weapons.
Turkiye should buy another S400 sytem long range and show middle finger to USA . If Turkiye do that order 23 billion it will be huge mistake that people never forget and forgive

You are so misinformed and/or ignorant that you truly do not deserve a response or any kind of reaction other than this one.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Those numbers include every single aircraft in service, starting from ab initio trainers to SAR helos, transports, other assets etc. its not just fighters.

Again, 800 fighters are just fantasy numbers nowadays. It's not 1960s anymore.

Of course, that's unless you want to go fight Greek Rafales with SF 260 trainer. Have fun with that

Thats only airforce branch and its aircrafts . Every single aircraft of whole (Turkiye military) is 1100+ aircrafts . Only airforce has some 600 if i am correct thats why is not in that top 10

 

[I_Love_F16]

Turkiye should buy another S400 sytem long range and show middle finger to USA

Yeah, we should buy another S400 system and leave it in a hangar like the first one.

 

[Spitfire9]

I have a question:

Let's say the procurement budget of TurAF for the next 20 years is $X Billion dollars. Out of this:

$ 20 billion goes to F-16V
$ 7-10 billion for Eurofighters
$ 7-10 billion for F-35s

How much will be left to complete the development of TFX and its engine after you have taken out some 40 billion dollars from your procurement budget and spent it on not one but 3 different combat aircraft?

Even if you could somehow do all of this, how many TFX are you gonna be able to actually procure with whatever is left?

At this point, I'm starting to believe that buying anything other than F-16 kits creates an unacceptable financial risk for the TFX.

Maybe that is the intent here.

Is the block on EF supply being lifted? I reckon that Turkiye should establish the answer.

If EF supply to Turkiye can be unblocked, what about just buying the F-16 kits and Eurofighters? I don't recall which Eurofighter partner country is allocated marketing to Turkiye. If it is the UK, UK assembly work is drying up. I think that there are only about 10 aircraft left to assemble. Very different to the F-16 assembly line backlog.

 

[Sanchez]

I don't recall which Eurofighter partner country is allocated marketing to Turkiye.

It used to be Italy 15 years ago. Probably would be UK now.

Is the block on EF supply being lifted?

As far as we know, Turkey hasn't yet officially requested to by EF2000, so there's no actual blockage, just that Germany was being "unhelpful".

 

[Spitfire9]

It used to be Italy 15 years ago. Probably would be UK now.


As far as we know, Turkey hasn't yet officially requested to by EF2000, so there's no actual blockage, just that Germany was being "unhelpful".

It could be useful to find out for sure if Eurofighter can be supplied. If so

- LM does not have a potential captive customer (so cannot charge highest price)
- political risk of future supply cuts is altered (possibly lower than with US)
- Eurofighter delivery may be much faster than F-16 delivery

 

[Saithan]

TuAF fleet of jets are old. An considering we’re 79 of them needs an upgrade kit I’d say their usefulness is not very high. Those that are in the Özgür program are similar.

So how many F-16 do we actually have that we’re happy with ?

F-16.net - The ultimate F-16, F-35 and F-22 reference

www.f-16.net

240 of the F16 are from mid-late 90’s

which means they’re 25 years old or more. That doesn’t leave us much.

while the numbers I gave may have been exaggerated, if you write of the old jets the numbers come down.

The point is to continue building jet forever. You can always sell them or station them elsewhere. Friendly Nations needing a hand in patrol duty etc.

There are a lot of options, if we’re willing to take the risk.

 

[DBdev]

Yeah, we should buy another S400 system and leave it in a hangar like the first one.

Turkish s400 is active and protecting the Turkish capital against nuclear ballistic missiles, stealth air planes, cruise missiles with nukes that can come when we all are sleeping. It is located in Mürted airport and it is very much active all the time. There are pictures of the radar spinning next to barracks in the airport. It is not 100% but definitely better than nothing or having some fully American controlled F35s with fake Turkish flag plastered over it.

Istanbul, other cities are still all open to nuclear attacks. Range:

Turkey’s S-400 “Growler” Goes Operational Near Ankara - T-Intelligence

Turkey’s newly acquired S-400 air defense system (NATO Reporting name SA-21 Growler) is now operational at Mürted Akinci airfield, an Israeli geospatial company claims. Satellite imagery, which was shared by ImageSatIntel (iSi) on Twitter, shows the S-400 battery components in an operational...

t-intell.com

 

[_Mu_]

Europe: selected tactical combat aircraft, 2022
Source: THE MILITARY BALANCE 2023

 

[hawk21]

Is the block on EF supply being lifted? I reckon that Turkiye should establish the answer.

If EF supply to Turkiye can be unblocked, what about just buying the F-16 kits and Eurofighters? I don't recall which Eurofighter partner country is allocated marketing to Turkiye. If it is the UK, UK assembly work is drying up. I think that there are only about 10 aircraft left to assemble. Very different to the F-16 assembly line backlog.

umm..How should I put it? The Germans unblocking the Eurofighter is only a matter of Turkey willing to pay the price (not talking about money). It is a bargaining chip for "them", just like how the F-16V deal was a bargaining chip for the Americans.

If Turkey agrees to those conditions like the Saudis did, the next day the German government is going to suddenly have a change of heart.

So I look at the EF issue as a question of not whether Germany is willing to supply it, but a question of whether Turkey is willing to pay the price for it.

Also want to add that I dont think the TurAF is that desperate for the Eurofighter. Very different situation than the F-16. The consortium should have been the ones desperate to sell. But national interest is not something the Euros put first. I mean, they know the J-35 is entering export markets around 2025. The KAAN should arrive by 2035. At that point, everyone the Americans like is buying the F-35, everyone the Americans hate is buying the J-35, the rest will pick the KAAN and the eurocanards are basically dead at that point. So i think this 'we cant sell you the EF because Erdo is a dictator and we like our kurds' isn't very smart.

 

[boredaf]

Turkish s400 is active and protecting the Turkish capital against nuclear ballistic missiles, stealth air planes, cruise missiles with nukes that can come when we all are sleeping. It is located in Mürted airport and it is very much active all the time. There are pictures of the radar spinning next to barracks in the airport. It is not 100% but definitely better than nothing or having some fully American controlled F35s with fake Turkish flag plastered over it.

Istanbul, other cities are still all open to nuclear attacks. Range:

Turkey’s S-400 “Growler” Goes Operational Near Ankara - T-Intelligence

Turkey’s newly acquired S-400 air defense system (NATO Reporting name SA-21 Growler) is now operational at Mürted Akinci airfield, an Israeli geospatial company claims. Satellite imagery, which was shared by ImageSatIntel (iSi) on Twitter, shows the S-400 battery components in an operational...

t-intell.com

Lmfao, S400 couldn't even protect Russians from Ukrainian drones or munitions from hitting hundreds of kms inside Russia, but sure, it'll protect us from "nukes" and "stealth planes". Whatever helps you sleep I guess.

S-400 was the single biggest foreign policy blunder this government made over 20 years, and that is saying a lot since they made quite a lot of those. Buying the first one was stupid, even suggesting us to buy a second one should make people candidates for free health screening for head injury.

 

[Sai]

True. But the plan was for F-35s to replace F-4s and for TF-X to replace F-16s. Leaving a fleet of only F-35 + TFX.

Now you are planning to go for F-16Vs, Eurofighters, F-35s, TFX. Also the Ozgur, Hurjet, Kizilelma and Anka-3.

This is definitely going to cause a massive financial crisis in the TF-X and TF35K programs.

Only TFX and F-35? The operational costs of fifth-generation fighter jets are very high. You need 4th Gen for missions that don't require stealth.

 

[DBdev]

Lmfao, S400 couldn't even protect Russians from Ukrainian drones or munitions from hitting hundreds of kms inside Russia, but sure, it'll protect us from "nukes" and "stealth planes". Whatever helps you sleep I guess.

S-400 was the single biggest foreign policy blunder this government made over 20 years, and that is saying a lot since they made quite a lot of those. Buying the first one was stupid, even suggesting us to buy a second one should make people candidates for free health screening for head injury.

I said it is not 100%. No system is. Depends on the threat. On average modern air defenses are %80 effective against ballistic missiles and around %90 for air breathing targets except hypersonic cruise missiles which are almost unstoppable.

We can not trust s400 any more than we can trust F35.

These are all our historic enemies. Like I said westerners took away Patriots immediately and were begging Putin to nuke Turks just a few years ago when Russian TVs were discussing where to nuke in Türkiye first.

If a nuclear war breaks out in the next 24 hours both will end up nuking us. I guarantee it. Each nuke that we can't intercept means around 1 mega deaths (1 million deaths).

So getting rid of s400 is what's stupid. Even after Siper becomes capable against ICBMS we should keep it as an alternative. No freaking F35 could help us against an ICBM and American hardware is as susceptible to trojan horse circuits that can be disabled by hidden logic gates they can trigger with a remote signal. SURPRISE!!!

So even if they give us all the F35 and patriot codes you cant trust anything made by always creeping, spying on entire world, Americans.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/russia-isnt-going-run-out-missiles