TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Ryder]

Among all of them Türkiye has the friendliest relations with Russia and what they suggest is to ruin it.
A good example of what goes through an idiots mind.

Yes and no

 

[Zafer]

Are you serious?

What is there to not understand, asking to ruin a relationship for the unworthy sake of someone else is even beyond idiotic and is simply madness.

 

[TheInsider]

There is good news about the Hava-SOJ project. Most of the problems regarding the Canadian embargo are ironed out via workarounds and alternatives. The project is expected to gain pace.

 

[Combat-Master]

There is good news about the Hava-SOJ project. Most of the problems regarding the Canadian embargo are ironed out via workarounds and alternatives. The project is expected to gain pace.

From recent footage, the nose radomes were changed out. Which is nice, howeverno major changes to the body from what I could see from the footage.

 

[MADDOG]

From recent footage, the nose radomes were changed out. Which is nice, howeverno major changes to the body from what I could see from the footage.
View attachment 41225

Looking good!

 

[TheInsider]

I see some sensors under the tail. One square and one rectangle antennae.

 

[legionairre]

What a logistical nightmare.

French planes, Russian and American planes.

I cannot imagine what a nightmare it is.

Logistics aside, I doubt their airborne effectiveness guided by a handful of Hawkeyes. Watch out for Egypt’s plans to purchase new tanker planes and reconnaissance satellites, these could be a real game changer, by far…

 

[Manowar]

I see some sensors under the tail. One square and one rectangle antennae.

It's not HavaSoj airlpane. It's Atr-72 MPA.

 

[TheInsider]

It's not HavaSoj airlpane. It's Atr-72 MPA.

True. The tail extension was not there so it looked to me as Bombardier 6000.

 

[Kansei]

somebody should text them through twitter, Greece can send ther S300 and all of the Russian systems to

Trust me, we know. People are already angry that the government started shit with Russia by sending Kalashnikovs, and now Mitsotakis has shit the bed by saying that Russian defence systems aren’t necessary for Greece’s defence while other top officers of the military came out saying that this is BS and that the S-300 and Tor M1 are absolutely essential.Regardless of if we were out of parts already or Mitsotakis just caused the shortage, we do now need a replacement for them. Even if we exchanged them with Patriots, they are notoriously faulty and don’t have the same specs and range as other Russian systems. It would create a gap in our defence grid until the American systems come and basically flushing our relations with the Russians for the sake of the U.S Foreign policy that has never once rewarded us for doing what was in their interest and not ours.

 

[Kansei]

If I can ask, what’s the point of the Özgur upgrade? I read statements from Turkish officials stating that its better than the vipers but then by requesting vipers doesn’t that imply that özgur failed? Unless it has something to do with a thing I read that only block 30s can get upgraded since you guys were only provided with the source code of the 30s which is different on the later models.

 

[I_Love_F16]

If I can ask, what’s the point of the Özgur upgrade? I read statements from Turkish officials stating that its better than the vipers but then by requesting vipers doesn’t that imply that özgur failed? Unless it has something to do with a thing I read that only block 30s can get upgraded since you guys were only provided with the source code of the 30s which is different on the later models.

Yeah Turkiye can only upgrade their F16 block 30 right now. In parallel Turkiye asked the US for upgrades to use the money they poured in the F35 program.

 

[Oublious]

If I can ask, what’s the point of the Özgur upgrade? I read statements from Turkish officials stating that its better than the vipers but then by requesting vipers doesn’t that imply that özgur failed? Unless it has something to do with a thing I read that only block 30s can get upgraded since you guys were only provided with the source code of the 30s which is different on the later models.

No, we are using the money we paid for the F35. Beside that if they don't give the kits we will go modernize block30 above. Head of the SSB was clear, if it comes that far we will modernize all the blocks. Latest interview mentioned about the radar of Ozgur project is being installed to Akinci drone, so it goes within scope of time.

 

[Kansei]

No, we are using the money we paid for the F35. Beside that if they don't give the kits we will go modernize block30 above. Head of the SSB was clear, if it comes that far we will modernize all the blocks. Latest interview mentioned about the radar of Ozgur project is being installed to Akinci drone, so it goes within scope of time.

Yeah but how? You guys only have access to the B30 source code and from what I know the software in the later block differs drastically unless you mean hacking it which sounds unrealistic and illegal

 

[Oublious]

Yeah but how? You guys only have access to the B30 source code and from what I know the software in the later block differs drastically unless you mean hacking it which sounds unrealistic and illegal

Source code? We are not talking about code but Turkish computers and software on a Viper. Block 30 is using Turkish computers with software. It is illegal if American don't modernize it.

 

[Kansei]

Source code? We are not talking about code but Turkish computers and software on a Viper. Block 30 is using Turkish computers with software. It is illegal if American don't modernize it.

Completely forgot about the national mission computer.Still though don’t get why you requested your f-16s being upgraded instead of requesting other equipment you need and upgrading all the F-16s at home so the money and and tech development could stay at home

 

[Yasar_TR]

Completely forgot about the national mission computer.Still though don’t get why you requested your f-16s being upgraded instead of requesting other equipment you need and upgrading all the F-16s at home so the money and and tech development could stay at home

Ozgur means totally free! Hence all mission computers and flight computers are of Turkish origin in Ozgur. There is a time limit on F16s, before being able to interfere with their upgrades locally. Block 30 planes are all past beyond this time limit. Some block 40 planes too are and gradually becoming to be free to be tampered with. But it is going to take time. By the time block 50s are free it will be post 2027. If we can get the ball rolling with the newest 80 planes, the local modernisation will go hand in hand and all F16s will be upgraded before 2027.
Also it will show us how good an ally we have that can support us, whilst utilising the monies spent on f35.

 

[TheInsider]

Turkiye can and will upgrade all of its F-16s. Other than the AESA radar everything is currently ready. The prototype fighter is actively flying and qualified with Özgür modernization package other than the radar. That is said multiple times by the president of the SSB. So why Turkiye asks for viper mod? Because it is political. Turkiye doesn't want to leave the table first when dealing with the US. We know viper deal will be rejected by the congress so Americans will have no excuse to say anything when we move on our own. We will show their double standarst, again, to the whole world and when the time comes we will say dude we did everything we could you guys rejected us not the other way around.

İsmail Demir: Özgür, F-16’ları özgürleştirme projesi – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

“Özgür ABD’den bağımsız yürütülen bir proje. Onun için genel anlamıyla bir anlamadan bahsedemeyiz. Ama Özgür projemiz başarıya ulaştı ve uçaklara entegre edilmeye başladı. Ama tabi F-16’lar birkaç block şeklinde gidiyor. Bir block F-16’ya entegrasyon işlemine başladık. Diğer blocklar için geliştirmedeki bazı ufak tefek farklar ve entegrasyon süreci de başlayacak. Özgür adı üstünde F-16’larımızı özgürleştirme projesi. F-16’ların bağımlılıktan kurtulma, çeşitli sistemlerin artık yerli sistemlerle adapte edilmesi, uygulanması ve ona uygun şekilde kullanılması anlamına geliyor. Uçağı bir anlamda kendi malınız, kendi sisteminiz yapmakla alakalı bir adım diye biliriz.

Turkish modernization is better than the Viper Mod because of its new GaN based radar. APG-83 SABR is not a good radar at all.

This is written by the officers of Hellenic Air Force Academy.

https://www.matec-conferences.org/articles/matecconf/pdf/2019/53/matecconf_easn2019_04001.pdf

Direct Quote from the Paper.

2.3 Case study for the F-16: upgrading the MSA radar with an AESA radar

Currently, the latest MSA radar on the F-16 is the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-68(V)9. According to open sources, the radar range against a standard target of 1 m² RCS is assumed to be approximately 38 nautical miles (n.m.). The required input power is 5.6 kVA, as was stated in relevant brochures, as well as other sources [12]. The aircraft provides cooling to the radar by air flow, which has been reported to be relatively marginal with respect to the requirements of this radar [12]. The cooling capacity of the aircraft for the radar is expected to be less than 5.6 kW. For the sake of discussion, one can assume 5.5 kW. Following the APG-77 (F-22), the APG-80 (F-16E/F Block 60), as well as the APG-81 (F-35), Northrop Grumman developed the Scalable Agile Beam Radar or SABR in the mid2000s, as a possible upgrade option for the existing F-16 fleet, designed to be installed without making any major modifications to the aircraft. Later, it was designated as AN/APG-83. According to the manufacturer, it integrates within the F-16’s current structural, power and cooling constraints without Group A aircraft modification. It can be assumed that the APG-83 has the same number of TRMs as the APG-80, i.e., 1020 TRMs. Considering GaAs TRMs of 10W each, the peak power is of the 10 kW class. Liquid cooling is used inside the radar, in order to remove the waste heat from the antenna array and the other radar parts, transferring the heat to the aircraft’s air cooling system. Apart from the antenna array, the radar comprises other LRUs (Line Replaceable Units), such as the Receiver Exciter Processor (REP) and the radar rack assembly, including the elements of the internal cooling system. Assuming that these two LRUs produce roughly 1 kW and 0.5 kW of heat, respectively, the upper limit on the antenna array waste heat is approximately 4 kW, in order not to exceed 5.5 kW in total. Considering the available GaAs TRM technology available at the time the SABR was being developed, it can be assumed that the PAE is in the order of 35% and the overall T/R module efficiency is estimated at 20%. Therefore, the average transmitted power can be up to 1 kW, in order not to exceed 4 kW of waste heat, and the duty cycle cannot exceed 10%. This limitation has dire consequences on the detection range, since the average transmitted power is a crucial factor. In this way, the F-16E/F Block 60 was designed taking into account the cooling requirements of the APG-80, providing liquid cooling to the radar and allowing for better performance. Actually, most aircraft featuring an AESA radar provide liquid cooling

This is the end result. APG-83 is only slightly better than APG-68(V)9 and loses some performance at some angles.

Aselsan is designing a new cooling system and a new power delivery system for its GaN-based F-16 radar. That means we will push more power to the radar via the more efficient GaN TRM modules. Aselsan radar is expected to have "at least" %50 more range against fighter-sized targets than APG-83. EW resistance is the biggest gain going from APG-68(V)9 to APG-83.

 

[Kansei]

Ozgur means totally free! Hence all mission computers and flight computers are of Turkish origin in Ozgur. There is a time limit on F16s, before being able to interfere with their upgrades locally. Block 30 planes are all past beyond this time limit. Some block 40 planes too are and gradually becoming to be free to be tampered with. But it is going to take time. By the time block 50s are free it will be post 2027. If we can get the ball rolling with the newest 80 planes, the local modernisation will go hand in hand and all F16s will be upgraded before 2027.
Also it will show us how good an ally we have that can support us, whilst utilising the monies spent on f35.

So is the time limit like a contract thing ? would be happy to read a paper about it or something

 

[Kansei]

Turkiye can and will upgrade all of its F-16s. Other than the AESA radar everything is currently ready. The prototype fighter is actively flying and qualified with Özgür modernization package other than the radar. That is said multiple times by the president of the SSB. So why Turkiye asks for viper mod? Because it is political. Turkiye doesn't want to leave the table first when dealing with the US. We know viper deal will be rejected by the congress so Americans will have no excuse to say anything when we move on our own. We will show their double standarst, again, to the whole world and when the time comes we will say dude we did everything we could you guys rejected us not the other way around.

İsmail Demir: Özgür, F-16’ları özgürleştirme projesi – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

Turkish modernization is better than the Viper Mod because of its new GaN based radar. APG-83 SABR is not a good radar at all.

This is written by the officers of Hellenic Air Force Academy.

https://www.matec-conferences.org/articles/matecconf/pdf/2019/53/matecconf_easn2019_04001.pdf

Direct Quote from the Paper.

This is the end result. APG-83 is only slightly better than APG-68(V)9 and loses some performance at some angles.

Aselsan is designing a new cooling system and a new power delivery system for its GaN-based F-16 radar. That means we will push more power to the radar via the more efficient GaN TRM modules. Aselsan radar is expected to have "at least" %50 more range against fighter-sized targets than APG-83. EW resistance is the biggest gain going from APG-68(V)9 to APG-83.

That sounds nice and all but I dont know how accurate it is. From what I know that paper is from 2014, way before the finished stage of the product and it assumes that there will be a cooling bottleneck. I guess the only way to truly find out for Greece is when the first block 70 arrives, the USAF has been holding back the program for like 2-3 years now with basically the Greek end of the side having finished the first plane and have been sitting doing nothing because they have to wait for the U.S to do their part of the job which has been requesting tests upon tests upon tests in the factory test base for years now, with the result being that the estimate for the first Viper's arrival being at the end of 22.