TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Yasar_TR]

Turkey, may talk about considering Russian and Chinese planes. But will never buy any, unless decides to leave the Western block for good.
Even the TFX we are developing is designed around Western technologies.
For the stop gap situation and as rightfully mentioned by both @Lool and @TR_123456, to recover some of the monies we have spent on F35 project, f16V70 is a logical solution. The 80 kits we would like to buy for the blocks of f16s is chosen instead of our own Özgür modernisation kits due to costlier local parts because of difficulty in integrating our systems to the corresponding blocks and presumably the contractual responsibilities involved.
Earlier blocks are comparatively easier for Özgür modernisation.

As a stop gap the only viable alternative to the f16V70 option, seems to be the Ef2000. But it is a much costlier alternative.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

I personally witnessed the F35A flying.

I have to say this. This plane is gorgeous when you see it in person.

The F-35 is like marmite.
You either love it or hate it.

 

[Yasar_TR]

The F-35 is like marmite.
You either love it or hate it.

I would say; Wait till it is powered by XA100 adaptive cycle engine developing in excess of 45000lbf with afterburner and around 30000bf dry thrust, delivering 30 percent better range, 25 percent better fuel efficiency, 20 percent greater acceleration, and twice the thermal management capabilities over the F135, plus furnished with an all new GaN based Aesa Radar.
Then everyone will love it.

 

[Ecderha]

I personally witnessed the F35A flying.

I have to say this. This plane is gorgeous when you see it in person.

This is military product have only one purpose to defend/attack you enemy.
Above said, we have to keep in mind that F-35 is product of usa.
Adding reality which we need to include systematic trend of many, many hostile action made by usa against Turkiye.

This F-35 is toy horse for Turkiye. I will say that when Turkiye try to use it on Military conflict which usa do not approve it.
This gorgeous thing will reveal it True face -> expensive shit which can not be used

 

[Mehmed Ali]

This is military product have only one purpose to defend/attack you enemy.
Above said, we have to keep in mind that F-35 is product of usa.
Adding reality which we need to include systematic trend of many, many hostile action made by usa against Turkiye.

This F-35 is toy horse for Turkiye. I will say that when Turkiye try to use it on Military conflict which usa do not approve it.
This gorgeous thing will reveal it True face -> expensive shit which can not be used

In reality even in the case of the conflict with absolutely anybody it wouldn't be possible to use. It wasn't, from day one, intended to be weapon for Turkiye at all. 3 months able to function without support ( not my words but words of Singapore air command) , tracked every second by " concerned for well being " Lockheed Martin. Only pseudo independent northern countries are in love with that , Italy , Spain , UK and Germany have Tayfoons , Switzerland has Gripens , Korea KF21 and even Poland plans to join KF program . Also Japan at least has few F2 .

 

[Baryshx]

In reality even in the case of the conflict with absolutely anybody it wouldn't be possible to use. It wasn't, from day one, intended to be weapon for Turkiye at all. 3 months able to function without support ( not my words but words of Singapore air command) , tracked every second by " concerned for well being " Lockheed Martin. Only pseudo independent northern countries are in love with that , Italy , Spain , UK and Germany have Tayfoons , Switzerland has Gripens , Korea KF21 and even Poland plans to join KF program . Also Japan at least has few F2 .

Scandinavian countries are pushing the limits in terms of patheticness. But it is ironic that they consider themselves very democratic, free, etc.

 

[Nilgiri]

The F-35 is like marmite.
You either love it or hate it.

Guess I'm odd man out then heh.... as I am almost perfectly neutral towards it.

It's merely a vessel that exists and has absorbed what it needs to (from the funding positive pressure) from the development chains of this tech era.

i.e an inevitable product. It could have gone better, it could have gone worse. The bulk of hands played in poker etc.

What I love are high stakes stuff that pushed the frontier truly....with high element of risk and reward....that orient and set these development chains and tech trees for the bulk stuff to grow behind.

 

[Cenkcnk]

Iran purchased 24 su35S's, every neighbour country are upgrading its air fleet, f-35's, rafales, Su-35's etc, And I don't trust ours that they are planning accordingly.

 

[Zafer]

At this rate of development in 5 years the only countries that will still match Turkish Air Force will be US, CN and possibly RU.

 

[Nutuk]

Non of them are a match for Turkiye.

We should stop thinking in short terms with stopgaps. Put full power into development of Hurjet, Kizilelma, ANKA-3, TFx, this is the way!


I don't really get why the Ozgur upgrade is this much delayed, money should be poured into this instead of chasing the US congress

 

[Afif]

At this rate of development in 5 years the only countries that will still match Turkish Air Force will be US, CN and possibly RU.

In 5 years USAF and PLAAF still would be a vast overmatch for TurAF.

Don't get me wrong, what Turkey is doing, no doubt is very exceptional.

However, if you guys keep it real, Turkey it would be more hungry and determined for improvement.

 

[Nutuk]

In 5 years USAF and PLAAF still would be a vast overmatch for TurAF.
It is Turkey that is trying to catch up right?

Don't get me wrong, what Turkey is doing, no doubt is very exceptional.

However, if you guys keep it real, Turkey it would be more hungry and determined for improvement.

Catcing up with US or China is out of question.

China is 1.5bln people
US is 52 states (each richer than Turkiye) with 350mln people

There is no way that we can catch up with our current economy. We ain't trying to match up with US or China, we try to be the dominating power in our neighborhood

 

[Afif]

Catcing up with US or China is out of question.

China is 1.5bln people
US is 52 states (each richer than Turkiye) with 350mln people

There is no way that we can catch up with our current economy. We ain't trying to match up with US or China, we try to be the dominating power in our neighborhood

You are right, there is no catching up with US or China.
I meant catching up with technology development in general.

 

[Nutuk]

You are right, there is no catching up with US or China.
I meant catching up with technology development in general.

Catching up with technology is easier.

Not that we can be frontrunners in tech (also this is economy and population mass related), but todays interconnection, internet, international education possibilities makes catching up with technology easier.

 

[Zafer]

In 5 years USAF and PLAAF still would be a vast overmatch for TurAF.

Don't get me wrong, what Turkey is doing, no doubt is very exceptional.

However, if you guys keep it real, Turkey it would be more hungry and determined for improvement.

I only mean in terms of air force technology level. China is struggling with engine technology and the US fighters are becoming outdated. So there is an opportunity to be a front runner in this field.

We do not need to compete with the US or CN in economy or overall military power.

 

[Sanchez]

US operates 300 F-35s, 180 F-22s, and hundreds of F-15s. Most of their operational F-16s are not at a worse level than ours. They are still dominating in the drones field as most of what they do is not exported. Stuff like MQ-25 and XQ-58 is only a portion of what they have available.

China makes their jets and locally built hundreds of J-10s(completely serviceable aircraft and a match for F-16s) and J-20s, they are also rapidly increasing their footprint in big drones.

Akıncı while a lovely platform, is a match for an enlarged Reaper and Kızılelma is nothing more than tech demonstrator at this stage with maybe a decade on its way to become an actual thing. Tech and software needed to make it an actual platform is immense. The aircraft itself is only a tiny portion of the equation.

We do not yet even have the engines for MMU's 4th prototype and are dependent on US' goodwill to supply them. No paper is yet signed to develop the local engine needed for MMU block 20. No development yet exists for MMU's local engines. I'm not even adding the part where we have no idea if the US will sell the engines for the first LRIP batches for MMU.

It is great to have a vision for the future and our dreams to hold onto, but we are not catching up to either one of them anytime soon. Selling TB2s or underpowered Aksungurs to SEA nations is good business but it is just business, it doesn't win the conflicts we are thinking about having in the next decades. Call it dost acı söyler.

I don't really get why the Ozgur upgrade is this much delayed, money should be poured into this instead of chasing the US congress

Modifying another's platform is hard work and we only have the source codes for B30s. All F-16s we have were bought via FMS and US has the option to not allow us to modify them, which is surprisingly something I don't see mentioned about nearly enough. Why was T70s Aselsan avionics were delayed which is one of the reasons why we will have less than projected platforms now if US congress doesn't extend the license is somewhat related to all this.

 

[Nutuk]

Modifying another's platform is hard work and we only have the source codes for B30s. All F-16s we have were bought via FMS and US has the option to not allow us to modify them, which is surprisingly something I don't see mentioned about nearly enough. Why was T70s Aselsan avionics were delayed which is one of the reasons why we will have less than projected platforms now if US congress doesn't extend the license is somewhat related to all this.

Even if only the block 30's than still there is no satisfactory reason given by SSB why all these delay occurs. Even upgrade of blk 30 will take 1-2 years, why it is taking this long to start Ozgur integration is beyond me

 

[Zafer]

It is great to have a vision for the future and our dreams to hold onto, but we are not catching up to either one of them anytime soon.

What is so inconceivable about matching China or US in fighter technology: The moment the indigenous TFX engine flies is the moment we match CN in fighter technology and the moment first TFX goes on a mission powered by a Turkish made engine is the moment we match American fighter technology. At that time the F35 eats dust and the F22 already a hair ahead. The shortcomings of the initial TFX engine can be compensated by the advantages of The TFX.

I bet that time will come in 5 years. TR Motor is already working on it albeit without a contract.

Kızılelma is nothing more than tech demonstrator at this stage with maybe a decade on its way to become an actual thing

Kızılelma is slated to hit serial production by the end of this year. It may take many more years to become fully autonomous but it is still ahead of all the competition already. Give it an engine like the TF6000 it will be a champion in a few years.

What I am saying is not impossible and is actually very likely.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Even if only the block 30's than still there is no satisfactory reason given by SSB why all these delay occurs. Even upgrade of blk 30 will take 1-2 years, why it is taking this long to start Ozgur integration is beyond me

Is the AESA radar for Ozgur ready ? I don’t think it is, that’s why the modernization program is taking so long.

 

[Rodeo]

Is the AESA radar for Ozgur ready ? I don’t think it is, that’s why the modernization program is taking so long.

The latest info we got on AESA was that it was supposed be delivered to BAYKAR in early January and we heard nothing from it since then. It might have already been delivered.