TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[I_Love_F16]

The latest info we got on AESA was that it was supposed be delivered to BAYKAR in early January and we heard nothing from it since then. It might have already been delivered.

Okay, now supposing it was actually delivered to Baykar, wasn’t it more logical and faster to test it on an actual F-16 instead of a drone ? Assuming the modernization program is an absolute necessity ?

 

[Heartbang]

At that time the F35 eats dust and the F22 already a hair ahead.

TFX will be better than the F22 with its smarts. Call it a 35+22= F-57 if you will. Shame Russians took that naming logic and utterly squandered it.

 

[Heartbang]

Okay, now supposing it was actually delivered to Baykar, wasn’t it more logical and faster to test it on an actual F-16 instead of a drone ? Assuming the modernization program is an absolute necessity ?

The idea was to speed up the testing process by using a platform like Akinci to fly uninterrupted.

 

[what]

The idea was to speed up the testing process by using a platform like Akinci to fly uninterrupted.

Testing on a drone is probably more cost-effective, too.

 

[YeşilVatan]

TFX will be better than the F22 with its smarts. Call it a 35+22= F-57 if you will. Shame Russians took that naming logic and utterly squandered it.

Bro that's kidding yourself. F-22 will be the best fighter jet well into the 2030s. Do you really think Americans wouldn't upgrade their super-duper fighter jet since 90s?

MMU will be a wonder and change the game, but not by being the best. It will be mediocre at first, and gradually one of the best. The real problem for our adversaries will be that we wouldn't be builled by proxy warfare anymore. We mostly achieved this objective with drones already, but our adversaries still have cards up their sleeve (like arming their Greek vassals). This plane is about that. If we can manage to sustain obvious military dominance against our neighbours, the west has no chance to either confront us head-on or negotiate. Direct confrontation is a horrible idea for them because we'd be like Iran but ten times worse for them (or way, way worse; North Korea). Their other choice is that they would have to negotiate things as more or less equals which is anathema to those bunch of hypocritical hyenas that's why they do embargoes.

This is why MMU is our technological war of independence. "TFX can smesh F-22" is really far-fetched.

 

[Heartbang]

"TFX can smesh F-22" is really far-fetched.

In a purely kinematic sense, you're right. That sucker flies like no other. Best we can do is to match it.
But F22 can't have the smarts of the F35. They can and will try as hard as they can, they won't be able to. That's just the way its been designed.
TFX has the upper hand like that.

 

[Nutuk]

Guys something else, suppose the US declines F16 sale how do you guys regard the Pakistani JF17?

A "Turkified" version of JF-17, with Aselsan radar, Aselpod, Ozgur mission computer, avionics, communications, self protection system and of course Turkish missiles and bombs?

Kinda like empty shell JF-17 with Turkish electronics and missiles.

Just give it a thought as stopgap until TFx in numbers

 

[boredaf]

Guys something else, suppose the US declines F16 sale how do you guys regard the Pakistani JF17?

A "Turkified" version of JF-17, with Aselsan radar, Aselpod, Ozgur mission computer, avionics, communications, self protection system and of course Turkish missiles and bombs?

Kinda like empty shell JF-17 with Turkish electronics and missiles.

Just give it a thought as stopgap until TFx in numbers

No way. Not only that is Chinese plane but also it is not even close to F-16 block 70 or Eurofighter in any way.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Guys something else, suppose the US declines F16 sale how do you guys regard the Pakistani JF17?

A "Turkified" version of JF-17, with Aselsan radar, Aselpod, Ozgur mission computer, avionics, communications, self protection system and of course Turkish missiles and bombs?

Kinda like empty shell JF-17 with Turkish electronics and missiles.

Just give it a thought as stopgap until TFx in numbers

That would still take 2 years to configure, test etc. in a best case scenario. But if everything goes south, I believe it would be a solid alternative actually.

 

[Nutuk]

No way. Not only that is Chinese plane but also it is not even close to F-16 block 70 or Eurofighter in any way.

True, but we could make it more up to date with Turkish avionics, radar etc.


I mean as thought we should be open for this.

US kicked us out of the F35 program, is everything but clear on the sale of F16.

I did not make a study out of it and am just dropping the idea of JF-17 as discussion starter. That said being fully aware that we are still dependent on US engines regarding to Hurjet and TFx.

I personally am totally against the idea of EF2000 (which is replacing dependency on the US with dependency on EU, a no go IMHO)

 

[boredaf]

True, but we could make it more up to date with Turkish avionics, radar etc.


I mean as thought we should be open for this.

US kicked us out of the F35 program, is everything but clear on the sale of F16.

I did not make a study out of it and am just dropping the idea of JF-17 as discussion starter. That said being fully aware that we are still dependent on US engines regarding to Hurjet and TFx.

I personally am totally against the idea of EF2000 (which is replacing dependency on the US with dependency on EU, a no go IMHO)

It is lighter/smaller than F-16 and iirc it's payload is 3 or 4 tons lesser than F-16.

And sanctions and roadblocks we face right now would be nothing compared to what would happen if we went with a Chinese plane, otherwise I'd much rather we go after FC-31 instead of F-16 or Eurofighter. But JF-17 is not an answer to any of our questions.

However, we do need an interim solution because we are at best a decade away from our own jets taking to the skies in meaningful numbers. Unlike you, I'd much rather deal with UK and get Eurofighters, if they are willing to do the leg work for us in taking care of any problems with the purchase. And I think they might be simply because they need partners, now that they fucked themselves by leaving the biggest economic zone on the planet.

 

[Heartbang]

Guys something else, suppose the US declines F16 sale how do you guys regard the Pakistani JF17?

A "Turkified" version of JF-17, with Aselsan radar, Aselpod, Ozgur mission computer, avionics, communications, self protection system and of course Turkish missiles and bombs?

Kinda like empty shell JF-17 with Turkish electronics and missiles.

Just give it a thought as stopgap until TFx in numbers

If it came to that kind of a solution I'd prefer it we do that with Flankers.

 

[Nutuk]

Well you know the EF is not only dealing with England, just saying.

 

[YeşilVatan]

If it came to that kind of a solution I'd prefer it we do that with Flankers.

Technically, yes. Politically, suicide move. Russia is the current great evil. Also, our geostrategic interests are conflicting.

Plus they bombed our soldiers.

 

[boredaf]

Well you know the EF is not only dealing with England, just saying.

That's why I said if they are willing to help us with that. Just about 10 days ago there was a meeting regarding Eurofighter among the defence ministers from countries in EF program and discussions was about upgrade to EF and exports. They might be more open to exports to bring the cost down and UK might be willing to help us with others since they need not only the money but also more trade partners of all kinds.

 

[boredaf]

If it came to that kind of a solution I'd prefer it we do that with Flankers.

Worst idea ever, not just because of Russia's current position in global stage but also because they are barely able to build enough plane for themselves. And I'd rather keep flying our F4's than trust their build quality.

 

[Quasar]

Guys something else, suppose the US declines F16 sale how do you guys regard the Pakistani JF17?

A "Turkified" version of JF-17, with Aselsan radar, Aselpod, Ozgur mission computer, avionics, communications, self protection system and of course Turkish missiles and bombs?

Kinda like empty shell JF-17 with Turkish electronics and missiles.

Just give it a thought as stopgap until TFx in numbers

our problem will be always the same for a while... American,Russian or Chinsese engine...

if engine was not a problem guess instead of JF 17 we may even come up with a Hürjet on steroid as a stop gap solution.

 

[Afif]

Whether it's f16 or EF you are not getting anything before 2027 and delivery will very well continue in to 2030s. So, in my opinion given the circumstances it is better to focus on KE and modernization of other F-16s blocks with ozgur.
Besides, this year you guys just lost 10 percent of your GDP due to earthquake. Right now you can't just pull billions of dollars out of the nowhere.

 

[UkroTurk]

Guys something else, suppose the US declines F16 sale how do you guys regard the Pakistani JF17?

A "Turkified" version of JF-17, with Aselsan radar, Aselpod, Ozgur mission computer, avionics, communications, self protection system and of course Turkish missiles and bombs?

Kinda like empty shell JF-17 with Turkish electronics and missiles.

Just give it a thought as stopgap until TFx in numbers

The Chinese can produce high-end electronics currently.

if purchase didn't make Türkiye leave NATO,as stopgap solution, I would go for turnkey J10C with adaptation of Turkish missiles/weapons.
Because adaptation of Turkish AESA radar, mission computer, avionics would take too long. Don't forget we have MMU project.

Turkey to Drop Plans For F-16s: Chinese J-10C Fighters Hinted as Choice to Modernise Fleet

A member of the Turkish Presidency’s Security and Foreign Policies Council, Cagri Erhan, has announced that the country is expected to drop its requests to acquire

militarywatchmagazine.com

F-16 jetleri için J-10C geliyor! Türkiye'den dengeleri alt üst edecek hamle... | STAR

Eylül 2019 yılında ABD, Türkiye'nin S-400'leri almasını hazmedemeyerek F-35 programından çıkardı. Türkiye ise hemen akabinde F-16 programına başvurdu. Uzun süren müzakereler sonunda ABD Türkiye'yi sürekli oyaladı. Alternatif uçak arayışına giren Türkiye için Çin'in ürettiği J-10C savaş uçağını...

www.star.com.tr

J10c is superior then jf17.

 

[boredaf]

In the context of the latest discussion, you might like this radar scattering simulation comparison between F-35, Su-57 and J.20