TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Combat-Master]

I would take money first if possible. This is just salvaging deal.

It's a good compromise. That money wouldn't go far getting any other stop-gap fighter jet till TF-X comes into service.

 

[Manomed]

Like @Khagan1923 said Navy and Airforce still wants their F-35s

 

[Stuka]

Additional Information.

The F16 is only being offered in the Block 70/72 variants by Lockheed Martin.
F16s are going to be produced only in Greenville, South Caroline and the First F16 B70 will roll out here in 2022.

The Production Line is quite Full.
-> 140 F16s are for Bahrain, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Taiwan, and Croatia and the Philippines have been mentioned as customers.
-> 405 F16 Modernizations

Lockheed Martin’s backlog of F-16s (all for foreign military sales), as well as upgrades of 405 jets in foreign hands to the F-16V configuration won’t all be delivered until 2026, and the company anticipates more orders may be coming.

- The Process is quite complex and lengthy as well because FMS.
- So Turkey would have to wait at least till 2026 and for a sizeable delivery batch until 2027.

 

[Saithan]

Additional Information.

The F16 is only being offered in the Block 70/72 variants by Lockheed Martin.
F16s are going to be produced only in Greenville, South Caroline and the First F16 B70 will roll out here in 2022.

View attachment 33094

The Production Line is quite Full.
-> 140 F16s are for Bahrain, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Taiwan, and Croatia and the Philippines have been mentioned as customers.
-> 405 F16 Modernizations

Lockheed Martin’s backlog of F-16s (all for foreign military sales), as well as upgrades of 405 jets in foreign hands to the F-16V configuration won’t all be delivered until 2026, and the company anticipates more orders may be coming.

- The Process is quite complex and lengthy as well because FMS.
- So Turkey would have to wait at least till 2026 and for a sizeable delivery batch until 2027.

If LM wants any chance of further defence relations with Turkey they'll make use of our assembly line that was built for F16. Refusing so means LM loses a market.

 

[mulj]

It's a good compromise. That money wouldn't go far getting any other stop-gap fighter jet till TF-X comes into service.

If the return of money is out of the question, i would opt for some other equipment instead f16, something that you will not aquire by domestic efforts soon as you will air frames but usa is not that naive so you are right in that sense. Maybe i woUld insist on larger number of engines then air units in package, i suppose usa would not obiect that.

 

[Manomed]

So If they upgrade the 80 of them and buy 40 brand new this makes us having 120 Block 70s?

 

[CAN_TR]

Personally, totally against a scenario of F-16 Block70 as compensation, if such a deal is possible then please go for F-15.

 

[Manomed]

Personally, totally against a scenario of F-16 Block70 as compensation, if such a deal is a question the please go for F-15.

We have no background of using F-15 logistics lines will be a hell

 

[Cenkcnk]

why would it be hell? we are not going to use f-16's forever. we used many US planes so far from f-100's to F-5's and F-4's.
We will adopt quickly as Greeks adopted rafales

 

[Zafer]

I don't think either of them are reliable which is why I want our own engine to be delivered and use on all our products, failuing to using them is treason. imo.

And who will make it happen, the quintessential question.

 

[Saithan]

And who will make it happen, the quintessential question.

Didn’t we already have a turboprop for Hürkus ? But as I recall we are still using P&W.

And the same goes for Atak, we should have 4-8 T129 using TS1400 and fine tune it and such for when you need to do similar job on 629 and onwards.

Hürjet is excused as we haven’t reached that stage yet.

 

[Khagan1923]

Didn’t we already have a turboprop for Hürkus ? But as I recall we are still using P&W.

And the same goes for Atak, we should have 4-8 T129 using TS1400 and fine tune it and such for when you need to do similar job on 629 and onwards.

Hürjet is excused as we haven’t reached that stage yet.

The question is why SSB has not order the development of a militarized version of the TS-14000 from the early stages. Just as a Info this still has not been ordered. Our officials love waisting time and then whine that we face delays exactly because we have to wait for the same project that could have been ordered years ago.

It doesn’t matter if you think there is no use now for it. There might be later. And it gives you an indigenous of the shelf option for future projects (T-629).


But we love waisting time

There are other projects facing the same problems(G40, should have been ordered in 2019 instead there has been no progress and no demand by the navy and ssb for it even though we need it to replace ESSM)

 

[Cypro]

Claiming that the US is more reliable than the Russians is typical of the mandate mentality.
It can be said the other way around. The more reliable the USA, the more reliable it is in Russia.
I don't see any difference between the 2 of them. Some of our friends seem to have forgotten the Johnson letter during the Cyprus Peace Operation. "You cannot use the defense products you bought from the USA against GKRY". You must love(!) to hear such things from the USA. What are we going to do when we go to war with Greece? Are we going to burn the license agreement we got from the USA?

I also mentioned before that US is not reliable and they will certainly delay it for years..But at least!! F16 is a reliable platform where Turkey also have control over it, wherever it will be produced I am sure engines will be supplied by TEI or at least serviceable . F16 vs any Russian Junk, I will always choose F16, doesn't matter who is supplying.

And regarding Cyprus.. I see that like most Turkish Friends you are missing some historic information about Cyprus Issue and rely on media. First of all Johnson's Letter was in 1964, just 6 months after Greeks attacked Turks, Turkey immediately wanted to Land do US didn't like that idea and replied like they are the boss.. not surprising ( if you accept their money and free guns).. But even back than Turkey was offered to have small part of Karpasia as base (By UK and US) to provide security to Turks and Greeks rejected that ... so than Turkey bombed them in Erenkoy Battle. Never forget that during those years Turkey always threatened by Soviets too, Greeks were playing with the two sides to stay secure. AND Russians always supported their orthodox buddies, I don't trust them. For more insight check weapons transfer from US to Turkey between 1970 to 74.. Ships, cargo planes, transport helicopters everything you would need to do a landing.. and Peace Operation was a plan approved by US as well. Check US documents that they publish after 30 years, They knew the plan and map before Turkey Landed. But of course we didn't obey their plan and got more than approved... For embargoes I would say it has some other reasons behind it and USA didn't want to lose Greece so acted like Punishing Turkey for not withdrawing! because Turkey was not supposed to stay and divide but to restore the order and prevent Soviet influence. It is very hard to explain this to the people who are constantly influenced with same type of propaganda since they were kids but I know many soldiers and people who were in the field.. until 90s US personnel (CIA) has office inside MIT.

Nonetheless, I am not fan of US, EU or Russia! Russia was not different than those according to me so I would rather prefer a good equipment at least.

 

[Cypro]

I don't understand why people are always demonizing USA and West while praising Russians.. Just a year and half ago those so called friends bombed our Soldiers! They were helping PKK as much as US and Israel helped.. what makes them better than the US? And I think their equipment sucks.. keep money for R&D instead of wasting on them. But buying F16s is legit.. infrastructure is ready, parts etc. familiar reliable and accessible. I hope this deal would get approved as soon as possible!

 

[Successwill]

Lets hope our officials not send our jets to American soil for upgrade. I fear they wont return back. The US is unpredictable and unreliable.

I will roflmao if that happens

 

[Yasar_TR]

Lets hope our officials not send our jets to American soil for upgrade. I fear they wont return back. The US is unpredictable and unreliable.

I will roflmao if that happens

If memory serves, under FMS all F16 planes produced by Tusas, first goes to US then sold back to TurAF.
US means nearest US base to Turkey. So the plane after it is built at Tusas goes to a nearby US base and does a touch and go . Then returns back to Turkey.(in this case NAS Sigonella in Italy)

F-16.net - The ultimate F-16, F-35 and F-22 reference

www.f-16.net

With respect to upgrades it would all be done at Tusas, like the latest block 30 structural upgrades.

 

[Ravenman]

If the US rejects the updates and modernizing, could the buying of a cheap/classic plane be a option till our TFX rolls out the fabric?

Like:

- Saab 35 Draken (double deltawings)
- MiG-25 (fastest Russian jet)
- Sukhoi-24 (two pilots, seats side by side)

 

[Manomed]

If the US rejects the updates and modernizing, could the buying of a cheap/classic plane be a option till our TFX rolls out the fabric?

Like:

- Saab 35 Draken (double deltawings)
- MiG-25 (fastest Russian jet)
- Sukhoi-24 (two pilots, seats side by side)

Russian jets are garbage

 

[Abdelaziz]

The only reasonable solution is to go with the local f16 upgrade with
Aesa radar, EH/ED pods .. new avionics and mission computer .. besides the drones programm until tfx delivery .. on the other hand improving the air defence layers , radars and EW capability

 

[HTurk]

If the US rejects the updates and modernizing, could the buying of a cheap/classic plane be a option till our TFX rolls out the fabric?

Like:

- Saab 35 Draken (double deltawings)
- MiG-25 (fastest Russian jet)
- Sukhoi-24 (two pilots, seats side by side)

Please...Scandinavian equipment?! Burning the money makes more sense than counting on Swedish PKK fanboys and -girls. No reliability whatsoever. Haven't we learned nothing?

I'd rather buy from the French than the Swedish.