Navy Turkish Aircraft Carrier Project

Cabatli_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,360
Reactions
81 45,455
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Speaking at the launching ceremony of TCG-Istanbul , President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced that negotiations for the production of the domestic and national aircraft carrier started after TCG Anadolu .

Turkey to have the aircraft carrier has long been a controversial issue. Failure to take the F-35B to TCG-Anadolu seems to have strengthened the idea of an aircraft carrier.

The Turkish Navy has a ship with fighter jets, and air force support is on the agenda in regions where the Turkish Armed Forces is or is likely to operate. Especially in Libya, this need was understood more. When Turkey's geography is active in much more distant from Libya and will increase further this need to be considered.

The backbone of the Turkish Air Force consists of F-16 warplanes. It is possible to operate in Libya with F-16s, which are shorter than single-engine and twin-engine warplanes. However, a limited number of fighter jets can operate in Libya with air refueling 2-3 times. This is a situation that makes the operation difficult and the pilots. The National Combat Aircraft will be built with a twin engine. However, showing presence in countries across much longer distances from Turkey to Libya. It is possible that the situation in Libya nowadays will be experienced in Africa, maybe even in Pakistan and even more distant geographies.

For this reason, a modest aircraft carrier is now a requirement of the Turkish Naval Forces. If F-35B fighter planes could be purchased to TCG-Anadolu, this need would have been met at a certain level. With the production of TCG Trakya in addition to TCG-Anatolia, the air power requirement of the Turkish Navy would be met. However, the F-35B possibility is now almost impossible. Even if she got better relations to a certain place in Turkey will no longer want to stay connected to any country in such a big project.

Turkish Defense Industry researchers, enthusiasts, generally view the Turkish Navy to have an aircraft carrier. Two reasons stand out in this view. Turkey's defense budget and not be desirable to have a task force sufficient to protect an aircraft carrier.

From the words of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan who spoke at the TCG-Istanbul's landing ceremony, the Turkish Naval Forces will play a much more important role in the Turkish Armed Forces in the coming years. The concept of Blue Homeland is gaining importance and this situation is frequently expressed by the highest levels of the state. The events taking place gradually increase the importance of the navy. If we look at these developments, it can be predicted that larger budgets will be transferred to the Turkish Armed Forces and Turkish Naval Forces.

The other reason was the need for a task force to protect the aircraft carrier. The first ship of the Class I frigate project was launched. It has been announced that the other 3 ships will be completed by 2027. Private shipyards are expected to play a role in the construction of the other 3 ships. With such production, the Class I frigate project can be completed in a short time and military shipyards can start the construction of TF-2000 air defense destroyers.

Good news was given about the national VLS vertical throwing system project at the launching ceremony of TCG-Istanbul . National VLS will be used in TCG-Istanbul. Hisar and Göktuğ air-air missiles are expected to be used in warships. Gökdeniz CIWS is ready. National laser guns are also expected to appear on Turkish warships in the near future. Trench long-range air defense missiles are also expected to enter the inventory in the near future. MKE is working on domestic 76 mm and different navy gun systems. There are Ukrainian and UK alternatives for engines.

Considering the latest developments, localization projects, the expectation of allocating more shares to the defense budget, and the cost reductions that come with localization, it seems possible for the Turkish Navy to have a modest aircraft carrier in the near future. In addition, such a need has been formed.

The Turkish Shipbuilding Industry has now exceeded a certain stage. A modest aircraft carrier can be built with domestic facilities or with technical support from abroad, as in TCG Anadolu.

However, when it comes to an aircraft carrier, it is more about the fighter planes and warplane take-off systems that will be deployed on the ship rather than the ship.

The countries that can produce aircraft carrier-stationed warplanes in the world are the USA, France, Russia and China. China produced these aircraft with Russian technology. He only made take-off landing attempts with Tejas aircraft in India. It produced the past aircraft carrier-deployed Harier aircraft in England and has a very serious work share in the F-35B project. No country's aircraft carrier stationed in Turkey does not seem possible to buy fighter aircraft. built with Russian technology aircraft will not accept Turkey because of the country's bitter experience. If Turkey wants to have the aircraft carrier could be called on to produce its own aircraft.

It is not easy to produce aircraft carrier-based warplanes. However, it is not impossible. When developing the Turkey-Britain relations, considering such a project carried out by the UK's technical support. Britain is currently providing technical support to national combat aircraft.
mmu-1-300x189.jpg
National Combat Aircraft

An aircraft carrier can be developed over the national combat aircraft. In addition, Hürjet, which is expected to enter the inventory much earlier, can develop a limited-capability aircraft carrier-deployed warplane. It even provides technical background and experience in the Hürjet ship-based warplane project.

One of the most important systems for aircraft carriers is aircraft launch systems. Two types of aircraft launch systems are used in the world. CATOBAR and STOBAR.CATOBAR The process of launching the plane with a catapult. STOBAR is the system that helps take-off with an angled ramp and enables the aircraft to take off with its own engine power. The STOBAR system has disadvantages in terms of full load and take-off in bad combat conditions. For this reason, it can be said that it is not preferred.

mig-29k-vikramaditya-300x175.jpg

Mig-29K Take-off with STOBAR


In the CATOBAR system, the catapult that enables the aircraft to take off is powered by steam or electromagnetic systems. Only USA and France have aircraft carriers with CATOBAR system in the world. Steam-powered CATOBAR systems are supplied by the nuclear reactor. The electromagnetic system, on the other hand, provides take-off by using electrical energy.

f-18-300x199.jpg
Take Off with Steam CATOBAR

Many companies in Turkey working on electromagnetic cannon systems. With the knowledge gained from these studies, the launch system for the aircraft carrier can be developed. However, the USA is the only country that currently produces and uses this system. China is working on this project. It is a very difficult system to develop.

As a result, considering the current projects, it seems possible for the Turkish Navy to have an aircraft carrier in the near future. Considering the construction period of the TCG-Anadolu, it can be predicted that the ship and many systems stationed on the ship will be ready until an aircraft carrier is produced and delivered to the navy. 2030-2035'l year in Turkey may have an aircraft carrier.

Italian for Turkey as an aircraft carrier Cavour and Trieste ships, the French Charles De Gaulle ships and aircraft carriers in South Korea's aircraft carrier design may be similar in size to sample.

french-aircraft-carrier-charles-de-gaulle-r91-5-5555-300x189.jpg
French Aircraft Carrier Charles De Gaulle

 

Cabatli_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,360
Reactions
81 45,455
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
S. Korean Dokdo LHD converted to a light aircraft carrier codded as LPX-2

40000ton displacement

images
 

Khagan1923

Contributor
Messages
970
Reactions
14 4,147
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
S. Korea LPX-2

images

Old concept.

This is the final design of the LP-X II which is more a LHD than an actual Carrier, it will operate F-35B instead of F-35C.

Aircraft_Carrier_LPX_II-dc_d257.jpg


Turkey's only choice for a Carrier is a true carrier as we can't procure F-35B and there are no other STOVL Aircrafts in development for Turkey to buy.

One with an Ski-Jump would be cheaper to operate but that comes with big disadvantages. So the development of an Catapult system, preferably a electromagnetic launch system one like the one on the Ford-Class AC of the US, is a must to fully utilize a naval version of the MMU.

Most likely conventionally powered unless there is suprise.

Something in the size of the QE of the Royal Navy.

If the budget allows it. True aircraft carrie are money pits. Maintance alone will put constraints on the Navy's budget.
 

Khagan1923

Contributor
Messages
970
Reactions
14 4,147
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Italian Cavour aircraft carrier
Displacement: 30000 ton

C550-Cavour-06.jpg

Sadly these types of "AC" are not possible for us as they require STVOL Aircrafts.

I imagine if it hopefully happens decades from now it will be something like this

twq3vdmqnjx21.jpg


Proposed CATOBAR version of the QE Carrier. Better design, imo the brits made a mistake by going STOVL.

CATOBAR is the one on the bottom...
 

Cabatli_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,360
Reactions
81 45,455
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Old concept.

This is the final design of the LP-X II which is more a LHD than an actual Carrier, it will operate F-35B instead of F-35C.

View attachment 12745

Turkey's only choice for a Carrier is a true carrier as we can't procure F-35B and there are no other STOVL Aircrafts in development for Turkey to buy.

One with an Ski-Jump would be cheaper to operate but that comes with big disadvantages. So the development of an Catapult system, preferably a electromagnetic launch system one like the one on the Ford-Class AC of the US, is a must to fully utilize a naval version of the MMU.

Most likely conventionally powered unless there is suprise.

Something in the size of the QE of the Royal Navy.

If the budget allows it. True aircraft carrie are money pits. Maintance alone will put constraints on the Navy's budget.


I agree with you. Turkey need much bigger platform than Italian and S. Korean ACs. Turkey would operate F35B on two LHD but Embargo for F35 aircrafts forced us to change the course to build a true aircraft carrier instead of constructing second LHD. Noone will sell any VTOL and STOVL aircrafts or technology to Turkey in foresible future so It is for sure that Turkey will operate jet powered drones and Tf-X naval aircrafts. These aircrafts will need a relatively longer runway than the one on light aircraft carriers so Turkish AC will be more or less similar standards with UK Queen Elizabeth class.
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,241
Reactions
140 16,218
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Aircraft Carrier project for Turkey is, in my humble opinion unnecessary and way too expensive for us.
Cheapest aircraft carrier will cost way in excess of 4billion dollars to develop and put in to service. Never mind the maintenance costs involved. For a country like Turkey it is a luxury she can’t afford and can be no more than an indulgence.
Then there are the planes that need to be made to conform to sea conditions and the heavy usage conditions of the carrier. Totally new landing gears and strengthened main structure of the planes needed. So a totally different line of planes to maintain.
Why? So that Turkey can project it’s naval and aerial force over the oceans!!!
As it stands Turkish Airforce and Navy needs “heavy” investments to defend Turkish air space and Turkish waters first!
There is huge shortages of new 4++ and 5th generation planes in the current inventory. These need to be addressed first, if there are funds available !
There are shortages and weaknesses in Turkish naval forces; Airdefence frigates, fast attack crafts, airdefence destroyers, AIP subs are more urgently needed than a carrier. There are ships like Gabya class, Meko Yavuz class frigates and Burak class corvettes, that have gone past their sell by date by a big margin. These need to be renewed on top of what is also needed.
Currently Turkish navy does not even have ships to protect TCG Anadolu never mind to protect a carrier group. You need atleast 2 x airdefence destroyers, 2 x frigates, 2 x submarines and replenishment ships to form a protection bubble for a group.
Current aircraft carrier production messages can only be for political reasons. I can not see it happening.
(HMSQE2; a 5 billion pound ship. Owned by a country that had approximately 3 trillion dollar economy!)
Best aircraft carrier is mainland Turkey!
 
Last edited:

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,683
Reactions
7 7,389
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
75.000 tons
300 meters
two electromagnetic catapults
In water in 2028
We can make it
 

BordoEnes

Committed member
Messages
292
Reactions
2 868
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
75.000 tons
300 meters
two electromagnetic catapults
In water in 2028
We can make it

I dont think there was ever a doubt if we could, more so wether we should. An aircraft carrier is extremely expensive to maintain and crew. I dont think we should consider it until we have a working MMU that could be navalised if the need is there.
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,241
Reactions
140 16,218
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
75.000 tons
300 meters
two electromagnetic catapults
In water in 2028
We can make it
Yes we can build it. There is no doubt about that.
But can we furnish it with the right equipment? Can we protect it? Can we afford to keep it? Do we need it? Or do we need more ships and aircrafts before it? May be let us see how we manage with TCG Anadolu first!
 

mulj

Experienced member
Messages
1,989
Reactions
3,245
Nation of residence
Bosnia & Herzegovina
Nation of origin
Bosnia & Herzegovina
I agree with you. Turkey need much bigger platform than Italian and S. Korean ACs. Turkey would operate F35B on two LHD but Embargo for F35 aircrafts forced us to change the course to build a true aircraft carrier instead of constructing second LHD. Noone will sell any VTOL and STOVL aircrafts or technology to Turkey in foresible future so It is for sure that Turkey will operate jet powered drones and Tf-X naval aircrafts. These aircrafts will need a relatively longer runway than the one on light aircraft carriers so Turkish AC will be more or less similar standards with UK Queen Elizabeth class.woudn

I agree with you. Turkey need much bigger platform than Italian and S. Korean ACs. Turkey would operate F35B on two LHD but Embargo for F35 aircrafts forced us to change the course to build a true aircraft carrier instead of constructing second LHD. Noone will sell any VTOL and STOVL aircrafts or technology to Turkey in foresible future so It is for sure that Turkey will operate jet powered drones and Tf-X naval aircrafts. These aircrafts will need a relatively longer runway than the one on light aircraft carriers so Turkish AC will be more or less similar standards with UK Queen Elizabeth class.
Woudn't in theory jet powered drone need smaller platfrom for operation, is there option for consideration that air carrier would be all AI driven air platforms? I am not that smart just speculating if there could be repeated sucess of tb2 on much larger scale, "just tought for lunch"
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,683
Reactions
7 7,389
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I will start sketching if you guys don't mind.
How many planes should it carry 40? I will see.
I will need a carrier to display my flyers anyway.
 

CAN_TR

Contributor
Messages
1,474
Reactions
17 5,210
Nation of residence
Austria
Nation of origin
Turkey
For a aircraft carrier strike groups the Turkish combat fleet needs to be much bigger, we are not the UK or France who don't have any hostile neighbours, our geography is a little bit different.

If a AC is planned then i would guess that the combat fleet in our own waters needs to be at least as big as it's now, besides the "carrier strike group" of course.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,683
Reactions
7 7,389
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I dont think there was ever a doubt if we could, more so wether we should. An aircraft carrier is extremely expensive to maintain and crew. I dont think we should consider it until we have a working MMU that could be navalised if the need is there.
India goes to space at a fraction of the cost. If there is a will there is a way.
 
A

adenl

Guest
Best aircraft carrier is mainland Turkey!
LMAO:ROFLMAO:

Anyway, if the MMU is chosen as a carrier platform then I expect a CATOBAR carrier. I'm sure Turkey will be able to design and implement an electro-magnetic catapult system on a carrier by 2035 and perhaps even sooner.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BordoEnes

Committed member
Messages
292
Reactions
2 868
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
India goes to space at a fraction of the cost. If there is a will there is a way.

To be fair its mainly because the costs of personal in India is very cheap. The workers conditions and income are nowhere near that of Western country standards so naturally it doesnt require as much money to produce or make. You cant be a first world country and do things like rockets or aircrafts carriers cheaply. Turkey is a middle-income country (and has been stuck in the middle-income trap for a while now) so it might be able to get away with it short to medium term but certainly not long term.
 

CAN_TR

Contributor
Messages
1,474
Reactions
17 5,210
Nation of residence
Austria
Nation of origin
Turkey
With airbases on Cyprus and Libya we can reach nearly everything in the Mediterranean, so either Turkey has ambitions for power projection in the Indian Ocean/East Africa or it's just a prestige project.
 
D

dBSPL

Guest
Creating an effective (deterrent) carrier strike group & joint task force and keeping it as a leverage for national interests poses challenges far beyond the technical and industrial capabilities of a country. While it is very difficult even for other navies with decades of experience already, creation of task forces in this complexity structure and having deterrent level operational readiness will not be easy for Turkish Navy too.

Technical competence is just one aspect of this vision need it, the other main challenge is the doctrinal/strategical competence. Turkey has long been hoarding experience with TDGG(Turkish Naval Task Force). However, the joint operations of combined forces and the ability to projection this combined forces on a global scale will enter our lives with TCG Anadolu. We are at the very beginning of the road.

Beyond these platform competence and command capabilities: Foreign affairs and all other related state institue's supportive policies are required on global scale to cover high seas navy vision within the scope of a suitable structure and doctrins of the combined forces, especially the Navy. Even these are are not enough alone, and it is necessary to have an real economic strength and stability to bear all these huge and recurring costs.

Turkey's vision for aircraft carrier acquisition and operation capability must be linked to a grand strategy that should extends to Somalia, Qatar(and beyond) policies, even if it may seem very unrelated in essence. Obviously, we have to put forward one of the biggest challenges of the last century as a country. So this vision is unfortunately not as simple as it can be advertised by naming a drydock as Kızılelma.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom