TR Navy Turkish Navy|News & Discussions

[what]

TB2s can be in production for years and decades. If the F16 has been relevant in various iterations and upgrades for almost 50 years, 49 to be precise - why not TB2?. Not every country needs or can afford F35s or Kizilelmas or Anka 3s.

 

[Oublious]

TB2s can be in production for years and decades. If the F16 has been relevant in various iterations and upgrades for almost 50 years, 49 to be precise - why not TB2?. Not every country needs or can afford F35s or Kizilelmas or Anka 3s.

Indeed, maybe wheb TUSAS come with stronger and lighter engine, or Aselsan with lighter flir then Wescam. Ther are things that can bet better on the TB2.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1652237592585289731

The issue of purchasing Type 23 Class frigates remains on the agenda.

 

[boredaf]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1652237592585289731

The issue of purchasing Type 23 Class frigates remains on the agenda.

Calling Type 23's "junk" is completely ignorant comment. Those frigates would be some of our best ships at the moment and they still have a lot of years in their hulls as some of them are younger than our own. And, buying and refitting 3 of them would probably be cheaper than building 1 I-class ourselves.

I feel like a lot of these type of talk is coming from a point of inferiority complex, a desperate need to big up everything we do while shit talking everybody else, instead of approaching situations practically and realistically.

 

[Hepdert]

Calling Type 23's "junk" is completely ignorant comment. Those frigates would be some of our best ships at the moment and they still have a lot of years in their hulls as some of them are younger than our own. And, buying and refitting 3 of them would probably be cheaper than building 1 I-class ourselves.

I feel like a lot of these type of talk is coming from a point of inferiority complex, a desperate need to big up everything we do while shit talking everybody else, instead of approaching situations practically and realistically.

Some Sith Dark Lords can only be satisfied with American .It does not matter old, new, rotten, ragged as long as it's American.

 

[Ripley]

Calling Type 23's "junk" is completely ignorant comment. Those frigates would be some of our best ships at the moment and they still have a lot of years in their hulls as some of them are younger than our own. And, buying and refitting 3 of them would probably be cheaper than building 1 I-class ourselves.

I feel like a lot of these type of talk is coming from a point of inferiority complex, a desperate need to big up everything we do while shit talking everybody else, instead of approaching situations practically and realistically.

Dude, It has been discussed a while back in the forum when it first came out.
I’m on the opposing front and no they are not junks but not at desired level with the future TN fleet structure either. Their only superior feature as I can gather is their sonars.
Other than that, there is not a single electronic warfare unit in common with Turkish fleet vessels so how they will carry themselves with other ships in the envisaged TN combat group missions is very doubtful. And we dream of advanced and sophisticated fleet operations for our navy.

And another thing; I for a while entertainEd the notion that the British had put them on the negotiation table as part of a lump sum deal where some form of cooperation or even some joint venture involved along with Typhoon and RR/Kale partnership and thus give them as tokens to sweeten the deal (very cheap or even maybe free!)
I was even worried that we were to lose an opportunity of partnership on many levels with an advanced country like Britain in some cases our pushing IP rights issue to them in TFX engine development for instance.

At this particular moment however I am seriously thinking that the Britain is not as willing as I presumed and their agenda is more of a direct sales approach be it on Type43 or Typhoon T1, even C130J.

Currently I see a Britain who is quite willing to dump her old stuff on us rather than a strategic partnership and as far as I’m concerned there’s nothing to be excited about it.

 

[Ripley]

Some Sith Dark Lords can only be satisfied with American .It does not matter old, new, rotten, ragged as long as it's American.

Well I can promise you that it definitely matters for Turkey now when stuff is “old, new, rotten, ragged as long as it's American”

First of all, It’s been years since we purchased anything from the USA or Germany for that matter. As a matter of fact, at one American defense site, it was mentioned that it had been the first time Turkey was to purchase a military system from the US after more than two years! We all know that it was not our doing but the choices of our respective allies.

Secondly, Turkish defense eco system is so close getting in par with our Western allies that we have the option of not buying their garbage anymore.

On a lighter note, Had I been a Sith Lord the plan I would devise for the Turkish industry, civil and military, dominating the world would make Palpatine look like a Boy Scout

 

[boredaf]

Dude, It has been discussed a while back in the forum when it first came out.
I’m on the opposing front and no they are not junks but not at desired level with the future TN fleet structure either. Their only superior feature as I can gather is their sonars.
Other than that, there is not a single electronic warfare unit in common with Turkish fleet vessels so how they will carry themselves with other ships in the envisaged TN combat group missions is very doubtful. And we dream of advanced and sophisticated fleet operations for our navy.

And another thing; I for a while entertainEd the notion that the British had put them on the negotiation table as part of a lump sum deal where some form of cooperation or even some joint venture involved along with Typhoon and RR/Kale partnership and thus give them as tokens to sweeten the deal (very cheap or even maybe free!)
I was even worried that we were to lose an opportunity of partnership on many levels with an advanced country like Britain in some cases our pushing IP rights issue to them in TFX engine development for instance.

At this particular moment however I am seriously thinking that the Britain is not as willing as I presumed and their agenda is more of a direct sales approach be it on Type43 or Typhoon T1, even C130J.

Currently I see a Britain who is quite willing to dump her old stuff on us rather than a strategic partnership and as far as I’m concerned there’s nothing to be excited about it.

UK sold 3 of these ships to Chile for £135 million, including maintenance, clean up before the sale and training. As I said, we can buy and upgrade 3 of them with our own systems probably for cheaper than building 1 I-class frigate and would be quicker as well. Not instead of our own national ships, but as an addition while we keep building new ones. They have 32 cell VLS, 8 anti-ship missiles, torpedoes and pretty damn good sonar and some of them only went into service in early 2000s, they are not that ancient they are about the same age as most of our own frigates.

If it is a good deal and they can be refitted and get into service quickly there is almost no downside to increasing the number of warships we have while we build our new ships to necessary numbers.

 

[uçuyorum]

The only relevant possibility I think, which is really just a stretch, is if there was some imminent war threat that required hunting down nuclear subs in black sea or whatever and we needed to quickly obtain these ships because other nations can't really have their own fleet there so they'd be willing to sell them to us for cheap, and UK has been very vocal about opposing Russia. But seriously do we really need these?

 

[Anmdt]

Dude, It has been discussed a while back in the forum when it first came out.
I’m on the opposing front and no they are not junks but not at desired level with the future TN fleet structure either. Their only superior feature as I can gather is their sonars.
Other than that, there is not a single electronic warfare unit in common with Turkish fleet vessels so how they will carry themselves with other ships in the envisaged TN combat group missions is very doubtful. And we dream of advanced and sophisticated fleet operations for our navy.

And another thing; I for a while entertainEd the notion that the British had put them on the negotiation table as part of a lump sum deal where some form of cooperation or even some joint venture involved along with Typhoon and RR/Kale partnership and thus give them as tokens to sweeten the deal (very cheap or even maybe free!)
I was even worried that we were to lose an opportunity of partnership on many levels with an advanced country like Britain in some cases our pushing IP rights issue to them in TFX engine development for instance.

At this particular moment however I am seriously thinking that the Britain is not as willing as I presumed and their agenda is more of a direct sales approach be it on Type43 or Typhoon T1, even C130J.

Currently I see a Britain who is quite willing to dump her old stuff on us rather than a strategic partnership and as far as I’m concerned there’s nothing to be excited about it.

If we look at Navy's desk there is a lot more that most of us won't be satisfied by seeing. We better ignore some of them that has no chance of proceeding, like acquisition of Type-23 for an active duty role.

Let's recall Navy once tried to reboot B-class and now retiring them one by one, and planning to get Hisar class.

PS. Type 23's are junk since british won't be offering the sensor - sonar suite on golden platter. Some of these systems will be stripped off.

 

[Hepdert]

Well I can promise you that it definitely matters for Turkey now when stuff is “old, new, rotten, ragged as long as it's American”

First of all, It’s been years since we purchased anything from the USA or Germany for that matter. As a matter of fact, at one American defense site, it was mentioned that it had been the first time Turkey was to purchase a military system from the US after more than two years! We all know that it was not our doing but the choices of our respective allies.

Secondly, Turkish defense eco system is so close getting in par with our Western allies that we have the option of not buying their garbage anymore.

On a lighter note, Had I been a Sith Lord the plan I would lay for the domination of Turkish industry, civil and military, would make Palpatine look like a Boy Scout

I am Look Skiwater.I can sense Sith Dark Lords across the Galaxy.Commonly they act as Empire's emissaries.Long live New Republic.Phuck Old and New Empires and all their fan boys.Rabbit hole çok su götürür.Everything has a exact moment to be!

Well I can promise you that it definitely matters for Turkey now when stuff is “old, new, rotten, ragged as long as it's American”

First of all, It’s been years since we purchased anything from the USA or Germany for that matter. As a matter of fact, at one American defense site, it was mentioned that it had been the first time Turkey was to purchase a military system from the US after more than two years! We all know that it was not our doing but the choices of our respective allies.

Secondly, Turkish defense eco system is so close getting in par with our Western allies that we have the option of not buying their garbage anymore.

On a lighter note, Had I been a Sith Lord the plan I would lay for the domination of Turkish industry, civil and military, would make Palpatine look like a Boy Scout

Than The Force be not with you!

 

[Nutuk]

I thought we'd be over taking old junk from other countries, we have I-class, Dearsan F-142 and still look at British retirees.

Makes me sick!

 

[Fairon]

Also

If the Brits really insistsing to attach Type23's to any kind of deals and at this point I believe they are doing this to hurt our naval defence industry(if the request made by them), we should buy them and sink them as soon as they enter our national waters.

We have lots of weapons to test, it will be a good exercise.

 

[Blackeyes90]

Also

If the Brits really insistsing to attach Type23's to any kind of deals and at this point I believe they are doing this to hurt our naval defence industry(if the request made by them), we should buy them and sink them as soon as they enter our national waters.

We have lots of weapons to test, it will be a good exercise.

British Economy is shrinking after the brexit and now after the covid and Russian Attack on Ukraine. they are bleeding out money big time. Right now they need to get more funds and the mean time they wanna lose old hardware. So that is exactly what they are doing!

 

[Ripley]

Also

If the Brits really insistsing to attach Type23's to any kind of deals and at this point I believe they are doing this to hurt our naval defence industry(if the request made by them), we should buy them and sink them as soon as they enter our national waters.

We have lots of weapons to test, it will be a good exercise.

If that is the case, i e putting them in the bag as part of a lump sum deal that would have involved some level of strategic partnership, then yeah, I’d swallow that sugar coated stuff happily but the impression I get now is that they just wanna sell stuff.

Don’t quote me on it, though. Only my personal observations.

The veteran members at the forum can give us more insight on those negotiations.

 

[Nutuk]

British Economy is shrinking after the brexit and now after the covid and Russian Attack on Ukraine. they are bleeding out money big time. Right now they need to get more funds and the mean time they wanna lose old hardware. So that is exactly what they are doing!

I understand the British, but do not understand our own navy

 

[Ripley]

I understand the British, but do not understand our own navy

Looking at it From TN perspective, the first thing, top of my head, I can think of is that they really might be lacking some specific surface platforms

 

[Hepdert]

I understand the British, but do not understand our own navy

It is clear that these ships are reflections of much larger negotiations and much larger calculations.
One of the larger part is Aircraft Carrier.
The much larger part is the global conflict between Rotschild and the Pentagon (Rockefellar and the Committee of 300). Don't you ever think about who is paying for the unexplained inflow of money into the country?

 

[Sanchez]

As we literally have no info on whether this is part of a grander cooperation or sale between UK and TR, we can't really comment on them.

But, if they are still talking about this between closed doors months later it was first brought forward, we have to take into account that the navy might be actually interested in them I think.

Navy so far, mostly had a plan on locally built ships. They also have a vision for the future as we know and Milgem projects take an oversized role in that vision. Why then are they interested in 20 year old British ships we have no experience in whatsoever? Maybe that the readiness levels of early G Class ships are indeed worse than feared and as TF-2000 is not on the horizon for any time soon, maybe 8-10 years for at least 2 ships, they want to replace the early Gs.

I Class ships will replace the older Mekos in 3 years time, keeping the number at 16. Is it that some Gs ran their service life and we are out of spares to keep a fleet of 8 ships serviceable? Cannibalizing the older ones would allow for the other 4 be kept in a fighting condition for more than a decade but this would lower our frigate force from 16 to 12 which is unacceptable.

Don't really like this and the costs are something, but there must be a reason for the interest.

 

[Fairon]

As we literally have no info on whether this is part of a grander cooperation or sale between UK and TR, we can't really comment on them.

But, if they are still talking about this between closed doors months later it was first brought forward, we have to take into account that the navy might be actually interested in them I think.

Navy so far, mostly had a plan on locally built ships. They also have a vision for the future as we know and Milgem projects take an oversized role in that vision. Why then are they interested in 20 year old British ships we have no experience in whatsoever? Maybe that the readiness levels of early G Class ships are indeed worse than feared and as TF-2000 is not on the horizon for any time soon, maybe 8-10 years for at least 2 ships, they want to replace the early Gs.

I Class ships will replace the older Mekos in 3 years time, keeping the number at 16. Is it that some Gs ran their service life and we are out of spares to keep a fleet of 8 ships serviceable? Cannibalizing the older ones would allow for the other 4 be kept in a fighting condition for more than a decade but this would lower our frigate force from 16 to 12 which is unacceptable.

Don't really like this and the costs are something, but there must be a reason for the interest.

Ordering same amount of F142's are much better solution than buying Type23's. Operational readiness times probably be the same. (around 2-3 years). Moneywise it shouldn't be too different since we replace almost everything on the Type23's anyway.

I know Navy wants to use their own designs but buying ships that are almost old as Yavuz class shouldn't be preferable than buying ships from another Turkish company.