TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Yasar_TR]

Sortie!!!
This is some machine!!
2500km range
1000km/hr speed (0.81mach)
550kg MTOW
150kg of this MTOW, is load.
(So it leaves 400kg for the structure’s weight and fuel.)

SOM-J is about the same weight. (~500kg) and has a warhead of 140kg. Travels at 0.9 Mach But has a range of 275km.

On top of all this SOM-J is launched from air. Hence should have range advantage.
Sortie is taking off from ground.

Roketsan should ask these guys how this is done.

Edit:
Even if it is flying at higher altitudes most of the way it still doesn’t add up. SOM-J flies good portion of it’s flight at higher altitude before it goes lower.

 

[Radonsider]

Sortie!!!
This is some machine!!
2500km range
1000km/hr speed (0.81mach)
550kg MTOW
150kg of this MTOW, is load.
(So it leaves 400kg for the structure’s weight and fuel.)

SOM-J is about the same weight. (~500kg) and has a warhead of 140kg. Travels at 0.9 Mach But has a range of 275km.

On top of all this SOM-J is launched from air. Hence should have range advantage.
Sortie is taking off from ground.
Roketsan should ask these guys how this is done.

Keep in mind that SOM-J is designed to be small and VLO, this limiting some aerodynamic aspects

 

[Yasar_TR]

Keep in mind that SOM-J is designed to be small and VLO, this limiting some aerodynamic aspects

I can understand what you are saying. But that doesn’t justify 10 times range advantage.
Also remember that nearly 10% of fuel is burnt during take off by jet engines.

 

[Lool]

I can understand what you are saying. But that doesn’t justify 10 times range advantage.
Also remember that nearly 10% of fuel is burnt during take off by jet engines.

According to the promo, it can have a resuable booster engine
May this explain the range advantage?

 

[Anmdt]

I can understand what you are saying. But that doesn’t justify 10 times range advantage.
Also remember that nearly 10% of fuel is burnt during take off by jet engines.

Sortie takes off by rocket-booster and optimized to fly from point A to B, not terrain hugging, not sea skimming not terrain-navigating, not searching and preparing for engagement on target at right angle with a burst of fuel: thus it can be optimized for that flight. This is how some 3rd world countries introduces cheap cruise missile with jaw-dropping ranges and they keep bragging about without any actual cruise missile features. 275 km is the effective range that missile can fulfill its duty as a cruise missile with all possibilities combined (also note the range restriction due to the foreigner engine)

However, i liked sortie if they can pull it out, that can definitely find some use to deliver certain payloads.. like anything weighting around 150kg and fitting to the payload bay. Or loiter for SIGINT-COMINT, EW etc.

 

[Profchaos]

Sortie!!!
This is some machine!!
2500km range
1000km/hr speed (0.81mach)
550kg MTOW
150kg of this MTOW, is load.
(So it leaves 400kg for the structure’s weight and fuel.)

SOM-J is about the same weight. (~500kg) and has a warhead of 140kg. Travels at 0.9 Mach But has a range of 275km.

On top of all this SOM-J is launched from air. Hence should have range advantage.
Sortie is taking off from ground.

Roketsan should ask these guys how this is done.

Edit:
Even if it is flying at higher altitudes most of the way it still doesn’t add up. SOM-J flies good portion of it’s flight at higher altitude before it goes lower.

Exactly. In the tolga ozbek video the guy try to sound like they have huge expertiese and say that they have expertiese in solid fuel rocket engines and other stuffs. He says these without pointing out that they plan to use an unefficient turbojet. These guys are planning to rip some money from someone. Mark my words.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Sortie takes off by rocket-booster and optimized to fly from point A to B, not terrain hugging, not sea skimming not terrain-navigating, not searching and preparing for engagement on target at right angle with a burst of fuel: thus it can be optimized for that flight. This is how some 3rd world countries introduces cheap cruise missile with jaw-dropping ranges and they keep bragging about without any actual cruise missile features. 275 km is the effective range that missile can fulfill its duty as a cruise missile with all possibilities combined (also note the range restriction due to the foreigner engine)

However, i liked sortie if they can pull it out, that can definitely find some use to deliver certain payloads.. like anything weighting around 150kg and fitting to the payload bay. Or loiter for SIGINT-COMINT, EW etc.

If the booster they are talking about is this contraption under the bottom, it can only give it initial off the land take off speed. The plane still has to climb and overcome gravity. As well as take off using 9-10% of fuel, landing uses 5% of fuel too. So the cruising has to be done with the remaining 85% of fuel.
According to Safran, the TR40 engine uses 120kg/h/kN/h
PBS’s site gives the same fuel consumption for their 1.5 KN engine.

Taking what you say about excessive optimisation of flight parameters as starting point, then, this plane can do nothing else but go from A to B by more or less sniffing the fuel to reach that 2500km range. Any deviation from that would mean not achieving their targets.
Still I find the figures over optimistic.

 

[Agha Sher]

Baykar had a production rate of 1 Akinci per month in 2021 and delivered a total of 6 units to Turkey.
In 2022, Baykar has so far offically delivered 1 Akinci to Turkey over a 7 month period.

What happened to the other 6?

Options:
1. Production rate seriously down-scaled in order to meet TB2 demand? (somewhat likely)
2. Secretly delivered 6 Akinci to Azerbaijan, which is probably preparing for round two with Armenia in the coming weeks/months.

What do you think?

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Baykar had a production rate of 1 Akinci per month in 2021 and delivered a total of 6 units to Turkey.
In 2022, Baykar has so far offically delivered 1 Akinci to Turkey over a 7 month period.

What happened to the other 6?

Options:
1. Production rate seriously down-scaled in order to meet TB2 demand? (somewhat likely)
2. Secretly delivered 6 Akinci to Azerbaijan, which is probably preparing for round two with Armenia in the coming weeks/months.

What do you think?

Two very plausible hypotheses.
Although the first one is more likely, adding to that the short time left to introduce the TB3 and the first flight of Kizilelma.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Baykar had a production rate of 1 Akinci per month in 2021 and delivered a total of 6 units to Turkey.
In 2022, Baykar has so far offically delivered 1 Akinci to Turkey over a 7 month period.

What happened to the other 6?

Options:
1. Production rate seriously down-scaled in order to meet TB2 demand? (somewhat likely)
2. Secretly delivered 6 Akinci to Azerbaijan, which is probably preparing for round two with Armenia in the coming weeks/months.

What do you think?

I’ve read somewhere that Baykar intends to start the export of Akinci in 2023 because they are firstly meeting the Turkish Armed Forces demands.

 

[Huelague]

If they want bayraktars the russians should handover the blue prints for the s70 ucav from sukhoi.

I would prefer engine technology.

 

[Agha Sher]

I’ve read somewhere that Baykar intends to start the export of Akinci in 2023 because they are firstly meeting the Turkish Armed Forces demands.

That's correct. Two points.

1. During the 2020 war, many TB2s were also delivered on an urgent basis (unknown to the public)
2. Why would Azeri pilots already have finished their training now, if they are going to wait at least 6 months for the aircraft?

 

[I_Love_F16]

That's correct. Two points.

1. During the 2020 war, many TB2s were also delivered on an urgent basis (unknown to the public)
2. Why would Azeri pilots already have finished their training now, if they are going to wait at least 6 months for the aircraft?

I’m not sure, but I think it’s a normal procedure. Firstly, you train pilots and maintenance personnel and when they finally receive the aircrafts they can already operate it.

Take the T-129 Atak for example. The Philippine Air Force announced on 22 May 2021 that they sent pilots and maintenance crew to undergo training in Turkiye. TAI delivered the first two T-129 to the Philippine on 6 April 2022, so nearly 1 year after the training began.

 

[Agha Sher]

I’m not sure, but I think it’s a normal procedure. Firstly, you train pilots and maintenance personnel and when they finally receive the aircrafts they can already operate it.

Take the T-129 Atak for example. The Philippine Air Force announced on 22 May 2021 that they sent pilots and maintenance crew to undergo training in Turkiye. TAI delivered the first two T-129 to the Philippine on 6 April 2022, so nearly 1 year after the training began.

Correct, but the deliveries of T-129 were delayed significantly. Here, Azeris already finished training. Will they go home and sit 6-9 months before they can start working on Akinci?

 

[Fuzuli NL]

I would prefer engine technology.

Russia can produce very powerful engines but they're still not sophisticated and technologically behind western engines.

 

[Radonsider]

Russia can produce very powerful engines but they're still not sophisticated and technologically behind western engines.

Bette than ours at least

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Bette than ours at least

I think you mean they exist, therefore better than non-existent engines. Well, The Russians have been in this for a very long time, yet they still haven't introduced significant modifications when it comes to modern engines. I've spoken to many ex-pilots in the Luftwaffe and they all have said that the MiG-29s which were taken over from East Germany after the unification, despite being manufactured a lot later than the Phantoms, they always had engine problems and constant leaks from them.
Once our engine industry matures, it will rival the western ones.

 

[Zafer]

Bette than ours at least

We haven't made our engines yet, we are yet to see what we are made of in that department.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Russia can produce very powerful engines but they're still not sophisticated and technologically behind western engines.

You are 100% correct. They are stuck in time of Soviets. Their engines’ annular combustion sections are a good deal shorter than the western equivalents and they have a centrifugal nozzle . This, although improves combustion envelope of the engine, it causes their engines to give out black smoke from their nozzles. It also causes fuel injection difficulties and restrict further developments. In short, the engine is small, with high power output, hence fuel consumption is high, so black smoke will be seen at the nozzle.
We don’t really want this tech when we are geared up to produce western tech engines.

 

[Huelague]

Russia can produce very powerful engines but they're still not sophisticated and technologically behind western engines.

Of course, but their knowledge can help us to grow up, with our experience in western technology. Insane combination